Statement from The Legends of Pocket Billiards

[gerryf]

Shaw said on the facespace he was coming back to tryto beat his own record. This thing is far from over.

I think the interesting question is what happened in the time leading up to, and in the midst of that 714 run. Up to that point, his daily BPI was only 61. Did he play differently than earlier in the evening, with his shot selection and pattern play? The stream ended with his 184th inning, but in the innings that followed was there any indication that he was about to increase his high run by 75%. Or was it just the way fortune rolled?

On SVB's third day, when he started to get a bunch of higher runs, and his 10-inning average BPI exceeded 120, I got interested in how his game might be changing as he progressed - an expert rotation player learning to play a different game on the fly.

Then when Ruslan played, there was a difference apparent even to me.

I thought it would be interesting to do an analysis of shot type and shot difficulty and how that might change for each player over time, and if there would be a discernible difference in the pattern chosen for the last three shots before the break shot.

I created a database of all the shots and of all the break patterns, winding up with a four-player combined total of about 28000 shots, and about 2000 breaks.

I would guess that if SVB or Jayson played this high run challenge for 1000 hours, they'd come up with a lot of the same tactics and patterns developed by long-time 14.1 players. Maybe not though, maybe they would just play 'rotation 14.1' with lots of cue ball movement and long shots.

If the rest of the stream is ever posted, maybe I'll pursue this again.

If Shaw does return to try again, and with what he learned during his turn at the table so far, would he be able to post a cluster of high runs, or would it just continue to be episodic?

It would be most interesting to have that comparison between a Filler and Shaw, or a Ruslan and Shane, or Orcollo and Hohmann.

 

[Z-Nole]

How about starting new records? High runs in the open category and high runs by age groups. Personally, I'd like to see some old timers play some more while they're still around.

I'm taking Ray Martin in the ancient division.

 

[RobMan]

Orcullo promised 1000. I think Filler just might. I love the tenacity in these guys. I've always been short in that department.

Of course Dennis will have to get his Visa situation fixed to do that here in the US. Hope he does. Totally agree about Filler's potential and your comment on tenacity. I would get so frustrated, I am sure I would break something!

 

[Dead Money]

Need accurate pocket dimensions in order to replicate the table, right? This IS the official 14.1 high run table now, isn't it?

Time to set up a website, a table, streaming equipment and good lights and start your own 14.1 challenge on a Diamond. You have all the questions and all the answers too it seems...show us!

 

[maha]

it likely will be deemed official. and that closes the arguments for what it is. 714 balls ran on a 9 foot pool table.

however we have to realize we cant compare these runs to mosconi's or others as each of those had totally different conditions.
and they were amazing runs as well. maybe better or maybe not, but not as many balls.

still now is time to standardize the conditons of the attempts and the equipment used.

my personal choice would be to use a standard table used regularly in professional pool tournaments. same size pockets, cloth, balls, etc. as well as the rack used and how they are racked. with a rack that is used in professional 14.1 events.
and preferably with it open to un biased spectators as well as videoed. not at all hard to do this.

although this may keep the present number from not being exceeded for a time or maybe not. but when its done there is no longer any controversy and all can try to best the record.

 

[RobMan]

it likely will be deemed official. and that closes the arguments for what it is. 714 balls ran on a 9 foot pool table.

however we have to realize we cant compare these runs to mosconi's or others as each of those had totally different conditions.
and they were amazing runs as well. maybe better or maybe not, but not as many balls.

still now is time to standardize the conditons of the attempts and the equipment used.

my personal choice would be to use a standard table used regularly in professional pool tournaments. same size pockets, cloth, balls, etc. as well as the rack used and how they are racked. with a rack that is used in professional 14.1 events.
and preferably with it open to un biased spectators as well as videoed. not at all hard to do this.

although this may keep the present number from not being exceeded for a time or maybe not. but when its done there is no longer any controversy and all can try to best the record.

re: the highlighted sentence. Records of course are always compared historically; I mean that is what is done in any sport. There are always arguments about conditions, equipment, etc. That will not go away. Take golf -- clearly the quality of the equipment is dramatically different in recent history and today than Arnold or Jack's time. Nevertheless, that does not take away from Tiger's records. Same as in tennis -- good gracious, put a racket of old (say Jimmy Connors or Bjorn Borg) up against today's standards. Drastic difference. So my only point is that historical record holders are the baseline; therefore comparisons will always exist.

 

[realkingcobra]

Time to set up a website, a table, streaming equipment and good lights and start your own 14.1 challenge on a Diamond. You have all the questions and all the answers too it seems...show us!

Funny you should mention that

 

[sjm]

I'm taking Ray Martin in the ancient division.

Not sure what the ancient division means, but if it means 70 years old or more, don't overlook Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe and Pat Fleming. If it means 80 years old or more, Ray Martin, Dallas West and Dan DiLiberto are the only three living golden age players I can think of at present.

 

[Shuddy]

Funny you should mention that

Oh boy, I hope I get banana bread if I attend!!

 

[Z-Nole]

Time to set up a website, a table, streaming equipment and good lights and start your own 14.1 challenge on a Diamond. You have all the questions and all the answers too it seems...show us!

