I think he smokes Peyote :grin:
SO, Whats your thoughts on the JB Case Video?
- Thread starter ykndoit
- Start date
I think he smokes Peyote :grin:
I checked it out. JB drops a cue, multiple times, through a tube which appears to be at a height even higher than the case drop. He then shows how different combinations of lids are damaged. Unless I missed it again, he still doesn't show how his case would fair in the drop test he used on Jack's case. He also never shows any damage to the pin on the cue, which he dropped multiple times.
If JB claims that the cue would be damaged, shouldn't he show the damage, if in fact any damage occurred during testing?
IMHO, all of this testing is much ado about nothing.
First of all, I would never drop my case from that height.
Anyone who does not use joint protectors is a fool and doesn't care about their cues.
JB's case may have a more protective interior, but is it really needed or is it overkill? After multiple drops, he never showed any damage to the cue. I certainly wouldn't drop my case and cues from that height once, let alone multiple times.
On a final note, JB keeps saying he is not bashing JJ. If that is true, why isn't he including any other top level custom cases in his tests?
A brass pin might bend, an ivory joint might crack but one thing it did show was a piece of leather helped out a bunch and the cheap foam worked well too when it was thicker. I am just wondering why not throw the f@$&ing warning out the window Jack and just make a couple dollars in upgrades, new interior, extra padding top and bottom and your case will be the nuts in looks and protection?
Yeah, and it might rain today.
I will ask you again what damage did the cue suffer as a result of this test?
You don't have an answer because the test is meaninless and inconclusive.
I checked it out. JB drops a cue, multiple times, through a tube which appears to be at a height even higher than the case drop. He then shows how different combinations of lids are damaged. Unless I missed it again, he still doesn't show how his case would fair in the drop test he used on Jack's case. He also never shows any damage to the pin on the cue, which he dropped multiple times.
If JB claims that the cue would be damaged, shouldn't he show the damage, if in fact any damage occurred during testing?
IMHO, all of this testing is much ado about nothing.
First of all, I would never drop my case from that height.
Anyone who does not use joint protectors is a fool and doesn't care about their cues.
JB's case may have a more protective interior, but is it really needed or is it overkill? After multiple drops, he never showed any damage to the cue. I certainly wouldn't drop my case and cues from that height once, let alone multiple times.
On a final note, JB keeps saying he is not bashing JJ. If that is true, why isn't he including any other top level custom cases in his tests?
If you watched the video and paid attention it shows his combo in his cases in the test. I agree that no one plans on dropping there case but stuff happens, set it on a table someplace and it gets knocked off or something. Better to be safe then sorry I would think especially if your a traveler and it gets thrown around by baggage handlers. :grin:
Condolences
My condolences to you for your loss.
Several members that I speak to or PM with privately have had their own tragedies as have I, and it brings a lot of this into perspective.
Things do happen all the time.
Peace and good Karma to you
Ted
My condolences to you for your loss.
Several members that I speak to or PM with privately have had their own tragedies as have I, and it brings a lot of this into perspective.
Things do happen all the time.
Peace and good Karma to you
Ted
I checked it out. JB drops a cue, multiple times, through a tube which appears to be at a height even higher than the case drop. He then shows how different combinations of lids are damaged. Unless I missed it again, he still doesn't show how his case would fair in the drop test he used on Jack's case. He also never shows any damage to the pin on the cue, which he dropped multiple times.
If JB claims that the cue would be damaged, shouldn't he show the damage, if in fact any damage occurred during testing?
IMHO, all of this testing is much ado about nothing.
First of all, I would never drop my case from that height.
Anyone who does not use joint protectors is a fool and doesn't care about their cues.
JB's case may have a more protective interior, but is it really needed or is it overkill? After multiple drops, he never showed any damage to the cue. I certainly wouldn't drop my case and cues from that height once, let alone multiple times.
On a final note, JB keeps saying he is not bashing JJ. If that is true, why isn't he including any other top level custom cases in his tests?
~~ BINGO~~ Step up here and get your free leather shaft burnisher.
stop the assault!
