sound of a cue hit

[pooln8r]

Kevin,

I forgot to mention that Wendell played with a 15 mm shaft and tip and was a vertical center ball freak. When he needed to juice it up he was not too far off center and got amazing results. He milked the cow with his stroke hand every time and did so even on the most delicate soft shots.

He was also a very capable 3C player and could beat players way above his own level and experience by playing safety leaves whereby they had to use a bridge to try to make high percentage shots. Us Billiards guys hate using bridges. This would frustrate them and most of the time they did not realize. What he was doing and they thought they were just getting bad breaks. He literally wears people down like a Chinese Water torture.

Wendell is a real thinker and is very funny guy to run with because of his eclectic thinking. He has the ability to focus and bear down like a Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods. Wendell always won the money, it was his job.

When all those road players got arrested by the feds in Johnson City, they let Wendell go because he had a record book of all his road expenses and games played. He always filed a tax return as a professional pool player. They held him for a while, then because of this ultimate safety play, the feds had to cut him lose, no charges, no court, no nothing.

Rick

Thanks for more info about Mr. Weir. Sounds like he was always a step ahead of everybody else and on top of more than just his game.

Now that 15 mm shaft is really unusual these days for almost anyone. I'll bet that tree trunk of a shaft had one hell of a solid sweet hit with a real nice low striking sound. I don't think I've ever had a shaft on my cue over 13.5mm except a breaking shaft I had that was 14.25. My favorite shaft right now is 13.25 mm and I can get all sorts of special effects type draw or follow out of it. Like Wendell, I try not to look for the far edges of the cue ball if I can get it done near the middle line. Can't imagine how smooth that 15mm you made for Wendell hit. Was that a pro tapered shaft at 15mm? That's a lot of wood heading for that cue ball!

Kevin

 

[acousticsguru]

It's the sum of all parts. Even the bumper affects the sound.

Agree so far as the total sound spectrum is concerned. However, when it comes to a Southwest's "ping" sound (I have a 1991 Jerry Franklin that's straight as an arrow, nothing ever moved, love the hit and feel of the dark pro taper curly maple shaft Jerry made for me, his standard shaft less so), I'm convinced the funny overtone comes from the (capped) ferrule. Used with e.g. an aftermarket shaft, the wonderful hit and feel is gone, but so is the "ping". A friend's two Jerry Franklins with the old standard taper shafts sound just the same, later shafts with the new ferrule material (linen melamine?) sound different. Having said that, they've started using 5-minute epoxy with those (also for the tips), that in itself IMHO affects the sound, too. What I've started doing for my Southwest, by the way, is to use a fiber pad between ferrule and tip. Like that better in every respect, sound included. But then, I started using Kamui tips later on, the black in particular sound awful. Oh well…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[JoeyInCali]

Agree so far as the total sound spectrum is concerned. However, when it comes to a Southwest's "ping" sound (I have a 1991 Jerry Franklin that's straight as an arrow, nothing ever moved, love the hit and feel of the dark pro taper curly maple shaft Jerry made for me, his standard shaft less so), I'm convinced the funny overtone comes from the (capped) ferrule. Used with e.g. an aftermarket shaft, the wonderful hit and feel is gone, but so is the "ping". A friend's two Jerry Franklins with the old standard taper shafts sound just the same, later shafts with the new ferrule material (linen melamine?) sound different. Having said that, they've started using 5-minute epoxy with those (also for the tips), that in itself IMHO affects the sound, too. What I've started doing for my Southwest, by the way, is to use a fiber pad between ferrule and tip. Like that better in every respect, sound included. But then, I started using Kamui tips later on, the black in particular sound awful. Oh well…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I don't think they cap their ferrules now.

 

[qbilder]

Agree so far as the total sound spectrum is concerned. However, when it comes to a Southwest's "ping" sound (I have a 1991 Jerry Franklin that's straight as an arrow, nothing ever moved, love the hit and feel of the dark pro taper curly maple shaft Jerry made for me, his standard shaft less so), I'm convinced the funny overtone comes from the (capped) ferrule. Used with e.g. an aftermarket shaft, the wonderful hit and feel is gone, but so is the "ping". A friend's two Jerry Franklins with the old standard taper shafts sound just the same, later shafts with the new ferrule material (linen melamine?) sound different. Having said that, they've started using 5-minute epoxy with those (also for the tips), that in itself IMHO affects the sound, too. What I've started doing for my Southwest, by the way, is to use a fiber pad between ferrule and tip. Like that better in every respect, sound included. But then, I started using Kamui tips later on, the black in particular sound awful. Oh well…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I think of cues with the "chain" comparison in mind. Everything can be perfect but if one single link is bad, the entire chain is bad. Same with cues to a great extent.

 

[Lexicologist71]

Rick, Orca looks awesome.

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick, Orca looks awesome.

Hi Paul,

It is at the art studio having artwork done on the handle. We are going to submit it to Cuezilla for an evaluation and see what happens.

It is my first attempt at a big cue. I will be keeping my fingers crossed.

thanks,

Rick

 

[mikeridethe9]

I think of cues with the "chain" comparison in mind. Everything can be perfect but if one single link is bad, the entire chain is bad. Same with cues to a great extent.

I agree 100%. But what are the are each of the links? Also by ping I don't necessarily just the sound, It's the feel of the cue ball coming off the tip like a spring or something, it almost feels effortless to put spin on the cue ball.

