started moving the cue ball with only stun

J

judochoke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
saw a video of a pro playing, and he made a shot that had me intrigued. so I started to try to make the same shot, and after a while, I was able to do the same exact shot. thats how I discovered that using just stun on the cue ball really moves the cue ball around.

I can now on a slightly angled shot, move the cue ball left or right, down either side of the long rail, using just low center with a stun stroke. adding just a touch of left or right and low center gets me going in the same direction.
totally different stroke than my draw stroke, and much easier.

sorry im so excited, but when the light blub goes off in my old brain, I get excited.:smile::smile:
 
judochoke said:
saw a video of a pro playing, and he made a shot that had me intrigued. so I started to try to make the same shot, and after a while, I was able to do the same exact shot. thats how I discovered that using just stun on the cue ball really moves the cue ball around.

I can now on a slightly angled shot, move the cue ball left or right, down either side of the long rail, using just low center with a stun stroke. adding just a touch of left or right and low center gets me going in the same direction.
totally different stroke than my draw stroke, and much easier.

sorry im so excited, but when the light blub goes off in my old brain, I get excited.:smile::smile:
Click to expand...
Why are you using side spin if you are not taking the cue ball to a cushion?

(For Dean: stun is when the cue ball arrives at the object ball without follow or draw. If the object ball is struck full on, it is a stop shot. Stun is a stop shot with an angle, in a sense.)
 
Stun will not move the CB on a straight shot.

However, any angle shot, the CB will travel at the 90° rule. This is the baseline of working shape for the leave. You know with stun where the CB will go. Now, with a little more than stun, a bit of draw, the CB will come off the OB at more than 90°, the more draw, the bigger that angle will be. Likewise, a bit of follow and the CB will come off the OB at less than 90°.

Tor Lowry is a big advocate of staying center on the CB and use only follow, stun or draw to get shape.

Had a friend whose Dad was a well accomplished player and he would say, you should never need to use more than one cue tip off center for english. I've practiced that and it's sound advice.

Something I learned from Dr Dave is that soft follow will get the CB to come off the OB with the smallest angle less than 90°.
 
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.
To play at top speed.. you must own the stop shot.
The stun line is an angled stop shot. When the CB
travels 90 degrees from your OB pocket line you'll
have CB control to miss interference balls & break
up ball clusters.

.
 
judochoke said:
saw a video of a pro playing, and he made a shot that had me intrigued. so I started to try to make the same shot, and after a while, I was able to do the same exact shot. thats how I discovered that using just stun on the cue ball really moves the cue ball around.

I can now on a slightly angled shot, move the cue ball left or right, down either side of the long rail, using just low center with a stun stroke. adding just a touch of left or right and low center gets me going in the same direction.
totally different stroke than my draw stroke, and much easier.

sorry im so excited, but when the light blub goes off in my old brain, I get excited.:smile::smile:
Click to expand...
Using the tangent-line and stun/follow/draw will get you around quite well. Keep it simple.
 
garczar said:
Using the tangent-line and stun/follow/draw will get you around quite well. Keep it simple.
Click to expand...

Yep. I cannot tell you how many amateur pool players I've witnessed screw up an easy runout trying to do way too much with the cue ball and getting out of line. It's almost like they are trying to impress people (or themselves) with how much spin they can put on a cue ball.

As far as stun goes...it was an eye-opener once I learned how to properly manage it.

Maniac (a simple-minded person who keeps things simple)
 
garczar said:
Using the tangent-line and stun/follow/draw will get you around quite well. Keep it simple.
Click to expand...

I'm missing something in reference to what a lot of documentation refers to as the "tangent". _IF_ the cue ball on the table is 0,0 (and why wouldn't it be?), shouldn't the tangent line be the line drawn from point A. (object ball) to point B. (cue ball)? In these books they just keep mentioning "tangent" with assumption to a rail, but they don't mark which rail is X or Y. So while one shot in reference could the side rail could be considered the tangent, the same shot in reference to the head rail would be the sin. To me it might be longer winded, but referencing it as the angle of reflection might be better than tangent... especially if you're just learning? Whatever, doesn't matter...

