Strongest epoxies?

[whammo57]

Excuse me if I take that petsonal. If West system says that G5 doesn't bond well. That's pretty good advice as far as I'm concerned. I've done my own testing and I've been at it long eneogh to know what and why I like something and why I do not like it. Especially when it comes to ANY 5 minute epoxy. My personal opinion is that most of you 5 minute wizards are in a hurry for what reason, I have no idea and more importantly, I know longer care. If you started this thread. I wouldn't even have wasted my time to answer. So now that you think I'm an asshole and I have no respect for your 5 minute anything. We can agree to disagree on just about everything. So please take 2 of your 5 minutes and have a nice day.

didn't call you any names

I don't use G5

I don't build the whole cue with 5 min

you opinion is not fact

Kim

 

[KJ Cues]

Kim,

You're certainly welcome to use any epoxy that you find suitable. I think everyone else already does.
While 5-min may work for you with apparently astonishing success, some of us have found otherwise.
As has been stated, the biggest advantage to 5-min is it's cure-spd. That can also be a drawback.
The instant that the two prts of 5-min epoxy meet they start to cure and it gets thicker from there.
I want to see my epoxy SOAK into the wood and it will quite effectively if it's thin enough.
I have seen countless instances where the failure was caused by the epoxy not penetrating.
It sat on the surface and never wicked. Sometimes you can peel it off.
At this stage of the game I don't take chances, I go with what I know works.
No one is faulting you Kim, you're on your path. We've been that path and changed course.
Not to offend but these are my opinions also.

 

[whammo57]

Kim,

You're certainly welcome to use any epoxy that you find suitable. I think everyone else already does.
While 5-min may work for you with apparently astonishing success, some of us have found otherwise.
As has been stated, the biggest advantage to 5-min is it's cure-spd. That can also be a drawback.
The instant that the two prts of 5-min epoxy meet they start to cure and it gets thicker from there.
I want to see my epoxy SOAK into the wood and it will quite effectively if it's thin enough.
I have seen countless instances where the failure was caused by the epoxy not penetrating.
It sat on the surface and never wicked. Sometimes you can peel it off.
At this stage of the game I don't take chances, I go with what I know works.
No one is faulting you Kim, you're on your path. We've been that path and changed course.
Not to offend but these are my opinions also.

I appreciate your opinion as well as you sharing your personal experience.

I dropped all West products and now use Max 5 min and their 1618 epoxies. I have had absolutely no failures with these products and I don't feel a need to change at this time.

thank you

Kim

 

[JoeyInCali]

The subject was STRONGEST EPOXIES.
I dare you prove your 5-minute is stronger than slow set epoxies.
PS
Your cues have no A-joint. That's where the best epoxy is needed the most.
Talk about no failures when you're long dead and your cues are still around.

 

[rhinobywilhite]

The strongest epoxy I know is 3M DP-460.
It ain't cheap.
For our purpose, West 105 with different hardeners will work for most purpose.
They key is knowing hot it works.
Be forwarned, it does not give in to heat in case you need to blowtorch a screw.

So, what do you suggest for the joint pin?

 

[rhncue]

Kim,

You're certainly welcome to use any epoxy that you find suitable. I think everyone else already does.
While 5-min may work for you with apparently astonishing success, some of us have found otherwise.
As has been stated, the biggest advantage to 5-min is it's cure-spd. That can also be a drawback.
The instant that the two prts of 5-min epoxy meet they start to cure and it gets thicker from there.
I want to see my epoxy SOAK into the wood and it will quite effectively if it's thin enough.
I have seen countless instances where the failure was caused by the epoxy not penetrating.
It sat on the surface and never wicked. Sometimes you can peel it off.
At this stage of the game I don't take chances, I go with what I know works.
No one is faulting you Kim, you're on your path. We've been that path and changed course.
Not to offend but these are my opinions also.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and mike. I've been doing repair work for many years, well over 50. I've seen to many glue failures in that time that shouldn't have occurred in that time. I used to use G-5 doing assembly and repairs. About 10 years ago I changed to full strength epoxy for most all assembly and most repairs and don't have nearly as many of failures. In fact, I don't remember having any other than a tip or two over the years since I changed over. It's the smaller areas that need a good glue. deco-rings on shafts are what fails the most noticeabley as they fall off. It's harder to see but easier to hear or feel when an a-joint or a core has failed however.