Okay i have no dog in this fight,but why does JB have to knock an old pro like Jack.He is a pioneer in case making and about to retire in the next couple of years.He lives in a modest home and does all his cases by himself.J.B. seems to run a production shop and thats ok but you dont knock someone else to try to make yourself look better.
Each ones cases speak for themselves and the consumers will decide.
This bashing has to stop.Its just not professional.
Okay i have no dog in this fight,but why does JB have to knock an old pro like Jack.He is a pioneer in case making and about to retire in the next couple of years.He lives in a modest home and does all his cases by himself.J.B. seems to run a production shop and thats ok but you dont knock someone else to try to make yourself look better.
Each ones cases speak for themselves and the consumers will decide.
This bashing has to stop.Its just not professional.
Someplace it might be raining right now and someplace there might be a cue being damaged in one of your cases.
You think by improving the protection on the interior cases that John wins or something, but the truth is your customers win and you win by not having to deal with someone getting a cue damaged and you paying to have it fixed.
Oh and one more thing about your sig line, you copied Jay Flowers and just modernized and refined his design IMO. People can just look at pictures of both if someone will post them up and they will know where you got your design from. It would be like me doing a cover of Elvis and then you do a cover of Elvis but I did it first and I complain about you copying me. This is my last post for this stuff, Jack your too stubborn and John your obsessed with this and it seems to have consumed you but your made some valid points. Good day gents. :wink:
P.S. Not smoking anything just sleep deprived. :boring2:
P.S. Not smoking anything just sleep deprived. :boring2:
Speaking of sig lines. Do you think yours makes any sense or do you just want everyone to think your a wise guy with the NY accent.
I personally think that this subject is like taking a microscope to something like PC vs. Mac or Pepsi vs. Coke
There is an unlimited number of possibilities and circumstances where one product can be represented in both positive and negative ways. It reminds me of election time where you are bombarded with TV commercials where one politician is bashing the other with those ridiculous negative ad campaigns.
Personally, I think the video was clouded with emotion. It is clear because of the nervous energy and lack of focus felt during presentation. John knows in his heart what he is doing is wrong. People never make good decisions and perform well under clouded emotion. Also, the video was scattered all over the place and was without focus even though it did cover some key points. It also conveniently left out some important key points, like damage to the cues, and demonstration of a JB case or other top case makers for that matter. At times, it reminded me of a slick infomercial where one product was compared to another creatively and cleverly showing the downfalls of one product in areas that really weren't necessary.
The purpose of an informational or educational video is to provide the most factual information on the presented topic covered in the least amount of time possible with the least amount of distraction. I was somewhat irritated by watching the video. The image and level of respect I had for John Barton and his intellect has been stained with this crap. This case war BS is doing nothing but making both case makers look bad, and for what reason? To prove that mine is better than yours? Put your product out there, and let the chips fall where they may. That is how it's supposed to be. In case that wasn't clear enough, let the work speak for itself, and let the consumer do the bragging or criticizing for you.......... and more importantly, Grow up!
I think people are smart enough to make up their own minds when it comes to cue cases. I don't believe it has to be all this complicated. You don't have to have that much protection unless you are traveling extensively or are simply a careless person. Pool players in general, especially the experienced ones know how to take care of their stuff......... period.
They have nice stuff, and take care of it. It's that simple.
No cue case is going to cause your cue to be damaged unless you are careless about it. If you go driving down a bumpy road, that is your fault. If you check your case through baggage and don't secure your cues in the case properly, knowing that your case is getting tossed around, that is your fault. If you leave your cue case on the table with the pins up, case either open or closed, and it gets tipped over from four feet no matter who tips it over, that is still your fault for leaving it like that. How can you blame something like that on the case maker? That is so ridiculously ignorant, it makes my both a$$ cheeks itch at the same time.
There is a percentage that something careless will most likely happen and that is what JB seems to be about. There are those who will prevent carelessness as well as appreciate fine craftsmanship, and I believe that is what a Justis case appears to define.
Most people who have nice cues also have joint protectors as well. I would assume those who are going to spend the money on a nice Justis case would also have a nice cue and would thus have the brains to either put a joint protector on that cue, or have good enough judgement to leave the case and/or cues so that they have the lowest chance of careless damage happening.
