Staples vs. Glue

A-1 billiards said:
Hey Glen,

I've been hearing about this "tack strip" retro-fit recently. The first time was from a room owner that I gave no credibility to, the second was from a mechanic that is a credible guy. I've never used or seen this "fix" on any table I've personally have worked on. It sounds as if you have...:grin: . For the record though, what are the aspects of this method that make it a joke.

Thanks in advance.
Jay
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First of all, you can't attach tack strips to bar table slates, second...If a slates backer boards are all stapled to hell, or made from particle board or MDF, they're more than likely stapled out as well. Then, when moving the slates, the tack strips are going to have to be removed in order to handle the slates. Then, you can't use them on T-bolt rails, as the rails bolt right up to the edge of the slates. Can't use them on Riley snooker tables either, as they have T-rails as well.

I think that a system of installing the bed cloths, if it's a perfect system...should apply to ALL forms of tables, and NOT to just a few select tables, and tack strips...can NOT work on all tables, so I consider it a waste of time. As far as I'm concerned, I put it right up there with hack work, as the only purpose of using them is to try and get in and out the door with the paycheck as fast as possible!:wink:

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
First of all, you can't attach tack strips to bar table slates, second...If a slates backer boards are all stapled to hell, or made from particle board or MDF, they're more than likely stapled out as well. Then, when moving the slates, the tack strips are going to have to be removed in order to handle the slates. Then, you can't use them on T-bolt rails, as the rails bolt right up to the edge of the slates. Can't use them on Riley snooker tables either, as they have T-rails as well.

I think that a system of installing the bed cloths, if it's a perfect system...should apply to ALL forms of tables, and NOT to just a few select tables, and tack strips...can NOT work on all tables, so I consider it a waste of time. As far as I'm concerned, I put it right up there with hack work, as the only purpose of using them is to try and get in and out the door with the paycheck as fast as possible!:wink:

Glen
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You can also add Verhoeven billiard tables to the list also as they are a T rail as well. I'm moving one the end of this month, I hope it hasn't been corrupted....LOL

Jay
 
Mr Penguin said:
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. Albert Einstein
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Knowledge is power, the power to know what works and what don't work, and through "experience" we learn "Improvement" for we are billiards technicians....not rocket scientist. Improvement comes by way of trial and error, that is how you learn to build on imagination, to create change, learning from others is the wealth of the group, not the limit of it. Some ideas are just that, as they are not practical to put into application, other ideas make since, therefore they create changes, it's up to YOU to decide what makes since and what don't, then go with it. :wink:

I love it how some people like to throw out "ideas" as they're not the ones making a living from this trade, for if they were...they'd understand how crazy some of their ideas really are:D such as how to install bed cloths....without glue or staples....hahaha...bet you don't know how to do that one...do you?...Nope...I can't figure it out, please tell me....so I might improve with your great wisdom...oh great ones:D

Glen

PS. Mr. Penguin...would you like me to ask you the same questions I first asked of all the mechanics here on AZbillliards....in which no one answered...just to see if you can answer them?...naaaa, I think I'll pass...LOL
 
New to the forum and have been reading posts here for the past two months. Anyways, learned alot from you guys and because of the forum have been able to go out and do tables on my own. This forum is great. It allows people to learn this business without making unnecessary errors or spending the years and money you guys did figuring it all out.. Can’t even imagine how many people have done their tables on their own since finding this place, I see them all the time in here. You guys are turning this profession into something like a DO IT Yourself project with all of your advice.

Haven’t done a lot of tables but this idea makes sense. WOW, lots of great points but can we review the facts of this method that Glen has introduced? Let’s see? tack strips would cost about $1.5 the first time and free after that. Not alot of glue to smell or use and glue is expensive. Can stretch cloth in both directions back and forth, the only double stretch method out there. Can let sit and then stretch again later no problem. Saves the backer board. Don’t have to take out staples next time. Geese, the more I think about it the better I like it. Your hands are less fatigued as you can use nice pliers with a wide grab. You could use sheetrock screws and just unscrew them if you had to move the slate. Home Depot sells a box of 100 for less than $25. This system applies to probably more than half the tables made. Like with saws, you just use the one you need.

If it didn’t work why do carpet guys use them???

They don’t even have the benefit of an edge to help hold the cloth as they have to use these things flat. Maybe there is a way they can be used on the rails? I might look into their knee kickers also LOL



You guys are great!! thanks Mike
 
realkingcobra said:
First of all, you can't attach tack strips to bar table slates, second...If a slates backer boards are all stapled to hell, or made from particle board or MDF, they're more than likely stapled out as well. Then, when moving the slates, the tack strips are going to have to be removed in order to handle the slates. Then, you can't use them on T-bolt rails, as the rails bolt right up to the edge of the slates. Can't use them on Riley snooker tables either, as they have T-rails as well.

