This all now seems cut and dried to be honest...
Is the OP (Greg is it?) a professional pool player then?
Past and/or present?
Is the OP (Greg is it?) a professional pool player then?
Past and/or present?
Super Billiards Ban from Playing!
- Thread starter ga9ball
- Start date
You With the Krane/Ukraine
Typical....old school....what's in it for me syndrome. Wonder if "Promoters" will jump into this discussion....I'd be surprised. Why? Its a Cry Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Uh moment, go figure.
Op's point of view...."I would not even be talking about this if I was told from the beginning that l can not play, but 5 minutes before my match, with all family and friends their to watch"
Typical....old school....what's in it for me syndrome. Wonder if "Promoters" will jump into this discussion....I'd be surprised. Why? Its a Cry Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Uh moment, go figure.
Op's point of view...."I would not even be talking about this if I was told from the beginning that l can not play, but 5 minutes before my match, with all family and friends their to watch"
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/zgjfkih04pd5e32/B15Open.pdf
You are right, I got him and Brett mixed up.
I would be very upset if I drove all the way to play in a SINGLE ELIMINATION tournament only to be put out by a player that wasn't even supposed to be in the tourney.
Good grief. This sort of thing is pathetic on so many levels.
How about this perspective, you played/supported many events and been at it for years and you finally make $550 and your now in the Middle like a Tweenager. No shot $$$ at the pro level, and NO Play at the level you've been at for Ever because of One weekend, hummmmmmmmmm. Typical. They should of let the Entire Field of Players VOTE on whether or not Allen H. miscued or not with that tack less Move.
By publishing a list of players to be excluded (apparently) in advance?
There is no tour, no organization for pro pool. BCA used to have a list of players, but it was outdated and nobody updated it. Now BCA shuns professional pool, it seems, yet they are our representative to the WPA. Go figure!
Allen needs to hire a subject-matter expert when accepting entry fees for these tournaments next year, someone who actually knows who's who. The staff he hires probably are not familiar with players from all regions around the country, much less the world. This is something that Allen could improve upon, having the names examined BEFOREHAND, before accepting the fees. If he's going to have an amateur tournament, he needs to have competent staff running the show, meaning looking at the names BEFORE accepting the entry fees.
Handling it this way, what happened to this poor guy, was terrible, to turn him away. I would have been LIVID.
IMO, when the pay is high for a tournament, and if it is not open for all; you subject tournament organizers/managers/directors to make risky decisions by rejecting and confronting players; let alone there is no exact list to pick from. Therefore, all amateur tournaments should localized to very small and restricted regions where everyone know each other.
How about if you produced some sort of list of players excluded from the amateur events?
http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/results_AmGuidelines/2014-excluded-players.html
I'm kinda torn on this. I think generally, they need better policing.
Yes, the criteria was available on the website long before the tournament, and I'm not anywhere NEAR pro status, but I read all of rules (including that page) before I entered. The OP is specifically listed by name as someone who's not allowed to play the amateur. And while Turning Stone is technically a regional Joss Tour event, I think it's pretty clear to most people that with the current lack of big tournaments, it's pretty much become one of the few majors of the year. It certainly attracts a major type field. And the OP finished higher than some recognizable pros (including Shaun Wilkie, who cashed at 13-16th in the pro 10 ball at SBE).
That said, it's also not fair to let other some people from those lists play and not let others. Danny Normandin shouldn't have played, and I heard Chip Compton was playing in the amateur... he won the pro one pocket event.
I guess the answer is really just to check entries against the list of names on the website before approving their registrations. It doesn't seem like something that would be that hard, and I'm a little surprised they're not already doing that. But I don't think they did anything wrong not letting the OP play. He should have read the rules before he entered, and if he did, he would have seen his own name in big letters under "not allowed to play." Then it was his call whether to enter the pro-am and/or one of the pro events or not come. It's not the event promoter's responsibility to make sure you read the rules.
Yes, the criteria was available on the website long before the tournament, and I'm not anywhere NEAR pro status, but I read all of rules (including that page) before I entered. The OP is specifically listed by name as someone who's not allowed to play the amateur. And while Turning Stone is technically a regional Joss Tour event, I think it's pretty clear to most people that with the current lack of big tournaments, it's pretty much become one of the few majors of the year. It certainly attracts a major type field. And the OP finished higher than some recognizable pros (including Shaun Wilkie, who cashed at 13-16th in the pro 10 ball at SBE).
That said, it's also not fair to let other some people from those lists play and not let others. Danny Normandin shouldn't have played, and I heard Chip Compton was playing in the amateur... he won the pro one pocket event.
I guess the answer is really just to check entries against the list of names on the website before approving their registrations. It doesn't seem like something that would be that hard, and I'm a little surprised they're not already doing that. But I don't think they did anything wrong not letting the OP play. He should have read the rules before he entered, and if he did, he would have seen his own name in big letters under "not allowed to play." Then it was his call whether to enter the pro-am and/or one of the pro events or not come. It's not the event promoter's responsibility to make sure you read the rules.
