Stan The Man Shuffett

[cleary]

Well, from where I sit, I think everybody, first and foremost, should start aiming with a side-armed stroke. It's a great aiming system.

Haven't you-all ever heard of different strokes for different folks? Sheesh.

Why don't we start a thread about which cue stick has the best hit?! We can talk about that one from now to eternity!

Side-armed players aim to please!

I agree with the concept that you are saying. There are many ways to skin a cat but at the end of the day, why are you skinning a cat sicko?!?!? LMAO

But the side arm thing is just a stance thing that worked for Keith and Im sure had very little to do with aiming.


The whole "aiming system" stuff honestly shouldn't be called "aiming" anyway. You aim with a straight line no matter what. If you want to hit something, you point your cue directly at it. Thats aiming. But these systems bring you to the contact point that you had trouble seeing or finding previously. I think "pocketing" system is a much better term. It sets you up to pocket balls in a way most people just cannot understand. I do it myself and I still just don't understand how or why it works so well.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Congratulations

Stan nice job.

I wish you the best of rolls.

ken

 

[lfigueroa]

This week at our house we have been celebrating Stan's (and Phil's) success at the Open. I look at this forum maybe 3 times a year but decided to check off and on this week for obvious reasons. I can usually predict what I'm going to read here: some very nice words of praise or some pretty nasty comments (hater-talk to be specific). This leads me to the conclusion that a select few just can't stand it when someone does something well, a few of you need some serious lessons in manners, and some of you act very much like the 7 year-olds I teach.

I helped Stan with the pre-production of the DVD which took us about 2 years after Stan studied the game, fundamentals, and aiming for MANY years. I can tell you I witnessed his putting this information together in a very structured way so that anyone could learn this system. Maybe it comes from his years of teaching elementary school paired with his love of pool for the past 50 years that drives him to be the best he can be. He wants share his knowledge and enlighten those who seek information as well. Why are you so against that? Lou, I can guarantee that if you found someone who met your standards of giving an "unbiased opinion" and gave a favorable opinion of Stan's DVD, you'd throw them out and look for another someone. And it would continue until you found an opinion to agree with your idea that the DVD is a joke.

We're pushing the 1000 mark on DVD sales. I know this because I've packed and mailed about all of the darn things myself. I've also listened to Stan in phone conversations with satisfied customers and read personal emails and letters that people actually take the time to write and mail complimenting Stan on a job well done and on what a super product he has. So there are quite a few students of the game who share the opinion that he has a very useful product.

By the way, I sincerely thank all those who have posted the nice comments and kind words of congratulations.

-Connie
After a while, the word "hater" becomes so predictable in an odd way it's almost funny.

I have complimented Stan's Open achievement several times in this thread.

And if you take a look at the third post in this thread you will see that very early on there was an attempt to separate a valid reason for celebration from the usual vitriol that always surrounds aiming system discussions on this and other forums. But the same guys who are alway provoking a fight insisted on connecting the two. If you are looking for "haters" you need to look no further than Spider and Joey.

Once again, I think Stan deserves a round of applause. But once we start getting into CTE and Pro1, that's a bit different and, as you can see for yourself, the conversation does have a tendency to turn ugly. It is the way it has been for 15 years on the internet pool discussion forums and it is probably the way it will remain for the next 15.

Lou Figueroa

 

[cleary]

Well, unlike some others on here, I don't claim to know what a person's motivation is in any particular instance. However, I will throw out a theory: Stan obviously considers himself an expert on the aiming system he developed. So he goes about putting together a DVD to share it with others and make a few bucks. But then -- guess what -- the system cannot be documented on a DVD because it really doesn't make any sense in the first place. He developed the system, believes in it, teaches it as best he can, but ultimately discovers that it basically takes a leap of faith (or two, or three, or pick a number) because there is no step-by-step way the system can truly work. But, the DVD is produced anyway and shipped out. Soooo, some think they get it, others see that there are holes and for good reason don't get it. I seem to recall that some even wanted their money back, but Stan refused.

