Suspicious about Frost-Reyes match

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fan-tum

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just got mine yesterday in the mail, and the game wasn't 5 innings old when I got an old sensation I haven't had in a while---it's called DUMP. Efren's early shot selections are questionable at best and suspicious on the whole. I'm going to get slammed for this post, don't care, but I've been watching superlative play from Efren for many years, and things don't add up. For instance on the fifth shot of the match Efren knocked in one of Frost's hangers, but whereas he always kills the cb into the pack after doing so, he lets the cb drift up table, giving Frost several possible banks. An open-minded person would at least consider the evidence on this dvd.
 
Are you aware that Efren was sick during this and his game has been slightly off for a couple years now? Oh, and yes, you will get slammed for this post. Another great example of comradity amongst pool players.
 
1on1pooltournys said:
Are you aware that Efren was sick during this and his game has been slightly off for a couple years now? Oh, and yes, you will get slammed for this post. Another great example of comradity amongst pool players.
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I'm not taliking anything away from scott here but you are right and he had driven about 6 hours that day to get there I think. All that is gonna maybe throw ya off a little.
 
fan-tum said:
Just got mine yesterday in the mail, and the game wasn't 5 innings old when I got an old sensation I haven't had in a while---it's called DUMP. Efren's early shot selections are questionable at best and suspicious on the whole. I'm going to get slammed for this post, don't care, but I've been watching superlative play from Efren for many years, and things don't add up. For instance on the fifth shot of the match Efren knocked in one of Frost's hangers, but whereas he always kills the cb into the pack after doing so, he lets the cb drift up table, giving Frost several possible banks. An open-minded person would at least consider the evidence on this dvd.
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Well first of all Efren now has more money that he has ever had (IPT) and also 6-7 years ago i was at the WPC in Cardiff, Efren was 12- 1 with the English bookies in one of the first stage matches and was already "through". He was approached by some UK Ex Patriots to dump and he would have no part of it. I certainly dont think at this stage of his career, it is much of a possibility. I havent seen the match.
 
fan-tum said:
Just got mine yesterday in the mail, and the game wasn't 5 innings old when I got an old sensation I haven't had in a while---it's called DUMP. Efren's early shot selections are questionable at best and suspicious on the whole. I'm going to get slammed for this post, don't care, but I've been watching superlative play from Efren for many years, and things don't add up. For instance on the fifth shot of the match Efren knocked in one of Frost's hangers, but whereas he always kills the cb into the pack after doing so, he lets the cb drift up table, giving Frost several possible banks. An open-minded person would at least consider the evidence on this dvd.
Click to expand...
If it was a dump by Efren IMO it wasn't the 1st time. I witnessed him dump a match a few years back.

I was at a tournament a few years ago and the finals were Bustamante vs. Reyes. Right before the finals began I found out an interesting tidbit of 411. Bustamante had 1/2 of himself in the calcutta and Reyes had not bought half of himself. I thought to myself, self, you already know how this is going to end so I made a few wagers on the rail. Everyone wanted Reyes so it was easy money and Reyes didn't disappoint me. He missed shots that a "C" player would make, I kid you not.
I will admit that money aside I was very disappointed as this was the 1st time I had the opportunity to see Efren play in person. I really wanted to see a great finals match up but when someone clued me into the calcutta situation I knew that this is what it is and they(Busta and Reyes) were going to do what ever put the most money in their pockets.

Unfortunately that's the reality of pool these days, it's all about the money.
 
George said:
I was at a tournament a few years ago and the finals were Bustamante vs. Reyes. Right before the finals began I found out an interesting tidbit of 411. Bustamante had 1/2 of himself in the calcutta and Reyes had not bought half of himself. .[/COLOR][/B]
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Just out of curiosity do you know how big the calcutta was or what players like bustamante went for. That would be a hell of a calcutta with players like that.
 
Nostroke said:
Well first of all Efren now has more money that he has ever had (IPT) and also 6-7 years ago i was at the WPC in Cardiff, Efren was 12- 1 with the English bookies in one of the first stage matches and was already "through". He was approached by some UK Ex Patriots to dump and he would have no part of it. I certainly dont think at this stage of his career, it is much of a possibility. I havent seen the match.
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This doesn't make sense as presented Nostroke. Efren was 12/1 to win a first stage match?!?!?!?! Are you sure? Do you mean 1/12? :confused:

The valleys of Wales are indeed strange and dark incestuous lands full of weird addictions to sheep and male voice choirs. However, embarrassing as it may be to the rest of Uk, Wales remains an integral part of Uk and citizens of other countries in Uk being in Wales for a pool tournament or even living there permanently doesn't make them "Uk expatriates" :smile:
 
George said:
If it was a dump by Efren IMO it wasn't the 1st time. I witnessed him dump a match a few years back.

