tailstock alignment

BHQ

BHQ

we'll miss you
Silver Member
recently i noticed a problem
things just weren't jiving out correctly
drilled holes weren't straight
things were fine & dandy , then all of a sudden they weren't
it was driving me nuts

let me start by saying that i was offsetting my tailstock occasionally
i would realign back to center with a #5 morse taper in the headstock and my #2mt in the tailstock
run the tailstock up to it and line them up point to point
thought everything was ok
but then the problems began
like i said it was driving me friggin' nuts

one night about midnite i got a burr up my butt and decided to tear the tailstock apart
there were several metal shims under there that i guess had moved or something, from me offsetting it maybe???
it was lining up point to point ok, but it couldn't possibly have been perfectly parallel to the bed, actually it was low on the far end of tailstock, pointing upwards. i don't know how far off it was, but enough to booger things up

my question is:
what is the best way to check this?
to insure that it's on the money
i'm going to borrow a line from scotty (brickman)
talk to me like i'm a 5 yr old :rolleyes:
thanks
brent​
 
Lining things up

Hey Brent, I'm glad you've asked this question (so as I don't seem like the D:eek: A:D )

Do you have any dial indicators that you can use to see if the shaft/butt is running true???

I'm looking at adding a plate below my lathe bed to attach a magnetic base so that I can use an indicator to check things out :rolleyes:

It's the little shit that bites ya in the a'urse of course ;)
 
Check the point to point at 1 inch sticking out of the quill.
Then 3 inches out. IF there is a variance, you know the tailstock shims are off.
 
BHQ said:
recently i noticed a problem
things just weren't jiving out correctly
drilled holes weren't straight
things were fine & dandy , then all of a sudden they weren't
it was driving me nuts

let me start by saying that i was offsetting my tailstock occasionally
i would realign back to center with a #5 morse taper in the headstock and my #2mt in the tailstock
run the tailstock up to it and line them up point to point
thought everything was ok
but then the problems began
like i said it was driving me friggin' nuts

one night about midnite i got a burr up my butt and decided to tear the tailstock apart
there were several metal shims under there that i guess had moved or something, from me offsetting it maybe???
it was lining up point to point ok, but it couldn't possibly have been perfectly parallel to the bed, actually it was low on the far end of tailstock, pointing upwards. i don't know how far off it was, but enough to booger things up

my question is:
what is the best way to check this?
to insure that it's on the money
i'm going to borrow a line from scotty (brickman)
talk to me like i'm a 5 yr old :rolleyes:
thanks
brent​
Click to expand...


HEY BRENT.....I am up to about an 8 year old now :cool: :D :D ;) ;)

How ya been ? I have been sick as a dog, Whole family has.

BTW I would have added some kind of real answer to this thread, but most people prefer usefull advice, instead of mine :p :D :D :D
 
BHQ said:
recently i noticed a problem
things just weren't jiving out correctly
drilled holes weren't straight
things were fine & dandy , then all of a sudden they weren't
it was driving me nuts

let me start by saying that i was offsetting my tailstock occasionally
i would realign back to center with a #5 morse taper in the headstock and my #2mt in the tailstock
run the tailstock up to it and line them up point to point
thought everything was ok
but then the problems began
like i said it was driving me friggin' nuts

one night about midnite i got a burr up my butt and decided to tear the tailstock apart
there were several metal shims under there that i guess had moved or something, from me offsetting it maybe???
it was lining up point to point ok, but it couldn't possibly have been perfectly parallel to the bed, actually it was low on the far end of tailstock, pointing upwards. i don't know how far off it was, but enough to booger things up

my question is:
what is the best way to check this?
to insure that it's on the money
i'm going to borrow a line from scotty (brickman)
talk to me like i'm a 5 yr old :rolleyes:
thanks
brent​
Click to expand...