It's the underlying problem with the whole thing. And it is probably the same reason why, after months of chest pounding by Spider that he was in the process of producing this monstrous tome that was -- once and for all -- going to explain how CTE was a scientifically valid aiming system nothing was ever produced and presented. When it got down to brass tacks, maybe he discovered that it wasn't so scientific after all? If nothing else, "Spider's Proof" of this scientific system is long over due

Anywhos, just a guess

Lou Figueroa

Lou, I 100% agree that the DVD was hard to follow and was not explained properly. Without my previous knowledge of a similar system, I would have been lost as you were. Even after spending a half hour with Stan at Derby (free of charge I might add), I still think he does not relay his message in a very effective manner.

However, there are things in that DVD that got me thinking about my 90/90 voodoo I use and it helped me improve it a great deal.

 

[JB Cases]

Well, unlike some others on here, I don't claim to know what a person's motivation is in any particular instance. However, I will throw out a theory: Stan obviously considers himself an expert on the aiming system he developed. So he goes about putting together a DVD to share it with others and make a few bucks. But then -- guess what -- the system cannot be documented on a DVD because it really doesn't make any sense in the first place. He developed the system, believes in it, teaches it as best he can, but ultimately discovers that it basically takes a leap of faith (or two, or three, or pick a number) because there is no step-by-step way the system can truly work. But, the DVD is produced anyway and shipped out. Soooo, some think they get it, others see that there are holes and for good reason don't get it. I seem to recall that some even wanted their money back, but Stan refused.

It's the underlying problem with the whole thing. And it is probably the same reason why, after months of chest pounding by Spider that he was in the process of producing this monstrous tome that was -- once and for all -- going to explain how CTE was a scientifically valid aiming system nothing was ever produced and presented. When it got down to brass tacks, maybe he discovered that it wasn't so scientific after all? If nothing else, "Spider's Proof" of this scientific system is long over due

Anywhos, just a guess

Lou Figueroa

And yet the DVD does provide a step by step process. I showed it to a guy who doesn't even speak English and he got it.

But that's not the point. You said Stan deliberately made it "incomprehensible". You know full well that whether it is or isn't easy to understand Stan didn't deliberately make it hard to understand. What he did do is deliberately try to make it as easy to understand as he knew how to at the time.

Then you go on to say that this deliberate act of making the information incomprehensible dooms the student to failure. Which is to say that you mean Stan has deliberately tried to make people fail at pocketing balls.

You know that isn't true Lou.

Yes a few people didn't get it, you being one of them, and a few people asked for their money back which I believe Stan should have refunded them. But as Connie reported they are coming up on 1000 DVDs sold which indicates that the vast majority are well satisfied with the content. Many stated on here that they did get the information easily and others needed a little bit more help which Stan provided.

I don't know why you feel that the system isn't documented on the DVD. It's all there for you step-by-step. Each line is accurately diagrammed, each term is defined and explained. There are a ton of reference shots, the table is laid out in a perfect grid for accurate references. The shots are demonstrated by three good players. All in all it's well presented content. It is a lot of information and requires many viewings to absorb the information but that's as it should be for something of this caliber.

I find that it's not easy to take a DVD to the pool table. Even if one has a laptop, which I do, it is not easy to use it at the table and go through the information step by step. I found I needed to watch a chapter and then go practice it. And I had to go back again if I didn't really get it. This is tedious. Most people won't do that. Most people, especially those who haven't even tried to learn these methods prior to seeing Stan's DVD will not get it just by watching. They will have a hard time taking it to the table.

But so what? This is not something that is for anyone who isn't willing to put in the effort. It's not a magic bullet even though it sure feels like one when it clicks.

But you know full well that Stan isn't deliberately misleading people. You are projecting your whole angry contrary position which started a decade ago onto Stan with your theory above. He doesn't deserve it. If anything he should at least get your praise for attempting to bring the system into a more understandable position by documenting it as best he can.

I don't know what more he could do for you? But I know what you could do for him. You could apologize for calling him a snake-oil salesman and a con-man.

You could recognize him as a very good player with a lot of heart to put himself out there with a DVD and a willingness to mix it up with the best players in the world. In the interest of peace you could do the right thing and do that much.

Sincerely,

John Barton Ghandi

 

[JB Cases]

Lou, I 100% agree that the DVD was hard to follow and was not explained properly. Without my previous knowledge of a similar system, I would have been lost as you were. Even after spending a half hour with Stan at Derby (free of charge I might add), I still think he does not relay his message in a very effective manner.

However, there are things in that DVD that got me thinking about my 90/90 voodoo I use and it helped me improve it a great deal.

