TAR and its future...(dosent look good IMO)

hey mike

AzHousePro said:
So far today, there have been over 1,700 registered users on the forums.

There were just under 10,000 user sessions on the forums yesterday.

Mike
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didnt you just make the board on the wpba?:thumbup:
 
AzHousePro said:
So far today, there have been over 1,700 registered users on the forums.

There were just under 10,000 user sessions on the forums yesterday.

Mike
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THAT'S ALOT OF TRAFFIC.....I KNEW THERE WERE ALOT OF AZER'S, BUT DIDN'T THINK IT WAS THAT HIGH.
 
I have one word: TIMESHIFTING

I would gladly buy all the matches TAR covers if I could either download them or stream them in something other than REAL TIME.

Why? Because very often in real time I have no time to spend hours watching a pool program.

Very often my bandwidth sucks and I can't get the live stream.

But I LOVE to download videos and watch them during free time. My car mates love it when I play a video of a pool match during our 45 minute commute.

I am not really sure how to protect the downloads and that is probably the heart of the issue. But something like AccuStats online PPV should be doable.

As for audience size - people are busy in their lives and have many things to capture their attention. Even a football game is only four hours.

Anyway that's my 2cts worth about .00005cts on the JB Exchange rate.
 
The DVD sales wouldn't be possible if one could simply download the videos. And surely some jack*** would put it up for free as soon as they watched it. Maybe you could work out a way to have a seperate page on TAR.com where you could log in to a specific video to buffer/download it. Somehow make it where you couldn't save it to your computer.
 
I still would prefer monthly fees over PPV events. I think $30 per is too much. Just like renting a movie... it's only $2-5, however, rent a bounch every day and it soon turns into a lot. I spend $50 a month for cable and can watch TV 24 hours a day. If every show I liked were PPV, I would watch other shows.

I love playing and watching pool, but for $30, I am going out and play with a friend for 6 hours... or enter a tournament. Big events like SVB and Alex.. that is a totally different deal. That is like a big UFC event. You don't see it everyday and may not see it again for a long time!
 
I really like what TAR does. But like what everyone else has said, I have to work during the day, so unfortunately I couldn't watch via PPV also.

And like what every one else has said, I hope Jcin and BigNasty archive all of this and make it available later on via streaming, downloading, or whatever. Then I could purchase and watch on my own time.
 
Just a thought

How many pool rooms do you think know about this or even have equipment to put these ppvs on their tv's? Many people in their homes do not have tvs hooked to their computers. After the digital transition in Feb who knows? More opportunity to educate consumers about internet video streaming...
 
Oh my god ... Allison Fisher is so funny .... she's one cracking commentator!!!
 
I like the idea of ppv for videos of events too

If people arent available to watch live for a discounted price, Im sure you could get some to purchase time online to watch the videos of the events. That is another money making avenue for TAR as someone here posted. There are alot fo people in the USA and in other countries that would be able to watch if it were on their time and around their schedule............this is a must in my opinion!

Its tough doing ppv without advance advertising heck its tough with advance advertising so maybe it is coming down to getting in with the WPBA and other organizations to discuss terms and potential streams in advance enough to advertise it. Its good for everyone and is just another way for billiards to hit mainstream which definately benefits all of the billiards industry including the WPBA and other organizations! Its all about selling the promotion and marketing to them so they see a benefit to contract you to do it.

I would love to have TAR attend the expo Im planning when it comes around and would absolutely comp rooms for them and try to get sponsors to handle their expenses so it doesnt cost them a dime to come and help promote what we are doing by streaming some tournament matches and action matches. If they want to set up a booth for dvd and shirt sales, I'll comp that booth as well!!

If I can help TAR in any way please let me know and if I am able I will do just that!
 
miplayerstour said:
If people arent available to watch live for a discounted price, Im sure you could get some to purchase time online to watch the videos of the events. That is another money making avenue for TAR as someone here posted. There are alot fo people in the USA and in other countries that would be able to watch if it were on their time and around their schedule............this is a must in my opinion!