I was at a tournament a few years ago and the finals were Bustamante vs. Reyes. Right before the finals began I found out an interesting tidbit of 411. Bustamante had 1/2 of himself in the calcutta and Reyes had not bought half of himself. I thought to myself, self, you already know how this is going to end so I made a few wagers on the rail. Everyone wanted Reyes so it was easy money and Reyes didn't disappoint me. He missed shots that a "C" player would make, I kid you not.
I will admit that money aside I was very disappointed as this was the 1st time I had the opportunity to see Efren play in person. I really wanted to see a great finals match up but when someone clued me into the calcutta situation I knew that this is what it is and they(Busta and Reyes) were going to do what ever put the most money in their pockets.

Unfortunately that's the reality of pool these days, it's all about the money.
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I suppose a dump is a dump but that is a very different dump to me.
 
$TAKE HOR$E said:
Just out of curiosity do you know how big the calcutta was or what players like bustamante went for. That would be a hell of a calcutta with players like that.
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I don't remember the dollar figure but I do remember it was huge, I believe the calcutta payout was bigger than the tourney payout. Reyes and Bustamante weren't the only champions there. This is the tournament:

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2003.php?eventnum=20

As you can see there were many champions there and neither of them were a lock but when they both made the finals the outcome was more than predictable.
 
I can only say this,as for Efren and his shot selection,alot of top one hole players will say it has never been the best,he would take fliers and the wrong shots but make them and get away with it,he is getting older and not making these shots as often.I was there and he was truly upset with himself when he made errors and when Scott used the jump cue he made a problem out of it and said that it was not allowed.I know anything is possible but doubt it is here. :cool:
 
Clearly a dump!

This was clearly a dump. I have also seen dumps in every tournament I have ever seen. Top players missing easy shots. I just watched Buddy Hall and Keith the first time they played with a measle ball. Buddy dumped. Had to have, he missed an easy shot. Some of these dumps are even two-way dumps with the two players both trying to dump to the other one. Maybe the bet was a parley?

The heck with all of my other excuses for missing. Anytime I miss a ball from now on I'm just going to tell everyone I decided to dump!

Hu
 
George said:
If it was a dump by Efren IMO it wasn't the 1st time. I witnessed him dump a match a few years back.

I was at a tournament a few years ago and the finals were Bustamante vs. Reyes. Right before the finals began I found out an interesting tidbit of 411. Bustamante had 1/2 of himself in the calcutta and Reyes had not bought half of himself. I thought to myself, self, you already know how this is going to end so I made a few wagers on the rail. Everyone wanted Reyes so it was easy money and Reyes didn't disappoint me. He missed shots that a "C" player would make, I kid you not.
I will admit that money aside I was very disappointed as this was the 1st time I had the opportunity to see Efren play in person. I really wanted to see a great finals match up but when someone clued me into the calcutta situation I knew that this is what it is and they(Busta and Reyes) were going to do what ever put the most money in their pockets.

Unfortunately that's the reality of pool these days, it's all about the money.
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I remember that match with Bustamante and he definitely did dump. I was disgusted by it. I know a lot of players will agree to split the prize money in a final but they still play to win, so i don't really mind that so much, but outright dumping is sickening to me. I haven't seen the Frost/Reyes match but when I first heard that Frost had won I was instantly suspicious of a dump.
 
ShootingArts said:
This was clearly a dump. I have also seen dumps in every tournament I have ever seen. Top players missing easy shots. I just watched Buddy Hall and Keith the first time they played with a measle ball. Buddy dumped. Had to have, he missed an easy shot. Some of these dumps are even two-way dumps with the two players both trying to dump to the other one. Maybe the bet was a parley?

The heck with all of my other excuses for missing. Anytime I miss a ball from now on I'm just going to tell everyone I decided to dump!

Hu
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Love it Hu,if I ever play league pool and lose a match I will say I dumped for some beers. :p
 
Efren didn't dump that match with Scott.
My padrino ( his sone is my godson ) drove him there.
The night before they partied. They left early morning to AZ .
Efren had a hang-over and a long drive.
Hell, his road manager and best friend fell asleep during the match.
Also, Efren had an appearance guarantee.
How hungry could he be for that match?
 
ShootingArts said:
This was clearly a dump. I have also seen dumps in every tournament I have ever seen. Top players missing easy shots. I just watched Buddy Hall and Keith the first time they played with a measle ball. Buddy dumped. Had to have, he missed an easy shot. Some of these dumps are even two-way dumps with the two players both trying to dump to the other one. Maybe the bet was a parley?

The heck with all of my other excuses for missing. Anytime I miss a ball from now on I'm just going to tell everyone I decided to dump!

Hu
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LOL. Rep not allowed but have banked the excuse for future use :)
 
Somebody said there was a Train wreck??? where are the bodies??? Maybe the wreck hasn't happened yet and I should move along before I'm part of the entertainment:eek:
Jason<---will take his own advise.:thumbup:
 
efren is in his 50s and is human. he cant always play like a god.
plus scott is one of the best there is in 1hole.gotta give him some credit
 
There's nothing wrong with dumping.

I really don't understand what all the fuss is with pool players about dumping. Hell, I've played lots of matches over the years where I felt like I needed to take a dump. I usually do it before the match, or wait 'til the match is over, but I can well understand that once in a while you just gotta go during the match. Take a break, take a dump, no big deal. Leave Efren alone.
 
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