I don't understand how you can say this? So are you basically suggesting that spin only affects the angles off the rails, and not the overall distance the CB travels?
Spin or no spin
- Thread starter irock
- Start date
It's not clear that adding inside english here increases the throw. Regardless, that's a small effect and Scott's comment is spot on.
This is IDIOTIC. To shoot the same shot with inside english, you will not hit the object ball in the same place as the cue ball spin will THROW the object into the pocket. On this shot, in order to make the ball, you have to hit the object ball thinner, and the cue ball will thus come off the object ball at a lesser angle.to use one of your favorite icons.
The blanket statement that inside doesn't cause throw is retarded.
It's possible to throw or not throw the same shot. It depends on how you stroke it. l
Maximum sidespin will throw the ob very little, if at all. However, less than a tip can create tremendous throw. Speed also has everything to do with the amt of throw. The flex of the cue also is a big factor.
I would love Dr Dave to chime in on this.
Inside english increases throw at small cut angles, but actually reduces the amount of throw at larger cut angles. For more information (including well illustrated articles), see my inside english resource page.
That's true. With lot's of inside english, throw is less than with no english.
With inside english, throw is generally less at faster speeds, but this is not the case at smaller cut angles and smaller amounts of spin. Also, for center-ball shots at smaller cut angles, and for outside english shots close to the gearing amount of spin, throw can be the same at all speeds. For more info, see my outside english resource page and:
I hope my chimes help.
Regards,
Dave
I don't think that's what Scott was saying. Let me try.
Suppose you hit a spot shot with follow. Whether you have left, right or no side spin on the cue ball will change the arrival spot of the cue ball on the far end rail only very slightly as long as the cue ball arrives at the object ball rolling smoothly on the cloth and at the same speed for all the shots.
After the cue ball hits the rail, the side spin will have an effect. Inside will be reverse on the end rail and tend to slow the ball down. Outside will tend to speed the ball up. But that's only after the cue ball contacts the cushion.
Put another way, if someone shoots a spot shot as above and you don't see if they applied any side spin, you can't tell whether the cue ball has side spin until it gets to the cushion. Well, unless it is a spotted cue ball.
Similarly with a stun shot (no follow or draw) and side spin. The side spin has a small effect on the cut angle (from throw) but almost no effect on the path or speed of the cue ball -- until and if it gets to a cushion.
It's actually simple to understand, just play on some really tight pockets and clean fast cloth. Actually it's hard to understand if you haven't gotten to the other side yet.
On tight pockets you can't break any rules or your balls go all over the place, sometimes missing by a quarter pocket and believe you are working with the right formula.
People will always make assumptions on what they think is right, and sometimes it works. But when you bring it to legit equipment, the table won't accept it.
I think it's true most of the time. It's true for half ball and thinner hits, and for most fuller hits with a rolling cue ball, and for a lot of the rest with more than minimal sidespin. The blanket statement is technically untrue, but it's definitely not "retarded". And your vocabulary needs work.
pj
chgo
I think just as Jack Nicklaus said to "learn to drive 300 yards before caring about whether or not it's straight --- straightness comes later, learning to hit far doesn't," the same applies to spin.
I think if a beginning player isn't shunned away from spin and learns to pocket balls with spin early on, it's a lot easier to back off it at a later time as they progress versus trying to learn how to incorporate it into their game when they're so used to pocketing with center ball.
I think if a beginning player isn't shunned away from spin and learns to pocket balls with spin early on, it's a lot easier to back off it at a later time as they progress versus trying to learn how to incorporate it into their game when they're so used to pocketing with center ball.
Rodney Morris uses a LOT of spin shots. Johnnyt
You're spot on Neil as usual.
ALL players would be doing themselves a favor if they set up the same shot over and over (DOZENS of times EACH) except shoot the same shot aiming the same way; with 1/16" of side spin, then 1/8" of side spin and then "wow" 1/4" of side spin, they would see things that would open up a whole new world.
Once you experience the effects that even slight/sleight bits of English has on a shot, you will be on your way to becoming a much better player.
Sometimes I go back to basics. My grandads fundamental game was to only use speed "no left or right spin". Its rather pretty to watch someone thats mastered this technique, leaving the proper angle on the next ball to draw "natural shape for the next shot". When done properly its the most natural looking "effortless" game you've ever seen. Most of the true masters of this technique are gone, but I always enjoyed watching them. Just my two cents.
You're right. I misunderstood Scott's post. I was interpreting it based on the context of the OP, and not on what he was actually trying to say. My bad.
The other school of thought is that it's easier to build more complex technique on a firm foundation of basics. Maybe it depends on the player.
pj
chgo
Spin or no spin?
I went out this afternoon and shot about 10 games of 8 ball against the ghost. All games were speed only, no drilling, no reverse. I'll tell ya I had a great time, thats the way I was schooled learning. I pocketed more tough shots today than I have all month. Instead of using english to get a better angle.
What it does for a beginner is it trains your eye to see the shot, secondly it hones your stroke, thirdly eye and stroke work together. And lastly you learn the basic mechanics of ball / rail reaction "where the ball will travel naturally" I'm old school I suppose but I think after you master the technique you have a strong foundation to build on. When I say master it I mean your breaking and getting out. Or your just as strong a player without spin, as you are with english. Its a great trainer IMO.
For us that have been playing for years it reminds our mind and muscles.
I didn't have much choice the first 6 or 7 years of pool from 6 to 12 years old, your hands and height. Hell I never learned the closed bridge until my hand sand fingers were big enough. It was a lot easier to spend saturday afternoon with your dad at the bar or pool hall playing the grown ups as well. Sunday was the Moose lodge "it was closed", stocking and cleaning I'd spend the whole afternoon playing on the tables upstairs. Not getting your kids involved playing pool kills this sport as well.
Don't get me wrong I can move the cue ball but I think its best to first master the basics. JMO of course.
I went out this afternoon and shot about 10 games of 8 ball against the ghost. All games were speed only, no drilling, no reverse. I'll tell ya I had a great time, thats the way I was schooled learning. I pocketed more tough shots today than I have all month. Instead of using english to get a better angle.
What it does for a beginner is it trains your eye to see the shot, secondly it hones your stroke, thirdly eye and stroke work together. And lastly you learn the basic mechanics of ball / rail reaction "where the ball will travel naturally" I'm old school I suppose but I think after you master the technique you have a strong foundation to build on. When I say master it I mean your breaking and getting out. Or your just as strong a player without spin, as you are with english. Its a great trainer IMO.
For us that have been playing for years it reminds our mind and muscles.
I didn't have much choice the first 6 or 7 years of pool from 6 to 12 years old, your hands and height. Hell I never learned the closed bridge until my hand sand fingers were big enough. It was a lot easier to spend saturday afternoon with your dad at the bar or pool hall playing the grown ups as well. Sunday was the Moose lodge "it was closed", stocking and cleaning I'd spend the whole afternoon playing on the tables upstairs. Not getting your kids involved playing pool kills this sport as well.
Don't get me wrong I can move the cue ball but I think its best to first master the basics. JMO of course.
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Really...just try shooting a rack with no spin (use a measle ball to see)...it's a lot harder than you'd think. Then shoot a few racks (9 or 8) with no English, only hitting the vertical axis of the cueball, using natural angles and speed to control the cue ball. It's tough, but once you've gotten handy at that, then add English to taste, adjusting your angles coming off rails or the object ball. The problem many intermediate players have is they have no eye for natural angle or collision induced throw with a center ball hit...which should be basic knowledge, but often isn't. They always want to put some juice on it, and almost all of their position errors wouldn't happen if they'd just let the natural angle take with center ball!