And I don't agree that it was hard to follow. What I would have done differently is set up the WHY one would need or want such a method in the first place.

I would have used GB to transition into ProOne so that any intermediate player could follow the logic.

I think with a single viewing a person might want to give up as it's too much information to absorb in one shot. You really have to slow it down and digest it chapter by chapter deeply to get it.

Once a person commits to doing that then things begin to click and it gets easier to see the lines.

 

[JoeyA]

That still does not mean that Stan deliberately made it incomprehensible as you stated.

Nor does it mean that Stan doomed the student to failure.

Nor does it mean that the information is bogus.

Why can't you simply apologize? You don't have to believe. You don't have to try to use the information. You don't have to call Stan for clarification of whatever you didn't understand.

But nothing on that DVD gave you the right to claim that the information is bogus. Nothing on the DVD gave you the right to accuse Stan of deliberate misdirection. Nothing on the DVD gave you the right to say that Stan has doomed his students to failure.

Why can't you simply admit you unfairly attacked a good person who put out his best effort to appease you? You know full well that this DVD would not exist were it not for the relentless attacks you and a few others unleashed on him and all teachers of Hal's systems. Stan said flat out that he was making the DVD in response to your and other's accusations that he is selling snake-oil.

Deep down you are a good guy Lou. I mean that sincerely. I think you honestly love the game with as much passion as any of us. And you do play damn good. You have been around and earned your street cred as well. So why continue this fight? You know Stan loves the game. You know we all love the game. Isn't this all a little silly to fight over which method of learning to play is better?

I hope that you will consider what I said and do the right thing.

John,
You've extended the appropriate olive branch to Lou, not that he deserves it but in the interest of our mutual love for the game, I'm sure.

Regardless, Lou is so blinded by his propensity to label Stan's CTE/Pro One aiming system, that he will not acknowledge that his attacks are personal and that they could affect Stan and his family's lives. Lou will continue to put spin on what he has said but I think the VAST MAJORITY OF POSTERS see him for what he is and what he has said.

If Lou does apologize for his classless actions in this forum, I will readily close the chapter on this issue.

It is my belief that Stan "THE MAN" Shuffett, has once again shown himself to be a special man, not only a man of integrity and character, a superb teacher and excellent pool instructor but a highly talented player who uses a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE aiming system called CTE/Pro One.

As you and others have noted, it took great courage for Stan to put his CTE/Pro One aiming system out there for all to see.

CTE/Pro One has been tested on the WORLD STAGE and has been proven to be a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE aiming system.

Congratulations once again to Stan and his CTE/Pro One Aiming System. Thank you for providing us with one of the most interesting U.S. Open 9 Ball Championships ever!

 

[JAM]

I agree with the concept that you are saying. There are many ways to skin a cat but at the end of the day, why are you skinning a cat sicko?!?!? LMAO

But the side arm thing is just a stance thing that worked for Keith and Im sure had very little to do with aiming.

If I had a choice between Keith's aiming technique, to include his side-armed stroke, and a computer-sniping suckerpuncher, I'd take Keith's aiming methodology every day of the week. :smile:

At the end of the day, there's many ways to target others with snipes on a forum, but I'm sure many of them have very little to do with pool.

 

[lfigueroa]

And yet the DVD does provide a step by step process. I showed it to a guy who doesn't even speak English and he got it.

But that's not the point. You said Stan deliberately made it "incomprehensible". You know full well that whether it is or isn't easy to understand Stan didn't deliberately make it hard to understand. What he did do is deliberately try to make it as easy to understand as he knew how to at the time.

Then you go on to say that this deliberate act of making the information incomprehensible dooms the student to failure. Which is to say that you mean Stan has deliberately tried to make people fail at pocketing balls.

You know that isn't true Lou.

Yes a few people didn't get it, you being one of them, and a few people asked for their money back which I believe Stan should have refunded them. But as Connie reported they are coming up on 1000 DVDs sold which indicates that the vast majority are well satisfied with the content. Many stated on here that they did get the information easily and others needed a little bit more help which Stan provided.

I don't know why you feel that the system isn't documented on the DVD. It's all there for you step-by-step. Each line is accurately diagrammed, each term is defined and explained. There are a ton of reference shots, the table is laid out in a perfect grid for accurate references. The shots are demonstrated by three good players. All in all it's well presented content. It is a lot of information and requires many viewings to absorb the information but that's as it should be for something of this caliber.

