Tar 35

TATE said:
Why not let them use the break cue? Personally I like the idea of being able to use a break cue to jump with.

I always thought that it was a bad rule to allow jump shots but only with the playing cue. It's unfair to the player who prefers soft tips and LD shafts. Some playing cues are almost impossible to jump with - while others can easily jump.

A full length and weight cue limits the shots anyway. The types of jumps Dennis was making were classic pool, Earl-style long shots. The couple that he tried that were short he messed up pretty good.

Shane's defense against the jump shot is obvious: if you mess it up you'll probably be sitting out the next three or four racks.
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To me the goal of no jump cues is to showcase kicking and reward good safety play. Playing a safety with perfect speed and position only to have the guy hop up and jump right of it is annoying to almost every single player I have asked about it at our matches. Almost everyone says they do not want jump cues but if they are allowed they will use them because they basically have to.

Its possible to what if anything to death of course. I mean what if a guy likes breaking with his playing cue so he sets up his break cue just for jumping? Take one of the short Mezz break cues, slap a phenolic tip on it and you have a pretty good jump stick at your disposal disguised as a break cue.

If the goal is to end the equipment end arounds and simply have guys kick more and jump less (which it is for TAR) then only allowing jumps with a playing cue does that.

Dennis did absolutely nothing wrong as most tournaments allow jumping with the break cue when jump cues are not allowed. It was my fault for not communicating properly.

I probably made a bigger deal out of it than I should have. I was just tilted a little that I screwed up and did not consider all the possibilities. I take making the format and rules of our matches very seriously so when I screw the pooch on one it bothers me.
 
JCIN said:
To me the goal of no jump cues is to showcase kicking and reward good safety play. Playing a safety with perfect speed and position only to have the guy hop up and jump right of it is annoying to almost every single player I have asked about it at our matches.
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If you play a 'perfect' safety, it removes the chance of using a jump cue to begin with. If you're hearing players complain that they played a perfect safety yet their opponent jumps out of the hook, then it wasn't very a perfect safe was it? I always here commentators on streams making the remark when someone plays a safety, he wants to leave the cb frozen to an ob. Does that still not hold true when jump cues are banned? It should. A perfect safety completely removes the use of a jump cue to begin with.

To me the use of no jump cues rewards the lesser skilled player. It allows them to play looser safeties, not get lock up positions, leave wide open jump shots. But because of no jump cues rule, they get rewarded for a poorly played safety.
 
After last night it is now evident.

Shane is the best rotation player EVER!


:p


(had to say for 420trooper)
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
If you play a 'perfect' safety, it removes the chance of using a jump cue to begin with. If you're hearing players complain that they played a perfect safety yet their opponent jumps out of the hook, then it wasn't very a perfect safe was it? I always here commentators on streams making the remark when someone plays a safety, he wants to leave the cb frozen to an ob. Does that still not hold true when jump cues are banned? It should. A perfect safety completely removes the use of a jump cue to begin with.

To me the use of no jump cues rewards the lesser skilled player. It allows them to play looser safeties, not get lock up positions, leave wide open jump shots. But because of no jump cues rule, they get rewarded for a poorly played safety.
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I disagree.

If a guy is kicking out of a spot and has to hit a precise three rail kick and the best he can do is roll behind some balls with four or five inches space and he hits that then he should be rewarded.

This happens all the time when a guy misses and leaves his opponent hooked.

I'll tell all the guys that play on TAR you said they are wrong.
 
JCIN said:
I disagree.

If a guy is kicking out of a spot and has to hit a precise three rail kick and the best he can do is roll behind some balls with four or five inches space and he hits that then he should be rewards.
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So player A plays a lock up safe on player B. Player B shoots a 3 rail kick to hit the ball, having a space barely the width of two balls to get through. Or to? If its to, then player A is faced with a very difficult jump, ball width or less. most likely losing control of the cue ball due to how close/hard of a jump it is. Rewarding player B for his return safe. If its past, just to get a hook, but allowing a wide open jump. Isn't that player A's reward for his initial safe?
 
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I'll tell all the guys that play on TAR you said they are wrong.[/QUOTE]

Some more funny shit there...
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
So player A plays a lock up safe on player B. Player B shoots a 3 rail kick to hit the ball, having a space barely the width of two balls to get through. Or to? If its to, then player A is faced with a very difficult jump, ball width or less. most likely losing control of the cue ball due to how close/hard of a jump it is. Rewarding player B for his return safe. If its past, just to get a hook, but allowing a wide open jump. Isn't that player A's reward for his initial safe?
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I honestly can not follow what you are saying.

There is no doubt in my mind we can sit here and come up with dueling hypothetical scenarios to justify our postions. It isnt going to change my mind.

So once again two people disagree on the internet.
 
JCIN said:
I honestly can not follow what you are saying.
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Maybe you can then explain what you meant by the 3 rail kick, 4-5 inches of room. Because how you wrote it sounds like a player is kicking out of a safety played against them, but its not clear as to where the cue ball ends up.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
Maybe you can then explain what you meant by the 3 rail kick, 4-5 inches of room. Because how you wrote it sounds like a player is kicking out of a safety played against them, but its not clear as to where the cue ball ends up.
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It was a general hypothetical situation to illustrate a point. It looks I failed which happens.

I dont really want to get into a long back and forth about why I view the subject the way I do. I just do based on experience and interaction with the people who play TAR matches. I'm sure some or many will disagree. So it goes.
 