As far as the pin going in one direction or the other, the reason Jack tells us to store the cue that way is because that is the way we carry the case. We don't carry the case upside down. As far as dropping the case, who in the hell is going to let that happen? Who in the hell is going to shake their case like that? If you are traveling and forsee that your cues will be shaken that much, wrap some padding around them. It is called common sense.
I think for people to be shown that kind of footage is somewhat demeaning to both the consumer and Jack Justis and also insults people's intellect. This shows just how much Jack Justis' success is getting to John Barton.
There is an unlimited number of possibilities and circumstances where one product can be represented in both positive and negative ways. It reminds me of election time where you are bombarded with TV commercials where one politician is bashing the other with those ridiculous negative ad campaigns.
Personally, I think the video was clouded with emotion. It is clear because of the nervous energy and lack of focus felt during presentation. John knows in his heart what he is doing is wrong. People never make good decisions and perform well under clouded emotion. Also, the video was scattered all over the place and was without focus even though it did cover some key points. It also conveniently left out some important key points, like damage to the cues, and demonstration of a JB case or other top case makers for that matter. At times, it reminded me of a slick infomercial where one product was compared to another creatively and cleverly showing the downfalls of one product in areas that really weren't necessary.
The purpose of an informational or educational video is to provide the most factual information on the presented topic covered in the least amount of time possible with the least amount of distraction. I was somewhat irritated by watching the video. The image and level of respect I had for John Barton and his intellect has been stained with this crap. This case war BS is doing nothing but making both case makers look bad, and for what reason? To prove that mine is better than yours? Put your product out there, and let the chips fall where they may. That is how it's supposed to be. In case that wasn't clear enough, let the work speak for itself, and let the consumer do the bragging or criticizing for you.......... and more importantly, Grow up!
I think people are smart enough to make up their own minds when it comes to cue cases. I don't believe it has to be all this complicated. You don't have to have that much protection unless you are traveling extensively or are simply a careless person. Pool players in general, especially the experienced ones know how to take care of their stuff......... period.
They have nice stuff, and take care of it. It's that simple.
No cue case is going to cause your cue to be damaged unless you are careless about it. If you go driving down a bumpy road, that is your fault. If you check your case through baggage and don't secure your cues in the case properly, knowing that your case is getting tossed around, that is your fault. If you leave your cue case on the table with the pins up, case either open or closed, and it gets tipped over from four feet no matter who tips it over, that is still your fault for leaving it like that. How can you blame something like that on the case maker? That is so ridiculously ignorant, it makes my both a$$ cheeks itch at the same time.
There is a percentage that something careless will most likely happen and that is what JB seems to be about. There are those who will prevent carelessness as well as appreciate fine craftsmanship, and I believe that is what a Justis case appears to define.
Most people who have nice cues also have joint protectors as well. I would assume those who are going to spend the money on a nice Justis case would also have a nice cue and would thus have the brains to either put a joint protector on that cue, or have good enough judgement to leave the case and/or cues so that they have the lowest chance of careless damage happening.
As far as the pin going in one direction or the other, the reason Jack tells us to store the cue that way is because that is the way we carry the case. We don't carry the case upside down. As far as dropping the case, who in the hell is going to let that happen? Who in the hell is going to shake their case like that? If you are traveling and forsee that your cues will be shaken that much, wrap some padding around them. It is called common sense.
I think for people to be shown that kind of footage is somewhat demeaning to both the consumer and Jack Justis and also insults people's intellect. This shows just how much Jack Justis' success is getting to John Barton.
Would you mind if I made copies of your post?
I want to make poster prints as handouts at the DCC and the SBE?:grin-square:
This all reminds me of my father and his interaction with the Kirby vacuum salesman. The salesman comes to the house and asks my mother to bring out her $109 vacuum and vacuum an area of the carpet. Then the salesman plugs in his $1500 Kirby and vacuums the same area, opens up the filter chamber and shows my dad and mom all the dirt that her vacuum missed. My dad pauses, looks at the salesman and says - ok, now use your $1500 vacuum again and go over the same area again. The salesman didn't know what to do. So my dad takes the vacuum, goes over the same area of the rug and amazing - the filter shows more dirt, etc. being sucked up. Guess the $1500 vacuum missed some too.