As far as stun on the actual cue ball, do you mean "warble"... jumping into and deflecting off the table into a magical spot on the object ball? That's stuff of legends. I've never seen it intentionally pulled off with properly balanced balls in real life or in a TV competition, just maybe 2 straight in jump shots gone wrong (accidental). If that is what you mean, do explain the procedure!!!! I've seen it once in one of those 80's magic VHS tapes that explains the physics of tricks. The magician obviously wasn't a pool player, and it probably took him months of practice and dozens of takes for the video... but he did it. I once practiced it for about 10 hours, never happened once, but the upshot was that for a few weeks I was pretty good at jumping off of other balls ::-)
 
yes im trying to spin around a obstacle ball using a little spin off the rail.

as a ex begginner, the funny thing is that all of this is shown on the various videos on you tube. DR DAVE, TOM LOWERY, BOB JEWETT all talk about this stroke and show how to hit it, but it took me a long time to understand it.

but after seeing the shot and practicing it, it clicked for me.

probably because there are so many things to learn in the beginning of learning to shoot pool, or maybe I just didn't stick with the basics long enough, but this shot is working well for me. :o
 
judochoke said:
yes im trying to spin around a obstacle ball using a little spin off the rail.

as a ex begginner, the funny thing is that all of this is shown on the various videos on you tube. DR DAVE, TOM LOWERY, BOB JEWETT all talk about this stroke and show how to hit it, but it took me a long time to understand it.

but after seeing the shot and practicing it, it clicked for me.

probably because there are so many things to learn in the beginning of learning to shoot pool, or maybe I just didn't stick with the basics long enough, but this shot is working well for me. :o
Click to expand...
Set up various cut-shots and make each one with stun, follow, and draw. Watch where CB goes with each. Learn these shots. Spin is great where necessary but you'll be amazed at how often you DON'T need it.
 
judochoke said:
saw a video of a pro playing, and he made a shot that had me intrigued. so I started to try to make the same shot, and after a while, I was able to do the same exact shot. thats how I discovered that using just stun on the cue ball really moves the cue ball around.

I can now on a slightly angled shot, move the cue ball left or right, down either side of the long rail, using just low center with a stun stroke. adding just a touch of left or right and low center gets me going in the same direction.
totally different stroke than my draw stroke, and much easier.

sorry im so excited, but when the light blub goes off in my old brain, I get excited.:smile::smile:
Click to expand...

The "stun" shot goes off the OB at a 90 degree angle. Learning how to do this at all distances and speeds with the cue tip control is very valuable. Once you're doing that well, learn to hit the OB with a little bit of roll after (on a straight shot for practice). We call this stop + 6" (or so). The is the way it works on a straight in shot for practice, but the real advantage is the angle the CB takes off the OB off an angle. If the tangent runs in to a ball or a scratch and you need a little follow, practice this shot. Here is a video I made a couple of years ago. This is center CB control around the table. https://youtu.be/fjEGe0_rP2k
 
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Cron said:
I'm missing something in reference to what a lot of documentation refers to as the "tangent". _IF_ the cue ball on the table is 0,0 (and why wouldn't it be?), shouldn't the tangent line be the line drawn from point A. (object ball) to point B. (cue ball)? In these books they just keep mentioning "tangent" with assumption to a rail, but they don't mark which rail is X or Y. So while one shot in reference could the side rail could be considered the tangent, the same shot in reference to the head rail would be the sin. To me it might be longer winded, but referencing it as the angle of reflection might be better than tangent... especially if you're just learning? Whatever, doesn't matter...

As far as stun on the actual cue ball, do you mean "warble"... jumping into and deflecting off the table into a magical spot on the object ball? That's stuff of legends. I've never seen it intentionally pulled off with properly balanced balls in real life or in a TV competition, just maybe 2 straight in jump shots gone wrong (accidental). If that is what you mean, do explain the procedure!!!! I've seen it once in one of those 80's magic VHS tapes that explains the physics of tricks. The magician obviously wasn't a pool player, and it probably took him months of practice and dozens of takes for the video... but he did it. I once practiced it for about 10 hours, never happened once, but the upshot was that for a few weeks I was pretty good at jumping off of other balls ::-)
Click to expand...

