Stunning news: FREE IPT Challenge Match: Johnny Archer vs. Earl Strickland

corvette1340 said:
this post deserves more love. The fact that people let dumps, scams, etc.. etc.. slide is the main reason pool has had and will continue to have such a bad image. The "guy's gotta eat" thing is goddamn ridiculous. A lot of people have to eat, but they don't do it by stealing or cheating or scamming. As I have said before, if playing pool on the square is not paying the bills then get another job for godsake.
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Corvette, you bring up a great point. There was a time that I was able to play full time. As life went on, I looked around at guys twice my age. They had been at it twice as long as I had. They had nothing to show for it.

I had to make a decision. I decided that living day to day financially was not something that I would enjoy for the rest of my life. I got an education. For those that like to toss shitballs my way and make snide comments, that education has propelled my standard of living above and beyond what any other person can promise me in life.

Yes, it was a trade off. However I like where I am at in life compared to those that are caught behind the 8 ball financially, waiting and wishing and hoping that someone like Kevin Trudeau will come along. Those that have seen me lately can attest to the fact that I am not starving.
:p

I pilot my own ship. Paying my bills is not determined on whether or not I can scrape up enough cash, win enough money, or if I can get someone like KT to fill my pockets just for showing up. As an adult, I sustain myself financially. I do this in a number of ways, not just playing. That's not selling out, that's just being smart. Pool is great, but I understand that I need more than that to maintain my lifestyle.

Money won is twice as sweet as money earned, however you won't win money all of the time no matter who you are or how good you play. That means that you need to have more than one avenue of income to survive in this world. If you don't, you deserve to reap the benefits of not having a backup strategy.

I enjoy having a new car, nice clothes, food on the table, etc. I also enjoy the fact that those things are dependent upon me and my desire to work my ass off in a number of ways to provide for myself. I also play pool 5-6 hours a day 3-4 times a week, excluding the time that I teach the game to others.

Life is not all about trophies and money and riding in limousines. I want my legacy to be about what I did for others, not for what I did for myself. I don't need an IPT card to feel like a success in the world of pool, and neither does anybody else.
 
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JAM said:
You have no idea what I have contributed to pool in an effort to advance the sport. The above-referenced statement has absolutely no merit.

Most tourney promoters like me and mine for a variety of reasons, but I will not dignify your ignorance by providing an explanation as to why.



And you never will. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

JAM
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How true. And mine is just as valuable. You often suggest that since the people on here have never played in an event that their opinions somehow mean less. The fact of the matter is that the people on here more than anywhere else have opinions that carry as much if not more weight than the players because the AZ community is who goes to the tournaments and pays the salaries, however low they are, of the players. Without all of the fans and spectators there would be NO tour and NO money. All of the negatives about KT is a testament for who he is and how he has treated the players. Like most everyone I would love for there to be a full time tour and I would support just like I always do for the PPV's and individual events. KT is never going to be a legitimate honest businessman and this latest attempt will no doubt end bad and with a scam attached. How can you support a man that intentionally charges peoples credit cards for things they didn't purchase? How can you support a man that has gone to prison for fraud and been fined countless number of times for fraud? How can you support a man that spit in the players faces and simply didn't pay them and then was forced to pay pennies at a time?
 
I hate to break the bad news, but NONE of this has anything to do with the success or failure of Pool as a viable professional sport in this country.

Not the IPT, not the "business" that may go on in Pool, not the bad behavior of any one player, not any of that has created pro Pool where it is today.

I place more of the blame and the responsibility on the powers that be, who have produced Pool on television in this country for so many years. They are the ones who have dropped the ball for us and the sport we love. Pool has been treated like a "filler" show on ESPN and thrown in at any time of the day needed to fill a vacant spot in the line up. They have subtly created the image of Pool as a sport of no consequence, and the rest of the media has followed suit. Take one look at the Pool related books that are on the market today. Or the articles that appear in newspapers from time to time. There is not one that relates to heros or champions in the sport. They are all about hustlers and rogues.

And what does ESPN give to prospective Pool fans besides a poorly produced show? Only old and very dated matches for the umpteenth time. And if you don't read the billiard publications, you wouldn't even know when these shows will be aired. The fact that they have convinced the promoters of the major professional events (men and women) to condense the final matches for television speaks volumes. And then these condensed matches are often edited even further to make sure they fit a one hour TV window.

There was (and is) and opportunity to show this game in the manner which we fans of Pool truly love. You know, entire matches and same day coverage with nothing left out. But no, somewhere a choice was made that pro Pool was a junk sport, akin to Hot Dog Eating or a Spelling Bee. That spelled the doom of pro Pool in America. And this is the image Pool has today for the average TV viewer. They see an unimportant sport shown in an abbreviated version with old dated matches being constantly replayed. Similar to what we see them doing with pro Bowling today. At least with Bowling they still play ten frames!