I find that it's not easy to take a DVD to the pool table. Even if one has a laptop, which I do, it is not easy to use it at the table and go through the information step by step. I found I needed to watch a chapter and then go practice it. And I had to go back again if I didn't really get it. This is tedious. Most people won't do that. Most people, especially those who haven't even tried to learn these methods prior to seeing Stan's DVD will not get it just by watching. They will have a hard time taking it to the table.

But so what? This is not something that is for anyone who isn't willing to put in the effort. It's not a magic bullet even though it sure feels like one when it clicks.

But you know full well that Stan isn't deliberately misleading people. You are projecting your whole angry contrary position which started a decade ago onto Stan with your theory above. He doesn't deserve it. If anything he should at least get your praise for attempting to bring the system into a more understandable position by documenting it as best he can.

I don't know what more he could do for you? But I know what you could do for him. You could apologize for calling him a snake-oil salesman and a con-man.

You could recognize him as a very good player with a lot of heart to put himself out there with a DVD and a willingness to mix it up with the best players in the world. In the interest of peace you could do the right thing and do that much.

Sincerely,

John Barton Ghandi

How many times am I suppose to compliment him in this thread?

As to the DVD: I watched it and felt there was no way anyone could be expected to watch it, even multiple times, and come away with a "system" they could reliably deploy. So what does that leave you with but intentionally producing and selling an incomplete DVD -- a doomed attempt. It'd be like selling a cooking book that left out key steps or ingredients. The authors see the draft, find out the recipes don't work because they left stuff out, and they print and distribute it any way. BTW, I was also referring to all the pivoting demonstrated in the DVD which, on it's own, would be likely to doom a student to failure and ultimately mess up their stroke.

Lou Figueroa
didn't want that
last part
to be left out

 

[SUPERSTAR]

And yet another thread has degraded into the typical CTE argument.
Yawn.

Um. Congratulations to Stan, for the nice showing at the open.

carry on...

 

[lfigueroa]

John,
You've extended the appropriate olive branch to Lou, not that he deserves it but in the interest of our mutual love for the game, I'm sure.

Regardless, Lou is so blinded by his propensity to label Stan's CTE/Pro One aiming system, that he will not acknowledge that his attacks are personal and that they could affect Stan and his family's lives. Lou will continue to put spin on what he has said but I think the VAST MAJORITY OF POSTERS see him for what he is and what he has said.

If Lou does apologize for his classless actions in this forum, I will readily close the chapter on this issue.

It is my belief that Stan "THE MAN" Shuffett, has once again shown himself to be a special man, not only a man of integrity and character, a superb teacher and excellent pool instructor but a highly talented player who uses a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE aiming system called CTE/Pro One.

As you and others have noted, it took great courage for Stan to put his CTE/Pro One aiming system out there for all to see.

CTE/Pro One has been tested on the WORLD STAGE and has been proven to be a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE aiming system.

Congratulations once again to Stan and his CTE/Pro One Aiming System. Thank you for providing us with one of the most interesting U.S. Open 9 Ball Championships ever!

Hater.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, I 100% agree that the DVD was hard to follow and was not explained properly. Without my previous knowledge of a similar system, I would have been lost as you were. Even after spending a half hour with Stan at Derby (free of charge I might add), I still think he does not relay his message in a very effective manner.

However, there are things in that DVD that got me thinking about my 90/90 voodoo I use and it helped me improve it a great deal.

I think many people felt that way and for good cause.

But at least you did get some benefit out it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

Can somebody please explain how to aim for a "feel" shot? :thumbup:

 

[Roger Long]

Deep down you are a good guy Lou. I mean that sincerely. I think you honestly love the game with as much passion as any of us. And you do play damn good. You have been around and earned your street cred as well. So why continue this fight? You know Stan loves the game. You know we all love the game. Isn't this all a little silly to fight over which method of learning to play is better?

This is one time that I can agree with you wholeheartedly, JB. Wonderful words of truth and reason here. :thumbup:

I wish every single person in this thread would take JB's message to heart.

I also wish I could play like Stan Shuffett (OR Lou Figuroa). Great performance, Stan!

Roger

 

[sfleinen]

Putting lipstick on a pig

And yet another thread has degraded into the typical CTE argument.
Yawn.

