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From the people whose livelihood is not worth nothing.
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Tail stock offsetting
- Thread starter Enigmaticul
- Start date
Free info
Free advice
From the people whose livelihood is not worth nothing.
No one is afraid that you are going to take money out of their pockets. Don't be silly.
These are well established makers, all, and you won't come close to duplicating their style even if they told you to a tee how they did it.
It's not about sharing closely guarded secrets.
For a good example, during a wood core matching thread, I pmed Eric Crisp and asked him a question. He all but told me how to build a Sugar Tree cue.
Was he afraid to let out any secrets, no, because he wasn't afraid that I would do any harm. He asked me not to take his info and regurgitate it on AZ
like it was my own, that's all. Someone else was already good at doing that.
Funny thing was, he purposely left out certain pertinent info. That's was mine to figure out by myself. If I could do it, then I might be one step closer.
So there ya go, he gave me enuff to get me started and figured if I wanted it bad enuff, I would do the rest on my own.
That was helping me but not giving me everything and I appreciated the parts that he did give me. I expected no more and got more than I bargained for in the first place.
He took me from A to B, then left out C, D, and we picked it back up at E. and so on. That sort of stuff. If I wanted it, I had to figure out what was between B and E.
Will I ever build a Sugar Tree cue?. No way. Not even close, it will be my own but certain parts of my cue will contain many cue makers help along the way but most importantly, my cues will contain many of my corrected mistakes as well.
These are well established makers, all, and you won't come close to duplicating their style even if they told you to a tee how they did it.
It's not about sharing closely guarded secrets.
For a good example, during a wood core matching thread, I pmed Eric Crisp and asked him a question. He all but told me how to build a Sugar Tree cue.
Was he afraid to let out any secrets, no, because he wasn't afraid that I would do any harm. He asked me not to take his info and regurgitate it on AZ
like it was my own, that's all. Someone else was already good at doing that.
Funny thing was, he purposely left out certain pertinent info. That's was mine to figure out by myself. If I could do it, then I might be one step closer.
So there ya go, he gave me enuff to get me started and figured if I wanted it bad enuff, I would do the rest on my own.
That was helping me but not giving me everything and I appreciated the parts that he did give me. I expected no more and got more than I bargained for in the first place.
He took me from A to B, then left out C, D, and we picked it back up at E. and so on. That sort of stuff. If I wanted it, I had to figure out what was between B and E.
Will I ever build a Sugar Tree cue?. No way. Not even close, it will be my own but certain parts of my cue will contain many cue makers help along the way but most importantly, my cues will contain many of my corrected mistakes as well.
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We are living in a time of instant gratification populated by a bunch of people who just don't understand.
We are living in a time of instant gratification populated by a bunch of people who just don't understand.
There are three kinds of men.
- The one that learns by reading.
- The few who learn by observation.
- The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
Will Rogers
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.
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- The one that learns by reading.
- The few who learn by observation.
- The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
Will Rogers
.
.
.
At least this time I didn't get 9 PMs telling me what an A Hole I am and an uneducated bum, unlike him, because I own a taxi plate and worked it on the street until it was paid for.
And many F words. I use the F word too much myself but at least if you are going to PM me and call me an AHole, I would prefer you didn't call me a FKin AHole.
And many F words. I use the F word too much myself but at least if you are going to PM me and call me an AHole, I would prefer you didn't call me a FKin AHole.
First off, Enigmaticul, let me start by saying I am not taking sides in this argument. I agree with asking about things you do not know about, and I also realize that sometimes, you need to just try on your own and see what happens. I have been around lathes and mills off and on for over 20 years, ever since I got out of the Air Force and started working in factories. I don't know a ton of machine work, but I learned some here and there, never been an apprentice, but have had journeymen and masters both teach me a few things.
I believe part of some peoples' problem with your approach is your attitude. In the past, and sometimes in the present, you ask questions, and you merely expect someone/anyone to tell you exactly how things should be done. When someone/anyone tells you that in order to TRULY LEARN how it is done, you should go try doing it, you get offended, and then you get passive/aggressive or even offensive. I don't know if you actually mean to do this or if it is just a by-product of your personality, but trust me, I see it (this is how my wife is sometimes, we get into arguments because she starts yelling at me, I get defensive, which in turn pisses her off, and she starts yelling louder.).
Another problem I see here is I think you misunderstand something very basic about cue making. I have talked to MANY MANY cue makers, some of whom do it totally for a living, and believe me, if you are strictly a cue maker, there are very few who make a good living at it, most cue makers get by, and if you do a little looking online, you will notice that a LOT of cue makers sell parts, machinery, materials, tools, etc. because there is more money in THAT business than there is profit in making cues.