There is a far different version of Pool available to the rest of the world. This is the version where you see full length matches LIVE, with nothing left out. If the referee sneezes, you see it. If a player complains to the audience, you see it. If two players get in a spat, you see it. If a player makes an off color remark, you hear it (unless a word is bleeped). And lo and behold, they have an audience for these Pool shows. A very big audience! Tens of millions are watching to see if Roberto Gomez can hold it together or Darryl Peach can pull off another great safety.

So you want to know what's done Pool wrong in America. Just watch Billiards on ESPN. If you can find it!
 
corvette1340 said:
How true. And mine is just as valuable. You often suggest that since the people on here have never played in an event that their opinions somehow mean less....
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Nope, I never said that other opinions mean less. Those are your words.

Keith just read this thread and wants to respond. I told him to wait a few hours before he does. He did not like much of what he read on this thread and feels it is a shame that some people will go to the extreme to bash pool players, blaming them for the demise of pool as a sport in the United States. Just another opinion, I know, but one of many.

JAM
 
Blackjack said:
Corvette, you bring up a great point. There was a time that I was able to play full time. As life went on, I looked around at guys twice my age. They had been at it twice as long as I had. They had nothing to show for it.

I had to make a decision. I decided that living day to day financially was not something that I would enjoy for the rest of my life. I got an education. For those that like to toss shitballs my way and make snide comments, that education has propelled my standard of living above and beyond what any other person can promise me in life.

Yes, it was a trade off. However I like where I am at in life compared to those that are caught behind the 8 ball financially, waiting and wishing and hoping that someone like Kevin Trudeau will come along. Those that have seen me lately can attest to the fact that I am not starving.
:p

I pilot my own ship. Paying my bills is not determined on whether or not I can scrape up enough cash, win enough money, or if I can get someone like KT to fill my pockets just for showing up. As an adult, I sustain myself financially. I do this in a number of ways, not just playing. That's not selling out, that's just being smart. Pool is great, but I understand that I need more than that to maintain my lifestyle.

Money won is twice as sweet as money earned, however you won't win money all of the time no matter who you are or how good you play. That means that you need to have more than one avenue of income to survive in this world. If you don't, you deserve to reap the benefits of not having a backup strategy.

I enjoy having a new car, nice clothes, food on the table, etc. I also enjoy the fact that those things are dependent upon me and my desire to work my ass off in a number of ways to provide for myself. I also play pool 5-6 hours a day 3-4 times a week, excluding the time that I teach the game to others.

Life is not all about trophies and money and riding in limousines. I want my legacy to be about what I did for others, not for what I did for myself. I don't need an IPT card to feel like a success in the world of pool, and neither does anybody else.
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Blackjack,
I commend you on this. I have a friend that was a championship calibre player at one time and is still regarded as a great player, but he sleeps until 4 every day and drinks all night and doesn't have a dollar to his name. He has made tens of thousands of dollars playing and gambling at pool and now I have to pay his tab when we go out. He is in his early 30's and knows he can't make a living playing pool and will not get another job. The fact that you decided to do something for yourself is great and now you reap the benefits.
 
My first reaction was to this new earl/JA event was to knock the IPT as a joke and make fun at their efforts to create anything pool related.

Then I realized that I do not have a financial interest in this, unlike ALOT of people who do. I do not begrudge any pool player who is out there trying to pay the bills through some sort of event that has them playing pool, IPT or otherwise. When Loree Jon got paid big bucks at the first IPT event, even though there were a ton of female players who are way better players than her right now, it felt odd but I still was happy for her.

I'm rooting for anything that could help professional pool. Particularly in the USA, pool is on life support and the vital signs are not strong at all. If that charlatan KT can do something to get pool to a higher level I for one have decided I am not going to be an obstructionist.

All I can say to the players at this point is CAVEAT EMPTOR and GET THE MONEY UPFRONT FOLKS!
 
jay helfert said:
I hate to break the bad news, but NONE of this has anything to do with the success or failure of Pool as a viable professional sport in this country....
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Hear, hear, Jay. Very well said.

The BCA organization also could do more to promote professional pool. Though they are an industry member organization, I would like to see more attention given to other areas than what they have been focusing on in the past.

JAM
 
uwate said:
My first reaction was to this new earl/JA event was to knock the IPT as a joke and make fun at their efforts to create anything pool related.

Then I realized that I do not have a financial interest in this, unlike ALOT of people who do. I do not begrudge any pool player who is out there trying to pay the bills through some sort of event that has them playing pool, IPT or otherwise. When Loree Jon got paid big bucks at the first IPT event, even though there were a ton of female players who are way better players than her right now, it felt odd but I still was happy for her.