Dick

 

[JoeyInCali]

So, what do you suggest for the joint pin?

West 105-206.
I meant to say it does not give in to heat easily.
I use brass and G-10 screws.
My steel screws are drilled SS ( to reduce weight ) .
I just make sure they are straight when installed.
Brass and G-10 can be machine out easily.

 

[pescadoman]

I like West, but why can't they figure a way to keep their fricken hardeners from turning red????

BTW... I've worked on boats for over 2 decades and have never seen West fail. That is good enough for cues as far as I'm concerned. If you are putting more stress on a cue than a 50 ton boat can when it's flexing, then something isn't right.

Strongest?? Maybe there are better, but at some point the price/performance exceeds common sense...

 

[j2pac]

I appreciate the input guys. So far the T-88 or West System seems to be the way to go at this point.

I work hard at improving things,and stay out of the mudslingin' crap that goes on here at times,and help out when I can,so it's nice to see this not turn into a pointless argument . Tommy D.

I can't remember exactly which one I used, only that it was a Devcon product, but I actually used that 1 to 1 epoxy to secure the back of a bathroom sink to a piece of wood. It is still holding.
j2

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Epoxy

I'm sure a good 5-min has it's place.
I use Devcon 2t on every assembly, even ferrules. I'm done being in a hurry.
8 hr min. cure time, rock solid after 24.
I use different epoxies for sealing prior to clear-coat.

I thought I'd better add this before the jury convenes.
Brand-name means very little, properties are what matters.
When a cue breaks, it isn't that the epoxy failed, the wood around it did or
the design construction was such that anything short of welding wouldn't have held.

I too use devcon 2 ton slow drying epoxy, Our local hardware store got bought out and they are moving the business .
They put everything on sale 50% off They had about 30 packages of the devcon 2 ton epoxy I bought every one of them.

Some time I use west systems 105/206

I don't use epoxy on the ferrules ( super glue )

The store also had sterilized surgical gloves
I cut a deal with them I bought all they had left, 8 cases 6 boxes to the case 50 pairs of gloves per box.

.

 

[KJ Cues]

As fate would have it, I had a similar experience; Walmart.
They stocked the 2T Devcon (5min also) but decided to discontinue and started selling a lesser brand.
I bought all the remaining 2T in the store. Well, I use a lot of epoxy and would run-out soon; what to do ?
The '2-part in one' dispensers aren't real handy for me so I started sourcing, something I'm good at.
What I'm comfortable with at present is 17oz (8.5oz ea prt) delivered to the door for $25. Devcon 2T.
I'm a happy camper. Check the online hobby stores.

Here's one to start with : http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXC026&P=M

I know, I should be ashamed.

 

[JC]

I have had some disasters in my young career with 2 ton setting up faster than I work. Yes I measured it exactly. Any batch larger than a butt cap worth is asking for trouble imo. I'm done with it, I don't care how strong it is. West systems for me thank you.

JC

 

[JoeyInCali]

I too use devcon 2 ton slow drying epoxy, Our local hardware store got bought out and they are moving the business .
They put everything on sale 50% off They had about 30 packages of the devcon 2 ton epoxy I bought every one of them.

Some time I use west systems 105/206

I don't use epoxy on the ferrules ( super glue )

The store also had sterilized surgical gloves
I cut a deal with them I bought all they had left, 8 cases 6 boxes to the case 50 pairs of gloves per box.

.

Learned frairing and how to use the powder and white tint with 206 a while ago and have not looked back.
Ditched Hysol and 3M epoxies myself.
And BSI and USC among them.

 

[KJ Cues]

This is clearly an example of : to each his own. That's the way it should be. We have options and plenty of them.
I didn't wake up one morning two weeks ago and decide I was going to be a cue-maker. I've been doing this 28 yrs.
Here's my point. I've developed techniques and procedures that are rock-solid. I know where the limits are.
I've been using Devcon that long and know how it works. I use it everyday and know how much time I've got.
After building a few hundred cues and several thousand Predator shafts, I'm pleased with this product.
No known failures. As 'slow-hand' says : "it's in the way that you use it". Works for me.

 

[Tommy-D]

I had to go to Nashville for a Dr appt at Vanderbilt yesterday so while I was in the area I went to Woodcraft and bought some T-88.

I'll report results soon as I have 'em :wink:. Tommy D.