If you were a pool player you would understand it perfectly and yes Johnny Ervolino was a guy from NY... but a wise guy?, depends on your definition. Just because your from NY with an accent does not make you a wise guy or wiseguy depending on what you mean, capiche?
As for me I cant be a wiseguy but I can be a wise guy, I am only half italian and half irish, the mob wont have me and neither will the IRA so I am stuck here on AZ with you and John Barton. Possibly a cue might drop on my head from 3-4 feet so I am taping some leather, eva foam and 3/4 inch maple wood block to my head in case you get any ideas of whacking me out pal. :grin:
I don't know at all that I was doing anything wrong. However you are absolutely correct about the nervous energy and lack of focus. I should have practiced more and not committed to doing it until I could be clear and calm.
I did compare the case to our interior. That was the key point. I was rightly chastised for not doing the drop test on both the Justis and the JB Case. That was not left out on purpose. I just missed it while trying to focus on the chat room and the video quality and the connection and the message at the same time.
As I have stated several times and as you have no doubt read, that will be rectified tomorrow.
Well that's how it felt even though that was not my intention. I am really not sure how a competitor can ever do a product comparison that doesn't feel that way somehow. If I were to watch it then I would expect some sleight of hand as well. But I assure you that this was not the case. The presentation was barely planned out, was not scripted in any way and was somewhat practiced the night before but on the day of it was live and on-the-fly.
I agree. Which is why I will do it again in a calmer and focused manner.
Ok, Noted. Hopefully it will be raised a few notches when I do the better version.
Well said. I only disagree on the points where the consumer can't or doesn't know what the guts look like. When I bought my Durango I researched review websites from qualified reviews as well as customer testimonials. In cue cases there are no qualified reviewers that are unbiased. No one knows what is below the first five inches in a tube case.
Generally yes they are. However as I showed in the video in response to the question of whether I would review a Whitten case where I stated that all I had was a Whitten knockoff and I used that instead, a person who might have bought that knockoff sight unseen would have been screwed because the shaft tubes were too tight and the shafts got stuck while I was doing the demo. So that right there showed people that they should stay away from knockoffs because they don't know how it's built. And in fact I got an email telling me that the sender had bought a whitten knockoff and the bottom fell out of it. This is something that will NEVER Happen with a real Whitten.
So it's clear that smart people can make decisions that aren't so smart in the end because appearances really can be deceiving.
Ask Mark Smith of Mark Smith Custom cues if I am careless? I took my Joss, my stunning one of a kind Joss and put it in a Vincintore Whitten knockoff that was brand new and unused. I had picked it up in trade. I was on my way to the pool room 15 miles away to have the Joss refinished by Mark. So I put this cue into the case and the bottom fell out and the cue slid through a ring of nail points to the ground. I was sick. www.marksmithcues.com
I understand your opinion. I really hope that you will at least grant that I have some extensive experience with this and have gathered plenty of similar stories of things happening to cue cases that are no fault of the owner.
You're kidding right? When was the last time you were in a pool room?
I see players dragging their cases all the time. Want to count how many times cases get knocked over on league night? People throw their cases into the car. Pros drag their cases all over the place.
If only it were.
You're kidding right? You are saying that a person who knows that the cues will rattle and knock against each other in his case has to avoid all bumpy roads? The customer should adapt to the case's limitations? Well I can see logic in that, I mean when I put my laptop in a backpack that is flimsy then I handle it much more gingerly than when I carry it in my Samsonite laptop case. I don't care about bumping into door frames and the like when I use my Samsonite, or my Timbuktu (the best out there in laptop cases, IMO).
Right on. So with a case that secures your cues properly all the time you don't need to take that extra precaution, ever.
It sure is.
No one is blaming the case maker. Some of us want the case to be more secure so that in the event that either we are dumbasses and leave our cases in vulnerable positions OR if by some freak accident some how something else happens then there is a higher level of protection. Some of us don't want to have to babysit our cases all the time.