I'm rooting for anything that could help professional pool. Particularly in the USA, pool is on life support and the vital signs are not strong at all. If that charlatan KT can do something to get pool to a higher level I for one have decided I am not going to be an obstructionist.

All I can say to the players at this point is CAVEAT EMPTOR and GET THE MONEY UPFRONT FOLKS!
Click to expand...

David,

Your views are very similar to mine at this point. Despite what others may tell you, I hope that some of the guys are able to benefit from this venture. There are some out there that really need the money. The players just need to play this one from the driver's seat. Get everything in writing, be smart about it. If they do that and protect themselves from every angle then they will be ok.
 
jay helfert said:
I hate to break the bad news, but NONE of this has anything to do with the success or failure of Pool as a viable professional sport in this country.

Not the IPT, not the "business" that may go on in Pool, not the bad behavior of any one player, not any of that has created pro Pool where it is today.

I place more of the blame and the responsibility on the powers that be, who have produced Pool on television in this country for so many years. They are the ones who have dropped the ball for us and the sport we love. Pool has been treated like a "filler" show on ESPN and thrown in at any time of the day needed to fill a vacant spot in the line up. They have subtly created the image of Pool as a sport of no consequence, and the rest of the media has followed suit. Take one look at the Pool related books that are on the market today. Or the articles that appear in newspapers from time to time. There is not one that relates to heros or champions in the sport. They are all about hustlers and rogues.

And what does ESPN give to prospective Pool fans besides a poorly produced show? Only old and very dated matches for the umpteenth time. And if you don't read the billiard publications, you wouldn't even know when these shows will be aired. The fact that they have convinced the promoters of the major professional events (men and women) to condense the final matches for television speaks volumes. And then these condensed matches are often edited even further to make sure they fit a one hour TV window.

There was (and is) and opportunity to show this game in the manner which we fans of Pool truly love. You know, entire matches and same day coverage with nothing left out. But no, somewhere a choice was made that pro Pool was a junk sport, akin to Hot Dog Eating or a Spelling Bee. That spelled the doom of pro Pool in America. And this is the image Pool has today for the average TV viewer. They see an unimportant sport shown in an abbreviated version with old dated matches being constantly replayed. Similar to what we see them doing with pro Bowling today. At least with Bowling they still play ten frames!

There is a far different version of Pool available to the rest of the world. This is the version where you see full length matches LIVE, with nothing left out. If the referee sneezes, you see it. If a player complains to the audience, you see it. If two players get in a spat, you see it. If a player makes an off color remark, you hear it (unless a word is bleeped). And lo and behold, they have an audience for these Pool shows. A very big audience! Tens of millions are watching to see if Roberto Gomez can hold it together or Darryl Peach can pull off another great safety.

So you want to know what's done Pool wrong in America. Just watch Billiards on ESPN. If you can find it!
Click to expand...

Jay,
I agree with you here but the networks are going to go with what gets the most viewers (ie. football, basketball, baseball, golf). The question is this: how can the marketing of pool be changed to make it more attractive to the general public? One of the biggest draw factors for the big 3 sports is that you can place a wager on any random Tuesday night game and then it becomes interesting to watch. I think Vegas tried this several years back on a tournament and it ended with a dump for the highest odds guy.
 
corvette1340 said:
Jay,
I agree with you here but the networks are going to go with what gets the most viewers (ie. football, basketball, baseball, golf). The question is this: how can the marketing of pool be changed to make it more attractive to the general public? One of the biggest draw factors for the big 3 sports is that you can place a wager on any random Tuesday night game and then it becomes interesting to watch. I think Vegas tried this several years back on a tournament and it ended with a dump for the highest odds guy.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your question Vettester. I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe there is an audience for televised Pool in America. Millions of people who would watch a great pool match if it were available here. No one has given that to them yet.

You just gave me a great idea. I'm going to find out how difficult it would be to "buy" the feed from the WPC and put it on an American television network. There may be a place for such a show on another network besides ESPN. I'll get back to you. Thanks
 
Americans like to see the money. Plain and simple. This is the WSOP, nearly every new reality show.

Americana has become so lethargic and dull that people will set at home at night and watch someone else live their life. I absolutely have to agree with Jay, TV did it.

I believe it is pointless for the majority of the American pool-playing public to watch anything billiards related that has come on ESPN in the last 20 years. No average Joe understands the talent it takes to never miss. No one sees any excitement. I guarantee the ratings of a show placed in a solid action room would be exponentially higher than any WPBA event. Let the public see the excitement... woofing, gambling, games-making. Let them see a guy go into the corner with his partner and say this is the last $500 they have and how if they lose they'll be hitching a ride or pawning everything they own just to make it home. That kind of thing would get today's public.