Here's an example for you: You buy $40 worth of AAA grade birdseye maple, enough for say a butt and a forearm. You buy enough ebony for 4 points, let's say, and I am guessing here, $60. Now you need handle material, if you go cheap, maple dowel, maybe $20 or so. Now you get general materials, sandpaper, glue/epoxy, joint pin, connecting pins, piece of phenolic for the joint/butt cap. Let's say you have another $40-60 in all of that. Now you also need a shaft, so you buy a mostly turned shaft dowel, and you slowly turn that down over the course of a year. You have less than $300 in materials, but probably over $200, and if you take your time, letting the wood rest inbetween cuts, you may have a cue finished in a year. You will probably have 80+ hours of work involved in it, a very basic cue, from a beginner cue maker, $200-$300 in materials, and if you ONLY charge $10/hour for your labor, you will have to sell that cue for $1000-$1100 JUST to make a measly $10/hour. AND in the meantime, you will have countless hours of downtime, where you aren't doing anything other than waiting for the wood to settle after machining it, unless you buy a LOAD of wood and start yourself an assembly-line process where you have 40+ cues in production all at the same time. Now, how much money do you think there is in cue making? I have made 2 cues. I have watched Joe Barringer's complete DVD set at least a dozen times, and I have read Chris Hightower's book probably 20 times or more. I STILL KNOW that I have a TON more to learn, I am nowhere near where I want to be, need to be, and I thank GOD that I have a VERY good paying job otherwise I will NEVER get to buy my own equipment, tools, and supplies to "indulge" myself with what I truly LOVE to do for a "hobby". I want you to succeed, really, because I honestly think that when you get to where you want to be, you will look back and think "Man, I can't believe some of the things I did and didn't do, and I wish I could do them differently". I hope you really truly take these people's advice to heart, I know I do, and if these cue makers tell you to try something and see what happens, TRY IT. You are asking them for advice, and that is the advice they give you, and then you are spitting in some of their faces saying that their advice is $HIT. It may not be the advice you WANT, but it is what is given, and most of them have been where you are, and just might want you to learn the best way.
If I have offended you, I am sorry, that was not my intent. I just want you to sit back, take a look, and maybe realize that when asking for freebies, whether it be materials or information, whatever is given has cost you nothing, maybe you should be thankful for what you have been handed.
With respect, and best wishes for your success
Jim Notestine
I believe part of some peoples' problem with your approach is your attitude. In the past, and sometimes in the present, you ask questions, and you merely expect someone/anyone to tell you exactly how things should be done. When someone/anyone tells you that in order to TRULY LEARN how it is done, you should go try doing it, you get offended, and then you get passive/aggressive or even offensive. I don't know if you actually mean to do this or if it is just a by-product of your personality, but trust me, I see it (this is how my wife is sometimes, we get into arguments because she starts yelling at me, I get defensive, which in turn pisses her off, and she starts yelling louder.).
Another problem I see here is I think you misunderstand something very basic about cue making. I have talked to MANY MANY cue makers, some of whom do it totally for a living, and believe me, if you are strictly a cue maker, there are very few who make a good living at it, most cue makers get by, and if you do a little looking online, you will notice that a LOT of cue makers sell parts, machinery, materials, tools, etc. because there is more money in THAT business than there is profit in making cues.
Here's an example for you: You buy $40 worth of AAA grade birdseye maple, enough for say a butt and a forearm. You buy enough ebony for 4 points, let's say, and I am guessing here, $60. Now you need handle material, if you go cheap, maple dowel, maybe $20 or so. Now you get general materials, sandpaper, glue/epoxy, joint pin, connecting pins, piece of phenolic for the joint/butt cap. Let's say you have another $40-60 in all of that. Now you also need a shaft, so you buy a mostly turned shaft dowel, and you slowly turn that down over the course of a year. You have less than $300 in materials, but probably over $200, and if you take your time, letting the wood rest inbetween cuts, you may have a cue finished in a year. You will probably have 80+ hours of work involved in it, a very basic cue, from a beginner cue maker, $200-$300 in materials, and if you ONLY charge $10/hour for your labor, you will have to sell that cue for $1000-$1100 JUST to make a measly $10/hour. AND in the meantime, you will have countless hours of downtime, where you aren't doing anything other than waiting for the wood to settle after machining it, unless you buy a LOAD of wood and start yourself an assembly-line process where you have 40+ cues in production all at the same time. Now, how much money do you think there is in cue making? I have made 2 cues. I have watched Joe Barringer's complete DVD set at least a dozen times, and I have read Chris Hightower's book probably 20 times or more. I STILL KNOW that I have a TON more to learn, I am nowhere near where I want to be, need to be, and I thank GOD that I have a VERY good paying job otherwise I will NEVER get to buy my own equipment, tools, and supplies to "indulge" myself with what I truly LOVE to do for a "hobby". I want you to succeed, really, because I honestly think that when you get to where you want to be, you will look back and think "Man, I can't believe some of the things I did and didn't do, and I wish I could do them differently". I hope you really truly take these people's advice to heart, I know I do, and if these cue makers tell you to try something and see what happens, TRY IT. You are asking them for advice, and that is the advice they give you, and then you are spitting in some of their faces saying that their advice is $HIT. It may not be the advice you WANT, but it is what is given, and most of them have been where you are, and just might want you to learn the best way.