First and foremost, JCIN, congrats on a wonderful match and production to this point. I watched the entire session yesterday and will do the same tonight. When one of the game's superstars finds their highest gear, it's an incredible treat for anybody lucky enough to be watching.

As for the jump shot rule, I'd suggest that you clarify the rule at the beginning of the webcast tonight and not waste any more time on it. This dead horse was beaten enough times in last night's commentary. I admire you for taking responsibility for what may have been a grey area in the rules, but it's time to move on.

Thanks for TAR 35 and for all the wonderful TAR matches.

FYI, whether to spend $35 for this TAR match or watch Bonus Ball for free was one of the easier pool-related decisions I've made this year.
 
Mika, DeChaine et al feeling better now

No one can overcome an IN FORM SVB on 'his' table or anywhere else he can get that break working i guess.

Anyone have an opinion how 90% of the time no one else can get that break? He doesnt even hit it harder does he?
 
Nostroke said:
Mika, DeChaine et al feeling better now

No one can overcome an IN FORM SVB on 'his' table or anywhere else he can get that break working i guess.

Anyone have an opinion how 90% of the time no one else can get that break? He doesnt even hit it harder does he?
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Dennis found the break a few times. Balls going in the side, one ball in the corner with cue ball popping and squatting. He is certainly capable of it.

I think it comes down to practice and precision with a little bit of luck in missing the kisses. Shane said last night at dinner some of the Taiwanese players break as good as he does. Ko Pin Yee (sp) specifically he said would be a very difficult guy to play.
 
JCIN said:
I dont really want to get into a long back and forth about why I view the subject the way I do. I just do based on experience and interaction with the people who play TAR matches. I'm sure some or many will disagree. So it goes.
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From my personal experience, I use my jump cue more due to poor position play, not from people playing safeties on me. But as a onlooker to these events, seeing players handicap themselves due to personal taste is absurd. It allows players to play weaker safeties. Shouldn't the best players in the world be held to a higher standard? If they feel that a jump opens they game up more and easier, then play better safeties eliminating the chance to even use a jump cue.

It should be a test of skill, not a test of rules.

Nostroke said:
Anyone have an opinion how 90% of the time no one else can get that break? He doesnt even hit it harder does he?
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Ever look at how much his body moves during the break compared to other people? John Barton started a thread a while back about athletes in pool, showing a picture of Jasmine Ouschan breaking and getting air time. Just because it looks like someone is breaking hard doesnt mean they are getting proper energy transfer.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
From my personal experience, I use my jump cue more due to poor position play, not from people playing safeties on me. But as a onlooker to these events, seeing players handicap themselves due to personal taste is absurd. It allows players to play weaker safeties. Shouldn't the best players in the world be held to a higher standard? If they feel that a jump opens they game up more and easier, then play better safeties eliminating the chance to even use a jump cue.

It should be a test of skill, not a test of rules.



Ever look at how much his body moves during the break compared to other people? John Barton started a thread a while back about athletes in pool, showing a picture of Jasmine Ouschan breaking and getting air time. Just because it looks like someone is breaking hard doesnt mean they are getting proper energy transfer.
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I have noticed he seems to break from his hip (the only way i can half ass say it). I dont see anyone else quite doing that and some people i spoke with dont think he breaks from the hip at all. FWIW

A couple years ago he relied on those 4 railers. It was incredible how the seas would part and they both would go in pretty often. I didnt notice that so much last night but i konked out during the break .
 
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JCIN said:
Shane said last night at dinner some of the Taiwanese players break as good as he does. Ko Pin Yee (sp) specifically he said would be a very difficult guy to play.
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Ko Pin Yi on TAR would be awesome ! so would be Wu Chia Ching ! They both will be in Vegas for the US Open next month....maybe TAR 36 ?? god, this would be great !
 
sascha said:
Ko Pin Yi on TAR would be awesome ! so would be Wu Chia Ching ! They both will be in Vegas for the US Open next month....maybe TAR 36 ?? god, this would be great !
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good call, be amazing, JCIN is doing such great shows now, they always been great just greater!!!
 
sascha said:
Ko Pin Yi on TAR would be awesome ! so would be Wu Chia Ching ! They both will be in Vegas for the US Open next month....maybe TAR 36 ?? god, this would be great !
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Shane needs a steady diet of guy's like this. They might finally wear him down. Right now he looks like a world beater!

Personally I'd love to see Wu play a match. He is just so damn good! At his best, he toyed with everyone else. I saw him literally demolish good players. When Darren beat him in the finals of the World Ten Ball three years ago, it was one of the most gutsy performances I ever saw.
 
http://www.playbca.com/Events/2013USOpenProEvents.aspx

This is the link (updated as players register) to show who will be here for the US Open events.

Sasha - thank for telling me that WU will be in the US.

I did not recognize his name (with the Chinese spelling).

This is awesome!!!

Our US Open will have some real world beaters!

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
American Billiard Club League
 
Years back....I remember a small window in time, when at a bar tournament, that I drove ALL day and past dinner to get to. This yahoo pulls out a galvanized 1/4'' pipe approx. 24'', with a solid plastic end. Super ball is what whitey became. I've NEVER in life seen pro 3 cushion or snooker players talk about ways to get up/over another ball, am I wrong. :dance: And if Not, then Why do pool players think they are entitled, when all other disciplines its NOT.:shakehead::shrug::scratchhead:
 
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