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Prize money is the problem, yet taking it away, definately not the solution
I agree 100% to be honest.
It is probably the case that human error allowed some excluded players to play. Letting one excluded player play just because another was accidentally allowed to play would not be a solution, however.
By that logic, Shane Van Boeing should have been allowed to play.
It is the responsibility for the tournament organiser to publish the rules in advance. The tournament organiser cannot be held responsible for a player entering not reading the rules.
Status is Explicitly spelled out.
The website is extremely specific concerning eligibility.
AMATEUR EVENT ELIGIBILITY -- Click here to go to Amateur Registration
In order to keep our amateur events truly competitive and truly amateur, we have developed a qualifying system to determine who is eligible to play. There are many high caliber players, and there are many who are immediately recognized as professionals. Our event is intended for great players from all over the world to come, have fun, and compete. But, it is for amateurs.
However, there is no clear defining line to determine who is a professional and who is not. We do our best to ensure that this event remains strictly amateurs.
Yes, there are a lot of great players in this event.
No, we cannot prevent every well-known amateur player from entering.
So, who is NOT allowed to play?
In an effort to protect the amateur-only status of this event, we have determined that anyone who meets any the following criteria can not be allowed to play in our Amateur Players Championship Series:
WHO IS NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY IN AN AMATEUR PLAYERS CHAMPIONSHIP:
** Click here to view an alphabetical list of all excluded players **
-- Top finishers in the following 2013/2014 events:
2013 Super Billiards Expo Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship -- view
2013 US Open 9-Ball Championship -- view list
2013 US Open 10-Ball Championship -- view list
2014 Derby City Classic - Any Division -- view list
2013 Turning Stone Classic, August -- view list
-- Any player on the most current WPBA List of Exempt Professionals The WPBA is the governing body of Women's Professional Billiards, so we will use their list of professional players. This list can be found on their website, click here
-- If you are from outside the USA and recognized or generally considered as a professional in your home country, you may be disqualified if this is brought to our attention. Please respect the amateur status of this event.
We reserve the right to use our own discretion in any questionable situation. If you think you are a player that any of these questions may apply to, please feel free to call and ask, you can reach us at (609)652-6116 or by email at info@superbilliardsexpo.com
We do our best to screen the field, and our system has been working well for 20 years. However, we do recognize that we cannot monitor every event around the world, and in absence of an organized governing body with a definite standard, we must take some steps to keep the event truly amateur.
If you notice any names in the field that you think merit consideraton as a professional player, please send your concern to us by email. Please be sure to include the player's full name and your reason that they should be considered professional. We will consider all submissions and make case-by-case decisions. Thanks, and good luck to all.
The website is extremely specific concerning eligibility.
AMATEUR EVENT ELIGIBILITY -- Click here to go to Amateur Registration
In order to keep our amateur events truly competitive and truly amateur, we have developed a qualifying system to determine who is eligible to play. There are many high caliber players, and there are many who are immediately recognized as professionals. Our event is intended for great players from all over the world to come, have fun, and compete. But, it is for amateurs.
However, there is no clear defining line to determine who is a professional and who is not. We do our best to ensure that this event remains strictly amateurs.
Yes, there are a lot of great players in this event.
No, we cannot prevent every well-known amateur player from entering.
So, who is NOT allowed to play?
In an effort to protect the amateur-only status of this event, we have determined that anyone who meets any the following criteria can not be allowed to play in our Amateur Players Championship Series:
WHO IS NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY IN AN AMATEUR PLAYERS CHAMPIONSHIP:
** Click here to view an alphabetical list of all excluded players **
-- Top finishers in the following 2013/2014 events:
2013 Super Billiards Expo Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship -- view
2013 US Open 9-Ball Championship -- view list
2013 US Open 10-Ball Championship -- view list
2014 Derby City Classic - Any Division -- view list
2013 Turning Stone Classic, August -- view list
-- Any player on the most current WPBA List of Exempt Professionals The WPBA is the governing body of Women's Professional Billiards, so we will use their list of professional players. This list can be found on their website, click here
-- If you are from outside the USA and recognized or generally considered as a professional in your home country, you may be disqualified if this is brought to our attention. Please respect the amateur status of this event.
We reserve the right to use our own discretion in any questionable situation. If you think you are a player that any of these questions may apply to, please feel free to call and ask, you can reach us at (609)652-6116 or by email at info@superbilliardsexpo.com
We do our best to screen the field, and our system has been working well for 20 years. However, we do recognize that we cannot monitor every event around the world, and in absence of an organized governing body with a definite standard, we must take some steps to keep the event truly amateur.