Its tough doing ppv without advance advertising heck its tough with advance advertising so maybe it is coming down to getting in with the WPBA and other organizations to discuss terms and potential streams in advance enough to advertise it. Its good for everyone and is just another way for billiards to hit mainstream which definately benefits all of the billiards industry including the WPBA and other organizations! Its all about selling the promotion and marketing to them so they see a benefit to contract you to do it.

I would love to have TAR attend the expo Im planning when it comes around and would absolutely comp rooms for them and try to get sponsors to handle their expenses so it doesnt cost them a dime to come and help promote what we are doing by streaming some tournament matches and action matches. If they want to set up a booth for dvd and shirt sales, I'll comp that booth as well!!

If I can help TAR in any way please let me know and if I am able I will do just that!
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That is a great idea. Bravo to you for stepping up to the plate and providing some helpful snippets as it pertains to pool productions. :)

I heard it through the "pool grapevine" -- LOL! -- that financial backing does occur for some pool production entities, coming from a very reliable and prominent pool person, one who has a demonstrated track record of making things happen in the past, present, and I am sure in the future. Thank the good Lord for people like him. He knows who he is, and so do I. He doesn't post on this forum very often, but he will always be held in a very high regard for his contributions to the sport.

That said, there are so many good pool folk who continue to give it their all, especially here in the States. Allen Hopkins makes things happen, such as the annual Super Billiards Expo, and I don't think he'd still be doing it if it were not profitable, as one example of a pool success.

The climate for pool here in America, though, is different today than it was in yesteryear, and it is also different in the U.S. today than it is elsewhere in the world. That's a definite given.

When TAR first came to the fore, it was all about challenge matches, action, and the kind of pool playing that many of us enjoy. They did branch out to provide tournament and event coverage, which was a treat, such as Hopkin's million-dollar event in Valley Forge, the ring games in the Midwest, and now the WPBA PPV in Florida. I admire their innovation, and as an aside, I think Chad is one of the coolest people I have ever spoken to on the phone. I have enjoyed our conversations in the past, and I hope I get to meet him someday in the future.

I realize this forum gets a lot of traffic. I am not sure that even this vast amount of pool public on this forum, though, can support pool enough to make it a profitable business venture, at least in the States. I sure do know how hard some folks are trying, however. They do give it their all.

Some pool public in the U.S., as an example, complain about paying for gate fees at tournaments, that they are too high.

And this same pool public think pool players who play professionally are scum of the earth, bums, and should get a job.

There is no respect for professional play in the eyes of some of the American pool public. When it is mentioned how difficult it is financially to play pool professionally, attending tournaments three-plus times a month, there is a resounding echo that these pool players aren't owed any favors and should do something else, rather than play pool, if they can't make any money: "Get a job and leave pool, damn it, if you can't make a living, and stop complaining." That is the sentiment I hear on this forum, the largest pool Internet forum on the net. In the words of Rodney Dangerfield, professional pool gets no respect.

Well, maybe the pool public who have such a large disdain for professional players are finally getting their wish. With the dwindling lot of professional American players, as one example, and the lack of support for professional events, pool, at least here in the States, is suffering a very slow and ugly death.

Please let me add that not all the pool public share the above-referenced opinions I have written about. There are truly some great people in this pool world, but I just don't think there are enough of them to raise pool up to a higher plateau. I hope I am wrong.

I wish TAR nothing but success in all their future endeavors. I hope TAR can survive. There are some loyal TAR supporters. That's for sure, but is it enough? American pool, in particular, definitely needs entities like TAR.

I haven't posted much in recent times, and this post here will piss off the army of trolls with multiple identities who don't like me, with its length and its content, but those who laugh last do laugh the best, sometimes all the way to the bank.

Sign me, "The Pool Ingenue." :wink:
 
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how about something like you get to chat with the players after their game? :)
 
uwate said:
Fatboy, when I first heard that TAR was doing this WPBA thing, the first thought I had was that the WPBA must be paying their travelling costs and the Seminoles must be helping them with rooms at the Hard Rock. How is could it be explained that they were coming down to show:
#25 rankedJoanne Ashton vs #44 ranked Morgan Steinman.

unranked Jennifer Chen vs (unranked?) Supadra Boonpasook.