Take a long threading tap or a reamer that is straight and has a hole in the head of it. These holes are centered very accurately. Put this into your chuck and see that it is running true. Now take two dial indicators and mount one on top of the tap and one on the side so that movement in any direction can be observed. Put a dead center in your tale stock and do as Joey said. With the tail stock up close to the chuck and the lock tightened to eliminate play, put pressure on the dead center and see what direction, if any, the tap is diverted. Do this again with the tail stock backed away from the tap.

This will tell you exactly how much your tail stock is out of alignment to the bed of the lathe and the front of the chuck. For true accuracy though you need to be sure your bed is perfectly level an not twisted and that your head stock is mounted to the bed perfectly straight and level before doing this procedure as both of these elements will cause the same problems you are experiencing.

A metal lathe is very dependable, accurate and a pleasure to operate but it must be properly set up and on a pretty sturdy foundation to live up to it's true potential.

Dick
 
I have mentioned this before , I believe, but if you get a boring head mounted on a Morse taper for your tail stock and put a live center into one of the holes, you can now easily move this to offset the rear of the cue without ever changing the settings of your actual tail stock. If you've got plenty of money you can get a number of these and set each one up for a different operation such as turning prong length or handle length or complete cue lengths and if needed even forearms for cutting V grooves although there are better ways of accomplishing that.

Dick
 
Dicks method is as good as any. Another way of getting there is to have a test bar (at least 12") made on a cylindrical grinder.
Turn a new 60 degree center in the chuck, and put a live or dead center in the tailstock. Run the test bar between the centers.
Set up a test indicator in your tool post up against the test bar, and run your carriage back and forth on the test bar. Note how much it is off, and adjust your tailstock in half measurement increments.
It helps to do this at top dead center, and 90 degrees towards you.
Chuck
 
rhncue said:
I have mentioned this before , I believe, but if you get a boring head mounted on a Morse taper for your tail stock and put a live center into one of the holes, you can now easily move this to offset the rear of the cue without ever changing the settings of your actual tail stock. If you've got plenty of money you can get a number of these and set each one up for a different operation such as turning prong length or handle length or complete cue lengths and if needed even forearms for cutting V grooves although there are better ways of accomplishing that.

Dick
Click to expand...

Here's a link to a picture of the boring head setup Dick is describing.

http://www.cuecomponents.com/bohese.html
 
rhncue said:
Take a long threading tap or a reamer that is straight and has a hole in the head of it. These holes are centered very accurately. Put this into your chuck and see that it is running true. Now take two dial indicators and mount one on top of the tap and one on the side so that movement in any direction can be observed. Put a dead center in your tale stock and do as Joey said. With the tail stock up close to the chuck and the lock tightened to eliminate play, put pressure on the dead center and see what direction, if any, the tap is diverted. Do this again with the tail stock backed away from the tap.

This will tell you exactly how much your tail stock is out of alignment to the bed of the lathe and the front of the chuck. For true accuracy though you need to be sure your bed is perfectly level an not twisted and that your head stock is mounted to the bed perfectly straight and level before doing this procedure as both of these elements will cause the same problems you are experiencing.

A metal lathe is very dependable, accurate and a pleasure to operate but it must be properly set up and on a pretty sturdy foundation to live up to it's true potential.

Dick
Click to expand...
thanks dickie, appreciate it. i had a similar idea last nite after posting this. i was thinking of chucking up a bearing i have with a 1/2" diameter opening & using a 12" long 1/2" drill bit , putting my indicators at the end of bit closest to tailstock to see if there's any movement. i like your idea better!!! ;)
 
BHQ

You can also run a quick check to see if you have an alignment problem by bring the tail stock center point to point with the headstock center just like you mentioned, but put a single razor blade between them. Hold the blade vertical, and bring the points together on the flat sides of the blade until the blade is pinched between them. Then rotate the chuck by hand and watch the blade. If it tilts any at all, you have an alignment problem.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
tailstock alignment.