Well accidents happen to the best of people. No matter who you are at some point in your life your case will fall over, get dropped, end up in an awkward position, or be roughly handled. It is my position that the user should not have to worry about these things. That is why I definitely identify more with Samsonite in my concept of what a case is for.
That is an interesting point because I have seen plenty of Joint protectors the past few years which cost as much as some cues. The caps made by Alton Tanaka for example are works of art. I woudn't want those hitting anything with any sort of force whatsoever if I owned them.
Once again I have to ask when was the last time you were in the pool room? In my travels I have seen people carrying their cases in both directions. But in general you are right they don't.
Well no one on purpose. But there is such a thing as an accident. And again I have plenty of stories of people who lost control of their cases BY ACCIDENT.
Baggage handlers, bumpy roads, falling on the floor.
Or buy a case that frees you from the need to take extra steps.
Your opinion is noted. Next time there is a discussion on cue construction I will jump in and give my opinion as to what common sense is even though I am not a cue maker and have never built a cue. So when you tell us that a particular technique is important to build a solid cue then I will disagree with you since I obviously know more about the subject of cuemaking than you do since I have handled and played with so many cues. The fact is you build cues and I build cases to protect them. I can take your cue and easily break it in the type of interior that you claim is sufficient whereas you cannot do the same to a cue in my case in the same manner.
Oh please. Mr. Justis "success" is nothing to me. Success to me in this business is when someone sends me an email telling me about an accident and how their cues were saved due to the protection I built into the case. And that happens often enough to let me know that what I am doing is worthwhile.
Mr. Justis does what 150 cases a year or so? I have no idea. Success to me though is that by the end of 2010 there will be approximately 7000 people around world who have chosen cases I designed to protect their cues. All but around 1500 of those cases will be less than $200 retail. Less than 100 of them will be JB Custom Cases. That's success that I bring what I consider to be excellent, no-hassle, no- worry protection to thousands of players.
I guess if I were a cue maker I'd want the people who bought my cues to take special care of them and get the case that offers the most protection. I just feel that if I put so much love and care into crafting such a beautiful and fragile thing as a pool cue, and they are fairly fragile as far as sports equipment goes, then I would be heartbroken to see them damaged in any way. Unless of course I was making money on the repairs, then I would recommend only cases that rattle.
Anyway your points are noted. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for more. The programming will get better I promise.
I just think his close tolerance interiors will eventually cause more harm than good.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Jack can you explain this in more detail? I'm very interested in what your thoughts are on the close tolerance interiors causing more harm than good.
Jack can you explain this in more detail? I'm very interested in what your thoughts are on the close tolerance interiors causing more harm than good.
Just to interject somethign on defining my interiors. They are not "close tolerance" interiors. So let's keep the terms straight before they become common usage. A tapered cavity such as were found in the old Porper cases are close tolerance.
My interiors are made of fabric with foam rubber that expands to flow around the cue parts. The foam rubber greatest at the top and bottom with no pressure on the cue parts in the center of the case. The pressure at the top and bottom is very gentle and the cues can be easily removed with just two fingers.
Thank you. I prefer the terms padded interior to describe them. Terms like "close tolerance" and "undersized" are inaccurate.
Hmmmm, just another thing to address on video.....
My interiors are made of fabric with foam rubber that expands to flow around the cue parts. The foam rubber greatest at the top and bottom with no pressure on the cue parts in the center of the case. The pressure at the top and bottom is very gentle and the cues can be easily removed with just two fingers.
Thank you. I prefer the terms padded interior to describe them. Terms like "close tolerance" and "undersized" are inaccurate.
Hmmmm, just another thing to address on video.....
bad business
All I know is that there are two people who sell products on here that will never get my business because all they do is crticize others and sling crap. Not very professional. It's a free world. Buy what you like.
In the meantime, pull your panties out of your ass and worry about yourself.
All I know is that there are two people who sell products on here that will never get my business because all they do is crticize others and sling crap. Not very professional. It's a free world. Buy what you like.
In the meantime, pull your panties out of your ass and worry about yourself.