Um. Congratulations to Stan, for the nice showing at the open.

carry on...

This thread was never at a point where it "degraded," and there are no innocent parties in this one. This thread opened up in a degraded state to begin with. As evidence of this, look at post #1 (opening post of this thread). Tell me if that isn't a snipe to begin with? If it were truly heartfelt congratulations for Stan's accomplishments, it wouldn't have included the obvious "nyeh-nyeh" pokes in the eye about a particular aiming system, followed by the closing "mwah ha ha ha ha" haunted-house laughing. If that isn't a thread designed to draw the "haters" (or naysayers) out, I don't know what is.

A couple folks tried to turn the intention of this thread around, with heartfelt congratulations (ignoring the aiming system genital-waving). But as they say, all this were only efforts to "put lipstick on a pig."

It's sad, too. Because Stan really deserves heartfelt congratulations for his excellent showing at the U.S. Open, without all this aiming system crap tarnishing the effort.
-Sean

 

[lfigueroa]

Can somebody please explain how to aim for a "feel" shot? :thumbup:

My wife and I were walking through a Chicago neighborhood a few months ago and we're walking past a baseball diamond with a couple of grammar school teams going at it. The batter fouls a ball over the fence and it dribbles in front of us on the sidewalk. The kid at first base sees us and holds up his glove for me to throw it to him.

Now, honestly, I haven't picked up a baseball since high school, when I played a little second base. I picked up the ball and fired it back about 40 feet right into his glove. My wife was like, "Wow. Pretty good."

That's how you aim a feel shot: see the target, put the ball on the target.

Lou Figueroa
no edges
no pivoting

 

[JB Cases]

How many times am I suppose to compliment him in this thread?

As to the DVD: I watched it and felt there was no way anyone could be expected to watch it, even multiple times, and come away with a "system" they could reliably deploy. So what does that leave you with but intentionally producing and selling an incomplete DVD -- a doomed attempt. It'd be like selling a cooking book that left out key steps or ingredients. The authors see the draft, find out the recipes don't work because the left stuff out, and they print and distribute it any way. BTW, I was also referring to all the pivoting demonstrated in the DVD which, on it's own, would be likely to doom a student to failure and ultimately mess up their stroke.

Lou Figueroa
didn't want that
last part
to be left out

I understand how you feel but the fact is that many people have watched the video and understood how to use the methods Stan teaches from it. As I stated earlier I showed it to someone who doesn't even speak English and he got it. I took my laptop to the pool room and he was interested in what I was doing so I told him to watch and see what he thought. He did and simply duplicated the motions and was able to use what he saw to make balls.

Still though your compliments to Stan don't mean much when you turn around and insult his work. The thread was started to make a clear link between what Stan teaches and his recent results as a player.

To use your cooking analogy it's a poor chef who won't eat his own cooking. Stan clearly uses what he teaches when playing. Thus for you to call it bogus is uncalled for.

If you go back and simply make tick marks for the people who were happy with the video versus the people who are not happy with it then you will find many more in the happy category. Take out the diehard cheerleaders like me and diehard skeptics like you and you will still have an overwhelmingly positive response.

How many times are you supposed to compliment Stan in this thread? Well, honestly from my perspective not once would have probably been the best way as your compliments have not seemed very sincere since you are tethering them to more negativity about Stan's product.

Anyway, you are certainly stubborn and tenacious if nothing else. Although you owe Stan an apology I can see that one is not forthcoming.

Maybe someday you two can match up and perhaps come to some middle ground after that.

 

[C.Milian]

Can somebody please explain how to aim for a "feel" shot? :thumbup:

When you don't have to focus on the object balls pocket path....everything that has to do with that.

 

[lfigueroa]

This is one time that I can agree with you wholeheartedly, JB. Wonderful words of truth and reason here. :thumbup:

I wish every single person in this thread would take JB's message to heart.

I also wish I could play like Stan Shuffett (OR Lou Figuroa). Great performance, Stan!

Roger

OK, I missed that. Thanks, John, and Roger.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sfleinen]

Can somebody please explain how to aim for a "feel" shot? :thumbup:

Jennie:

Careful! In some parts of the country, a "feel shot" is when someone is "hit and run" groped while standing in a crowd, and it happens so fast, she can't do anything about it.

I don't think you want instructions on how to do this, right?

-Sean