You might try a centering indicator. Chuck it up in the headstock.
And it has an arm that you can sweep the tail stock quill or anything chucked up in the tail stock to make sure it's centered. I know sometimes it's the easiest way to turn a taper, but offsetting the tail stock isn't the most accurate way of doing it. Your are offsetting the center on one end of the piece, but not the other, so the center in the headstock end of the piece isn't concentric with it's drive center anymore and you are just running on the edge of the center. Especially if you are using large centers. Then put some pressure on it so you can take a cut and you are actually distorting the center. If you don't have a taper set up, not a lot you can do about it, but something to think about. Also, don't trust your drill chuck, try indicating a drill bit once it's chucked up. A little dirt in the Morse taper, or faulty jaws on the chuck, or just scroll slop and the tail stock can be dead on, but the the tool can be off. Just part of the fun.
 
Extend the spindle out of the tailstock a couple of inchs and run the cross-slide mounted dial indicator on top of it to check and see if it is square with bed. Use two dowel pins of exact same size in headstock and tailstock to check tailstock height to know it is the same as headstock. I wrote you a pretty long expanation of this last night and lost it when I clicked submit. Was so mad I gave up and went to bed. I saw this morning most of my points were covered so you just get the short version now.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Last edited:
rhncue said:
A metal lathe is very dependable, accurate and a pleasure to operate but it must be properly set up and on a pretty sturdy foundation to live up to it's true potential.

Dick
Click to expand...

Good post Dick.............
The importance of this can not be stressed enough. One might think that cast can not or will not flex. I beg to differ! Make an investment in a machinist level and make it part of your routine to check your lathe bed twice a year for level. You can make all the adjustments you want to any part of your machine but if it's not level and on a rock foundation your wasting your time!
 
You can also simply turn your own test bar. Put a chunk 'o metal shaft between centers and turn it round. Then measure both ends ; if the centers are perfect then the diameter of the bar will be the same at both ends.

Dave
 
alignment

I use two 6 in. pcs. of drill rod (not dropped, mint condition). One in chuck, and another in tailstock. With a dial indicator on tool post, you can check for bed twists and misalignment. If you chose, you can grind centers on each and bring them together. Thanks for your help Brent and good luck, Kent
 
i just did steve kleins test first
it was evident real quick that tailstock was tilted upward
then i did it dickies way
same result
then i did another thing of my own
i put chuck in tailstock with a 1/2" x 12" long shank bit
locked everything down and ran my indicator across top of shank for 6"
it was a variance of 1/1000th
i put a 1000th shim on ass end of tailstock and did it all over
it's nuts now
thanks guys​
 
Tailstock Alignment

When you bring the points of 2 dead centers together, don't trust your eye. Use an eye loop. It will amaze you, how far off you are, when you think they are perfect...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
When you bring the points of 2 dead centers together, don't trust your eye. Use an eye loop. It will amaze you, how far off you are, when you think they are perfect...JER
Click to expand...
what is an eye loop?
 
BHQ said:
what is an eye loop?
Click to expand...

Get yourself about 3 or 4 of these so you don't spend half the day looking for the "ONE" you have!

eye_loupe.jpg
 
Your tailstock needs to be flat on the ways and on center height with the headstock. If there are shims in it, sounds to me that somebody replaced the tailstock on the lathe and it was not at correct height.
If it is tilted front to back, it is usually a sign that there is a chip, gaul or something between the tailstock casting and the base casting. Find that and lightly file it smooth. If the rock is caused by shims, you will on have continued problems with the tailstock alignment.
If it is shimmed, every time you unclamp the tailstock, you take a chance of shifting a shim and causing a misalignment.
The bottom of the tailstock and the ways where they sit do not normally wear very much, not a normal moving part of the lathe.
Side to side alignment is pretty easy, getting it on center height and keeping it there will be your real problem.
Safe turning,
Kenny
 
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