I think that a system of installing the bed cloths, if it's a perfect system...should apply to ALL forms of tables, and NOT to just a few select tables, and tack strips...can NOT work on all tables, so I consider it a waste of time. As far as I'm concerned, I put it right up there with hack work, as the only purpose of using them is to try and get in and out the door with the paycheck as fast as possible!:wink:

Glen
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So since you can't use feather strips on bar tables its a bad idea?
BS What I hear is that is if it isnt your way it's wrong. I think Mr Mongoose is right on this one. LOL
 
Mr Penguin said:
So since you can't use feather strips on bar tables its a bad idea?
BS What I hear is that is if it isnt your way it's wrong. I think Mr Mongoose is right on this one. LOL
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Well, later on this year you won't be able to use the tack strips on ANY Diamond tables either, as they're dropping the use of backer boards on all their slates....so I guess everyone's going to have to learn how to GLUE the cloth on...LOL I bet the tables from China follow suit, as they can save money not having to back the slates that come with their tables as well.

PS. Apparently all you read was that you can't put the strips on bar table slates, did you MISS the other tables mentioned as well? And hey, if someone wants to use tack strips to hold the cloth on the beds of the tables...be my guest, all I know is if I ever run across any tables done this way...they're gone!:wink:

Glen
 
TheMongoose said:
Can stretch cloth in both directions back and forth, the only double stretch method out there. Wrong...LOLCan let sit and then stretch again later no problem.If the cloth is installed tight enough the first time, it'll never have to be reattached again, as I've never had to go back and tighten up the bed cloth, and no problem??? you have to take the table apart again, clear down to the slates to re-stretch the bed cloth. Put it on tight the first time and never look back! Saves the backer board. What if the backer board is missing in chunks, you going to replace the backer board first, then attach the tack strips? Don?t have to take out staples next time. Still have staples to pull in the pockets:wink:

If it didn't work why do carpet guys use them??? Because it's the CORRECT way to install carpet...that's why
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Thanks for your comments Mike, welcome to AZ....LOL

Glen
 
TheMongoose said:
Suppose you could glue the strips on the slate same way you cloth. Thanks Mike
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Why not just glue the cloth....on all slates, then the work is the same no matter what kind of table you're working on? After all, why does anyone need multiple ways of installing bed cloths, if one way fits all?

Glen
 
TheMongoose said:
It might be better. Do it once and save costs,fumes, etc Now if only there was a trick for the pockets. Mike
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LOL - Do you mean like a clip-on bow tie only for pockets?

o_bowtie_untitled1.jpg
 
A-1 billiards said:
Hey Glen,

I've been hearing about this "tack strip" retro-fit recently. The first time was from a room owner that I gave no credibility to, the second was from a mechanic that is a credible guy. I've never used or seen this "fix" on any table I've personally have worked on. It sounds as if you have...:grin: . For the record though, what are the aspects of this method that make it a joke.

Thanks in advance.
Jay
Click to expand...
Exactly...where's the joke? I heard from a man I sold a Brunswick table to about 15 years ago yesterday. I remember the table because it used tack strip (from the factory) all the way around to hold down the cloth. I'll be taking some pictures and posting them soon.
 
Mr Penguin said:
Exactly...where's the joke? I heard from a man I sold a Brunswick table to about 15 years ago yesterday. I remember the table because it used tack strip (from the factory) all the way around to hold down the cloth. I'll be taking some pictures and posting them soon.
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You gave me a RED rep point because I didn't agree with you over this tack strip issue, so I'm going to ask you point blank...you said YOU sold this table you're referring to, and the tack strip was installed by the factory....OK, what manufacture built the table then? As far as tack strips go, if they were the best way to go, how come not ONE table manufacture today builds tables with tack strips? If they were the way to go, how come not ONE top mechanic today uses them? Ask Ernesto Dominguez, Mark Gregory, or ANY other top mechanic if THEY use tack strips? How come Brunswick don't use them, or Diamond, or Olhausen?

What's the real reason you gave me a RED rep point....did I screw up your plans to SELL tack strips or what?...LOL

A Brunswick table with tack strips...straight from the factory??? That's an out right lie, but I suppose they only build ONE table that way, and it was just for you...right? You're stepping in it deep buddy!

Glen

Brunswick has NEVER built a table using tack strips, not from the factory...you're blowing smoke on that statement!!!
 
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ChrisShanklin said:
Chevillotte from France uses tack strips or something like it. I have heard that they are on the outside of the slate, since it has no backing. Link is below, it is a god awful table when you see it in person it looks to be 3" too short.

http://www.chevillotte.com/en/espace-chevillotte-ligne-actuel-antares.php
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It's a 5/16" thick strip of wood almost as high as the slate is thick, bonded to the outer edges of the slate, used to staple the bed cloth to:D
 
So what do you do when you recover a table that has old glued cloth on it? Meaning how do you get it off when it has been glued on with that super strong glue?
 
ChrisShanklin said:
Chevillotte from France uses tack strips or something like it. I have heard that they are on the outside of the slate, since it has no backing. Link is below, it is a god awful table when you see it in person it looks to be 3" too short.

http://www.chevillotte.com/en/espace-chevillotte-ligne-actuel-antares.php
Click to expand...

Hey Chris,

As was stated, the Chevillotte (billiard tables at least) use a wooden perimeter as a tack board. There is no wood under the slate, just heating elements. Because the wood extends to the full width of the slate (50 mm) I prefer to use glue and staples when covering these carom tables.

For the record, I always glue, and only sometimes use both staples and glue according to the table.

Yes, the Chevillotte tables are very unusual looking but built very well.

Jay
 
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