Funny you should mention that

Look at me! Look at me! I’m relevant! I really am!!!

 

[Z-Nole]

Not sure what the ancient division means, but if it means 70 years old or more, don't overlook Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe and Pat Fleming. If it means 80 years old or more, Ray Martin, Dallas West and Dan DiLiberto are the only three living golden age players I can think of at present.

I’m not too sure how old Ray is these days, but he’s always looked and played waaaay younger than his age. Last time I ran into him was a couple years back up in Raleigh at the Brass Tap. He was giving a lesson to a regular and his stroke seemed no different than 20 years ago when he lived down by me.

Too bad Ray isn’t on AzB much these days. I’d like to hear what he has to say about Shaw’s accomplishment.

 

[JusticeNJ]

Not sure what the ancient division means, but if it means 70 years old or more, don't overlook Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe and Pat Fleming. If it means 80 years old or more, Ray Martin, Dallas West and Dan DiLiberto are the only three living golden age players I can think of at present.

Rempe (assuming he's up for it)! Edit: read your comment too fast - I see you mentioned Jim.

I think that would be great - Pat had mentioned a while back that he was thinking about a "Make It Happen" style event with Seniors. Pretty sure that's on indefinite hold from Accu Stats at this point. I remember watching the old ESPN (I think it was ESPN) Legends videos with Crane, Lassiter, etc. They were all way past their prime (though Lassiter still seemed dangerous) but it was really great to see them play one last time.

 

[fjk]

Not sure what the ancient division means, but if it means 70 years old or more, don't overlook Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe and Pat Fleming. If it means 80 years old or more, Ray Martin, Dallas West and Dan DiLiberto are the only three living golden age players I can think of at present.

If memory serves me, I believe someone on here plays with Danny regularly and said he still can run 100. That was last year I believe.

 

[realkingcobra]

Pool is the only sport that anyone can make up the rules as they go along. Pool don't even need standards, specifications, authorized equipment, official this or that, it don't matter. Hell, pool don't even have an official sanctioning body! It's no wonder why pool is leaving America for other countries. All America has to do is finish laying down, because its dead in this sport. We're no longer the leader in this sport, we've officially become the peanut gallery. A new official high run record, on some kind of equipment with buckets of unknown specifications, but who cares. On this basis alone, no one should complain if the record is broken again on a table with 6" corner pockets and 6 1/2" sides!!!! Buckets ARE Buckets, right!!!

 

[fjk]

I’m not too sure how old Ray is these days, but he’s always looked and played waaaay younger than his age. Last time I ran into him was a couple years back up in Raleigh at the Brass Tap. He was giving a lesson to a regular and his stroke seemed no different than 20 years ago when he lived down by me.

Too bad Ray isn’t on AzB much these days. I’d like to hear what he has to say about Shaw’s accomplishment.

I played Ray back in the 80s. I knew who he was but he looked like an old man to me back then (I was a teen). He beat me in a 9 ball tournament and then I made the mistake to ask him to play one pocket. I believe I lost ten straight racks or so. He was the most conservative, tightest player I ever played. Nothing fancy but no mistakes. I bet he took two or three intentional scratches a game. That day was an expensive lesson.

 

[realkingcobra]

I know of a Regina 9ft, 1912 model that has factory 6" corner pockets and 6 1/2" side pockets, that should do well for the next high run.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I would be excited to see this event continue. It would be fun to see what the limits are on what these guys can do.

Jayson ran 714 in 6 days and as amazing as that is, I can’t help but figure that he (and by extension other top players) can run more than that if they keep trying. They clearly improve over the course of the challenge so perhaps 800 isn’t out of the question or even more.

 

[JusticeNJ]

I would be excited to see this event continue. It would be fun to see what the limits are on what these guys can do.

Jayson ran 714 in 6 days and as amazing as that is, I can’t help but figure that he (and by extension other top players) can run more than that if they keep trying. They clearly improve over the course of the challenge so perhaps 800 isn’t out of the question or even more.

If Jayson didn't scratch on that last shot, it looked like he'd still be running balls right now.

 

[rjb1168]

Pool is the only sport that anyone can make up the rules as they go along. Pool don't even need standards, specifications, authorized equipment, official this or that, it don't matter. Hell, pool don't even have an official sanctioning body! It's no wonder why pool is leaving America for other countries. All America has to do is finish laying down, because its dead in this sport. We're no longer the leader in this sport, we've officially become the peanut gallery. A new official high run record, on some kind of equipment with buckets of unknown specifications, but who cares. On this basis alone, no one should complain if the record is broken again on a table with 6" corner pockets and 6 1/2" sides!!!! Buckets ARE Buckets, right!!!

What were the pockets on Mosconi's & Johns table. Please tell us! Seems like your just pissed that Jayson did it. Run your own event on a Diamond with 4 1/4" pockets and see who comes, NOBODY!

 

[garczar]

Not sure what the ancient division means, but if it means 70 years old or more, don't overlook Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe and Pat Fleming. If it means 80 years old or more, Ray Martin, Dallas West and Dan DiLiberto are the only three living golden age players I can think of at present.

Dick Lane is still kickin'. Hasn't played much in the last 10yrs but he does love 14.1