If you notice any names in the field that you think merit consideraton as a professional player, please send your concern to us by email. Please be sure to include the player's full name and your reason that they should be considered professional. We will consider all submissions and make case-by-case decisions. Thanks, and good luck to all.
From what I saw first hand at SBE this weekend there were a whole bunch of guys entered into the open who are the type who run around the country alot and play big sets at 4am on random tuesday nights. Hardly what you would call true working joe amateurs. IMO anyone who plays four and five figure sets on a regular basis is probably not what most people think is an amateur. These are the grey area guys that better characterized as professional amateurs. They play jamup, stay on the downlow as much possible and can be found in the midst of the backrooms at most events posting it on the lights.
I personally think that if there is a question as to ability, then they ought to also institute something whereby players could be asked to prove they have held a regular 40+ hr a week job continuously for a few years. But then even there you would have the exceptions like former pros that started working a while ago, but still maintain a fairly high level of play like Breedlove.
Its a thankless job trying to organize and run a huge amateur event because of this exact issue presented in this thread. Only worse job is running a huge amateur event that is handicapped. That's like turning up the whine-o-meter to a 10 and adding a few marshall stack amplifiers to it for good measure.
I personally think that if there is a question as to ability, then they ought to also institute something whereby players could be asked to prove they have held a regular 40+ hr a week job continuously for a few years. But then even there you would have the exceptions like former pros that started working a while ago, but still maintain a fairly high level of play like Breedlove.
Its a thankless job trying to organize and run a huge amateur event because of this exact issue presented in this thread. Only worse job is running a huge amateur event that is handicapped. That's like turning up the whine-o-meter to a 10 and adding a few marshall stack amplifiers to it for good measure.
The list is for people who don't know their status I'm pretty sure Shane knows his
The one that blows my mind is Dave Daya being allowed to play in the Seniors
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At some risk to myself, I'll chime in here. When I arrived in Valley Forge last Fall, Allen greeted me with "You're too good to play in the Amateur". Although I've only won a minor event at SBE, through the years I've been very successful. Understood Allen's position regarding total dollars won. My comment back to him was "if you do not want me to play, please let me know before I drive the five hours to the event". Needless to say, I didn't play well. Left without further discussion.
Although I was unable to attend this years event, I was registered in all three amateur events and the warm-up. Called Allen on Monday, March 10th and cancelled my entries. Allen mentioned he would refund my entries and has already done one event refund. Like Greg, if I'd have driven the five hours and then been asked not to play, I'd be pissed as well. Totally unfair to a supporting player.
Will I go next year? You bet. Allen's event is one of the highlights of my pool year. If it's held, I'll be back in Valley Forge as well. That is of course if I'm allowed to play. Being 70 years young is somewhat of a handicap
:grin: 
!
Lyn
PS Forgot to mention Allen also said "there will be a lot of players happy you won't be attending"! Now I understand why.
Although I was unable to attend this years event, I was registered in all three amateur events and the warm-up. Called Allen on Monday, March 10th and cancelled my entries. Allen mentioned he would refund my entries and has already done one event refund. Like Greg, if I'd have driven the five hours and then been asked not to play, I'd be pissed as well. Totally unfair to a supporting player.
Will I go next year? You bet. Allen's event is one of the highlights of my pool year. If it's held, I'll be back in Valley Forge as well. That is of course if I'm allowed to play. Being 70 years young is somewhat of a handicap
:grin: !Lyn
PS Forgot to mention Allen also said "there will be a lot of players happy you won't be attending"! Now I understand why.
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Super billiards ban from Playing
HI I played a few years ago at the Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge there was at least 1000 players in it
There are players that were playing in the Amateur that are as good as Pros and are allowed to play
I would say out of 1000 players maybe 50 players have a chance of winning this event.
However when i do go there i want to play and also visit the Cue venders and also like to watch the Pros Playing.
Cheers Leonard
HI I played a few years ago at the Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge there was at least 1000 players in it
There are players that were playing in the Amateur that are as good as Pros and are allowed to play
I would say out of 1000 players maybe 50 players have a chance of winning this event.
However when i do go there i want to play and also visit the Cue venders and also like to watch the Pros Playing.
Cheers Leonard
There's no way to police this. These guys are always going to exist, and they're always going to end up in amateur tournaments. It's just like the Olympics - those people are amateurs, but the state champion college pole vaulter (for example) is not going to beat an Olympian. The policy of excluding top finishers from major events is a good one (although I'd like to see them add bonus ball players to the list - I don't think there's any question that those guys are pros, and while we don't have a pro tour, that's about as close as we DO have). I also like the idea of excluding the top 75 or 100 places on the AZ men's money list for the last 3 years, and the top 25 or 50 on the women's.
But the more I think about it, the more it bothers me that they don't immediately check entries against the banned list. I mean, they manually upload all the names to their website once a week. How hard is it to check a list before you type that name?