Tangent is a math term. It is defined as a line that touches the edge of a circle and is perpendicular to the line from the point it touches the circle to the center of the circle.

tangent-line.png


Immediately following a collision between two spheres of equal size and weight, the cueball will begin moving along the tangent line. That is, the edge of the cueball that contacted the object ball will move along that line. The center of the cueball will move along a parallel line 1/2 cue ball width's from that line. Forward or backwards spin on the cueball will cause it to bend away from that line.

Tangent is the correct term.

KMRUNOUT
 
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KMRUNOUT said:
Tangent is a math term. It is defined as a line that touches the edge of a circle and is perpendicular to the line from the point it touches the circle to the center of the circle.

tangent-line.png


Immediately following a collision between two spheres of equal size and weight, the cueball will begin moving along the tangent line. That is, the edge of the cueball that contacted the object ball will move along that line. The center of the cueball will move along a parallel line 1/2 cue ball width's from that line. Forward or backwards spin on the cueball will cause it to bend away from that line.

Tangent is the correct term.

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...

The CB can approach the OB from any angle.
If a CB slides as it contacts the OB at point A,
the CB runs the tangent before it starts rolling
and goes toward point B shown on the image.

.
 
I see a lot about center ball, or no English just high or low - but to me it's higher risk. If you want to move the ball around the table using only stun, or just high or low, it seems like you will be hitting a lot of shots really hard to get where a soft sidespin shot would get you. In my experience, the harder I see people swing to pull something off, the more they miss.
 
orion21 said:
I see a lot about center ball, or no English just high or low - but to me it's higher risk. If you want to move the ball around the table using only stun, or just high or low, it seems like you will be hitting a lot of shots really hard to get where a soft sidespin shot would get you. In my experience, the harder I see people swing to pull something off, the more they miss.
Click to expand...

Depends on the angle of approach going into the rail.

.
 
deanoc said:
i am not sure what stun is
is there a video explanation on az
Click to expand...
"Stun" is the CB hitting the OB with no follow or draw (sliding). The most common stun shot is a stop shot, but any cut angle can be hit with stun, causing the CB to follow the tangent line (90 degrees from the OB's path) after contact.

pj
chgo
 
garczar said:
Exactly. Nothing wrong with spin but you'll pocket way more balls without it. Especially on snug tables.
Click to expand...

Sure - but I hear advice about not needing spin etc. Just played a match last night on a triple shimmed diamond - dude only missed when he tried to stroke in in hard to stun/cheat a bit.

A small angle into a corner needing to move down table takes a large swing if you're not going to using spin once it gets to a rail. Just my opinion. I'll be the first to admit I use too much spin- I just see people hitting 2-3x harder when I don't think its necessary and the ball rattles.
 
orion21 said:
I see a lot about center ball, or no English just high or low - but to me it's higher risk. If you want to move the ball around the table using only stun, or just high or low, it seems like you will be hitting a lot of shots really hard to get where a soft sidespin shot would get you. In my experience, the harder I see people swing to pull something off, the more they miss.
Click to expand...

The "vertical" pool player is very fun to watch him play and if you know a teacher that teaches this, to take lessons. The center of the CB is the sweetest motion, and the best of a solid strike. Spinners are fun also, but my preference is the vertical player.
 
Ralph Kramden said:
If a CB slides as it contacts the OB at point A,
the CB runs the tangent before it starts rolling
and goes toward point B shown on the image.

.
Click to expand...


Actually the cueball will begin moving along the tangent line regardless of what spin is on the vertical axis. That spin (if any) will bend the ball away from the tangent line. With no spin (sliding), it will not bend away and continue along the tangent line. A subtle, but, I believe, important distinction.

KMRUNOUT


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