If I have offended you, I am sorry, that was not my intent. I just want you to sit back, take a look, and maybe realize that when asking for freebies, whether it be materials or information, whatever is given has cost you nothing, maybe you should be thankful for what you have been handed.
With respect, and best wishes for your success
Jim Notestine
Enigmaticul
Banned
It was all good until blue hog had to step in and shit on my tread again. Boy if I ever meet that guy face to face.....
Thanks for the kind words Jim but there is a lot ob assumption around.
Asking is not demanding number 1
Trying costs money so I want to try and fail as less as possible. Wasting wood and materials is not my cup of tea.
I am getting tired of Az frankly because for every spoon of honey I have to eat of bucket of shit.
Thanks for the kind words Jim but there is a lot ob assumption around.
Asking is not demanding number 1
Trying costs money so I want to try and fail as less as possible. Wasting wood and materials is not my cup of tea.
I am getting tired of Az frankly because for every spoon of honey I have to eat of bucket of shit.
No, it was only a mater of time before someone would say something.
The same people have said pretty much the same to you previously.
And if you ever meet me face to face.
I'm 55 now and admittedly considerably slower these days but it would be funny to see you try and roll the old man down the hill.
Buts that's why I have many friends. Not a fighter or a tough guy, none of my buds are either. But, trust me Bud, I don't roll easily.
That's is a funny anology. I have had more honey and zero shit. Wonder why that is.
That's the same with life in general. When you start getting too much honey, someone upstairs throws you a couple of challenges. It's how you deal with those challenges that determines how much honey you get in the future.
The same people have said pretty much the same to you previously.
And if you ever meet me face to face.
I'm 55 now and admittedly considerably slower these days but it would be funny to see you try and roll the old man down the hill.
Buts that's why I have many friends. Not a fighter or a tough guy, none of my buds are either. But, trust me Bud, I don't roll easily.
That's is a funny anology. I have had more honey and zero shit. Wonder why that is.
That's the same with life in general. When you start getting too much honey, someone upstairs throws you a couple of challenges. It's how you deal with those challenges that determines how much honey you get in the future.
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Enigmaticul
Banned
Ey BHQ just who are f are you to judge me. Keep your trap shut.
who am i?
im the guy that can think for himself
im the guy that learned on his own by trying , and trying, and trying till getting it right
that's who the fukk i am
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Enigmaticul
Banned
Correction, your are a fallus
Enigmaticul
Banned
Took you a little to google that did it?
no, i went to another forum and asked for help because i was too lazy to figure it out on my own
:thumbup:
that's how it's done nowadays, right
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guess he wont be getting any help if he trys to build any butterflies......
It seems the only thing Eg doesn't need to ask for help on is how to spit in a bunch of topnotch cuemakers faces....must be a natural talent :grin::grin:
Oops, here comes another red one from him, I can feel it coming........
DAve
It seems the only thing Eg doesn't need to ask for help on is how to spit in a bunch of topnotch cuemakers faces....must be a natural talent :grin::grin:
Oops, here comes another red one from him, I can feel it coming........
DAve
I'm going into hiding. Can you put me up for a couple of weeks Brent.
I'll buy the beer.
If he wants us, he will have to go thru Stevie first.
Ah, I forgot, Egbert doesn't have any nuts, Stevie wouldn't be interested.
Maybe Dave has room too. I spent time for two summers in Springfield.
Man, them was some good grinders. We call em subs, they call em Grinders.
I used to get big messy Meat ball grinders that you were lucky if you didn't wear half of them
On your shirt.
Plus I really loved the New England architecture. Some really old beautiful mansions there.
I'll buy the beer.
If he wants us, he will have to go thru Stevie first.
Ah, I forgot, Egbert doesn't have any nuts, Stevie wouldn't be interested.
Maybe Dave has room too. I spent time for two summers in Springfield.
Man, them was some good grinders. We call em subs, they call em Grinders.
I used to get big messy Meat ball grinders that you were lucky if you didn't wear half of them
On your shirt.
Plus I really loved the New England architecture. Some really old beautiful mansions there.
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Wow
Brent is one of the nicest people on this forum and one of the few that will openly help anyone that is in need of assistance. You should really step back and look at how you could have possibly caused even him to have this attitude towards you.
Brent is one of the nicest people on this forum and one of the few that will openly help anyone that is in need of assistance. You should really step back and look at how you could have possibly caused even him to have this attitude towards you.
I have a room after the First of June, my daughter is moving out. I'm outta work for neck surgery, how good are you at cutting lawns??
maybe you can finish my CNC machine under my supervision...I'll supply the coors light
Dave