Put Bartrum on TV, even better let Tedder or Scooter or Scotty Townsend or even Sarah Rousey let them take $10,000 put them on TV and see how far they can take it. Don't berate me for the names, but everyone of them is known for keeping the action going.
 
iba7467 said:
Americans like to see the money. Plain and simple. This is the WSOP, nearly every new reality show.

Americana has become so lethargic and dull that people will set at home at night and watch someone else live their life. I absolutely have to agree with Jay, TV did it.

I believe it is pointless for the majority of the American pool-playing public to watch anything billiards related that has come on ESPN in the last 20 years. No average Joe understands the talent it takes to never miss. No one sees any excitement. I guarantee the ratings of a show placed in a solid action room would be exponentially higher than any WPBA event. Let the public see the excitement... woofing, gambling, games-making. Let them see a guy go into the corner with his partner and say this is the last $500 they have and how if they lose they'll be hitching a ride or pawning everything they own just to make it home. That kind of thing would get today's public.

Put Bartrum on TV, even better let Tedder or Scooter or Scotty Townsend or even Sarah Rousey let them take $10,000 put them on TV and see how far they can take it. Don't berate me for the names, but everyone of them is known for keeping the action going.
Click to expand...

We're working on it. You listening Joe?
 
jay helfert said:
Thanks for your question Vettester. I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe there is an audience for televised Pool in America. Millions of people who would watch a great pool match if it were available here. No one has given that to them yet.

You just gave me a great idea. I'm going to find out how difficult it would be to "buy" the feed from the WPC and put it on an American television network. There may be a place for such a show on another network besides ESPN. I'll get back to you. Thanks
Click to expand...

Try FSN. They air pool events too.
 
iba7467 said:
Americans like to see the money. Plain and simple. This is the WSOP, nearly every new reality show.

Americana has become so lethargic and dull that people will set at home at night and watch someone else live their life. I absolutely have to agree with Jay, TV did it.

I believe it is pointless for the majority of the American pool-playing public to watch anything billiards related that has come on ESPN in the last 20 years. No average Joe understands the talent it takes to never miss. No one sees any excitement. I guarantee the ratings of a show placed in a solid action room would be exponentially higher than any WPBA event. Let the public see the excitement... woofing, gambling, games-making. Let them see a guy go into the corner with his partner and say this is the last $500 they have and how if they lose they'll be hitching a ride or pawning everything they own just to make it home. That kind of thing would get today's public.

Put Bartrum on TV, even better let Tedder or Scooter or Scotty Townsend or even Sarah Rousey let them take $10,000 put them on TV and see how far they can take it. Don't berate me for the names, but everyone of them is known for keeping the action going.
Click to expand...


Maybe a reality show with Tony Watson, Scotty Townsend, Chris Bartrum, LilJohn, SVB, and Keith McCready. Put them all in a bus at the start of December in California each with $1000. They can do nothing but gamble on the trip to Louisville that culminates with the Derby. They can hustle in bars, play in pool halls even though they are too well known, or bet on anything else as long as they gamble. They also have to eat and sustain themselves on the trip. Whomever has the most money at the end of the Derby wins the $100,000 or whatever the grand prize is. I know I would watch.
 
corvette1340 said:
Jay,
I agree with you here but the networks are going to go with what gets the most viewers (ie. football, basketball, baseball, golf).
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Generally true, but not always the most viewers. If there's enough of a certain type of viewer that advertisers want to reach, they'll go for it.
 
Da Poet said:
Generally true, but not always the most viewers. If there's enough of a certain type of viewer that advertisers want to reach, they'll go for it.
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Good Point. A lot of times Mercedes and upper echelon corporations will target golf telecasts due to the nature of the viewer.
 
corvette1340 said:
Jay,
I agree with you here but the networks are going to go with what gets the most viewers (ie. football, basketball, baseball, golf). The question is this: how can the marketing of pool be changed to make it more attractive to the general public? One of the biggest draw factors for the big 3 sports is that you can place a wager on any random Tuesday night game and then it becomes interesting to watch. I think Vegas tried this several years back on a tournament and it ended with a dump for the highest odds guy.
Click to expand...
You and Jay make very valid points.Your question "How can the marketing of pool be changed to make it more attractive to the general public"?
Two things that should be changed for television........
1)DON'T show trick shot episodes,it degrades our sport,makes it look cheap.In the publics eyes it turns it into a NON-SPORT.
2)I know I will take flack for this but 80% of the public plays 8-ball,NOT 9-ball.So for the common T.V. watcher,they don't care,its not what THEY play.
 
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