 

[qbilder]

I agree 100%. But what are the are each of the links? Also by ping I don't necessarily just the sound, It's the feel of the cue ball coming off the tip like a spring or something, it almost feels effortless to put spin on the cue ball.

I know exactly what you mean. The sound is only a byproduct of the hit. Sound can be adjusted with tips & ferrules, but that "spring", or what I refer to as "power" cannot. The links of the chain are every component, and the quality of such components as well as quality of construction. For every weak link, the "hit" is diminished to an extent, depending on how weak.

For my cues, the most attention is given to wood quality in terms of stiffness & harmonics. If the handle, forearm, & shaft are of good quality & well matched, then everything else is easy. Any of those main 3 components lacking in stiffness or tone, and the cue is junk. From these 3 components, everything is filled in around them. On the back goes the butt sleeve & cap & bumper. In the middle goes a joint pin & collars. On the front goes a ferrule & tip. The handle & forearm are joined at the "A" joint to unite as a singular component that should have a tonal character average of the two. When that component is joined with the shaft, the tone again should become the average of the two. Given that my construction is sound & solid, all other components only accentuate or "tune" the tonal flow of the cue. It already has a base line, but choosing ferrule material & install technique, tip, & bumper, allows me to fine tune the cue one direction or the other. The goal is an end result of a cue that has a very good balance of power, comfort, & sound. Then it's easy to adjust to & becomes part of you like an old pair of underwear, something you don't even have to think about.

There's so much more to a cue than the tip & ferrule. Accept it, dismiss it, ignore it, embrace it, no matter to me. It's things I have learned from building cues, and apply to cues I continue to build. Personally, I like to really "get it on" rather than play "just the tip". If you're going to do it, then do it right. And the only way to do it right is to know everything about it. Obviously, none of us know it all, but at least some do attempt to. Others just accept the easy status quo, less work & less to know. I'd rather attempt & fail, and learn from it, than to not attempt at all & be clueless.

 

[Rtoron]

I think the ping sound is greatly influenced by the type of ferrule used and the taper of the shaft at the rear of the shaft towards the joint. This has been my experience with building cues for 20 years.

 

[Cuemaster98]

"The sound is only a byproduct of the hit. Sound can be adjusted with tips & ferrules, but that "spring", or what I refer to as "power" cannot."

Couldn't agree more. IMO, the shaft "power" is defined by quality or attributes of the shaft wood (grain straightness, weight, etc). I heard from a great builder of our time that treated shaft wood from nelsonite, resolute destroy the grain characteristic thus resulting in less power in the shaft.

Eg. I have super diamond schon shaft (grain are tight, straight and shimmer in the light) that give out this amazing pin sound, it has a perfect tip curvature for me and the level of the tip was perfect and the tip itself was a hard layered hit type. Any of my butt with this shaft just played deadly...but as soon as I changed my tip to one of my Hybrid Molavia (soft hitting type), same curvature, same level, the ping sound was gone and it has the quieter softer hit. The shaft still plays good but I prefer the hard hit..so as soon as I change back to my usual Hard Molavia, the ping sound came back...so tip alone is a huge factor based on my experiment...also the height of the tip plays a role. The lower the tip level to the ferrule (ping get slightly more distinctive).

Duc.

 

[Lexicologist71]

There is no power in the cue. The pool cue is merely a conduit for the power in your arm to reach the cue ball.

Just because something is not really really hard does not mean that it is not of the highest quality. It is only high quality if it is supposed to be really hard. If a product is supposed to be soft and it is in fact really hard, it would be a very low quality product. Quality indicates how well a product meets its expectations. Just because a cue doesn't make a 'ping' sound does not mean it is made poorly. It means that the cuemaker chose material that doesn't necessarily promote sound propogation. I tend to like the ping, but I don't care if it is present. I care about buzz and the feel of the impact and, more than anything, how the cue ball reacts to the impact of the stick.

 

[JoeyInCali]

There is no power in the cue. The pool cue is merely a conduit for the power in your arm to reach the cue ball.

.

Yes, there is.
And some cues are duds. :smile:

 

[acousticsguru]

There is no power in the cue. The pool cue is merely a conduit for the power in your arm to reach the cue ball.

Needless to say the cue won't "add", but it can sure detract. Whether and in which way exactly this is linked to the sound is another matter.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[qbilder]

There is no power in the cue. The pool cue is merely a conduit for the power in your arm to reach the cue ball.

Just because something is not really really hard does not mean that it is not of the highest quality. It is only high quality if it is supposed to be really hard. If a product is supposed to be soft and it is in fact really hard, it would be a very low quality product. Quality indicates how well a product meets its expectations. Just because a cue doesn't make a 'ping' sound does not mean it is made poorly. It means that the cuemaker chose material that doesn't necessarily promote sound propogation. I tend to like the ping, but I don't care if it is present. I care about buzz and the feel of the impact and, more than anything, how the cue ball reacts to the impact of the stick.

The cue directly transmits the power, and how efficiently it does it depends on the quality of the cue as a whole. Hard, soft, no matter. A rubber bouncy ball of equal size & weight as a golf ball will bounce higher than a golf ball if dropped on concrete from your hand, but the golf ball will travel MUCH farther if driven with a club. Same weight & size, but the material dynamics make one a better performer in one test & the other a better performer in another test. When factoring the size & weight of the cue ball, there most certainly IS a difference in how well one cue moves it as opposed to another. The goal, of course, is to produce a cue that moves that ball best with least effort. Hard & soft don't matter. The overall "power" of the cue is what matters. Call yin & i'll call yang, but any player on earth understands what it means.