#9 ranked Gerda Hofstatter vs (unranked?) Angel Paglia.

(unranked?) Sarah Rousey vs (unranked?) Nicole Keeney

I mean really, cmon...you have SVB, Corey, Henny, plus all the other gals who are bigger draws and they arent on the PPV? To me, this looked like it was strictly a WPBA thing bc the WPBA paid their bills to get here.

I am all for supporting TAR because I like what they do and I have always liked their presentations, but this was asking a bit much. I paid the PPV to them last time at the US Open and for the cost I got to watch half of a Shane match and went to bed. Nothing happened the next night. I know they had alot of matches on before then but I wasnt watching any of them.

If TAR came down to the Hard Rock on their own dime, and was seeking to make money solely on doing PPV of unranked, unknown WBPA players, well then, they made a BAD decision. I know hindsight is 20/20 but still, I think anyone with any kind of history of pool would have been able to call this. Me and another friend of mine were talking last night and I told him the over under was 25 of paid PPV for TAR today. Without hesistating he told me he liked the under.

If TAR is to survive I think they should have a few things changed
1) they need to make their feed PPV in the evenings and maybe during the day for all the events. The US Open was a classic example. Why didnt they go PPV from day one. Everyone on the feed would have understood and totally been behind that decision except the freeloading Nits and who cares about them anyways? We all know what the product was, its not like they needed the 6 day presell to finally sell us 4 hrs of PPV.
2) they need to figure out a way to get the product to DVD faster. I have this feeling that the product is delayed bc TAR does not have any professional video editors. They might have to bite the bullet and hire some or do freelancers or SOMETHING, because the method they are doing where the product is taking months to get to DVD or longer is not working for them.
3) They should consider doing a website that offers the archive of footage pay per minute. Lots of people do not want to buy dvds but would sweat 30 min on some evening that they had time. I could go over countless examples of PPM. JCIN and them just have to PM me to get the discussion going as I have some info on this. They have to monetize their content and do it quick. Time is passing by and content like this has its way of making it to the consumer via pirates if TAR cannot deliver legitimate channels for it. Accustats piracy problems and dvd release delays are a good historical example of just this.
4) For this to survive long term, and this is being a bit brutal frank, but TAR needs to stop treating this like a hobby and start treating it like full time jobs. I have repeatedly gotten the sense that TAR flies by the seat of their pants, has no really business experience with cash flow or ROI or really any kind of business plan. they could start by mapping out a revised business plan of what they currently do and in what areas they are weak and need revision.

I wish them the best, I love TAR to death and think they have been one of the best things to come to pool in the last 10 years. I hope and pray for their survival but I too have long thought if they didnt make some fundamental changes, the end was not far off.

Lastly I want to be clear that I am not knocking the gals shown on the PPV as not being deserving of attention. What I am saying is getting people to pay PPV online is really tough and you need headliners to make it work for now. Sorry if I offended any of the gals, I like their play and have even staked one of the gals on the PPV in a money match before so its not like I dont have respect for their ability to run out.
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ALOT of good points, and the devel is in the details(as you know) the god ol' fine print.

TAR has alot of rough edges, but is a good thing,

I wont comment on the WPBA thing (cant say something good, zip-it) so i'm zipped.

DVD's faster-yes the need to.

PPV or free feed supported by advertizers-the answere is in the middle in the short term, long run all free.

alot more I will suggest later,

I will support TAR as I have since day one,
 
jay helfert said:
You know what, this thread makes me want to watch it tomorrow. I hope there's room on the net for one more. :smile:
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That EXACTLY why I started this thread!!! Finally we have a winner!!!
 
First, I want to +1 Uwate.

I'd also like to make a suggestion that I'm sure has been brought up. I really think TAR should setup a website with account packages where you pay something like a $100 'startup fee' and $25/month after that, and it allows you access to all of their videos (instead of or in addition to buying DVDs) streaming.
Firstly you're holding on to your customer, and they're going to stay paying $25/month because they don't want to cancel and have to pay the $100 startup fee again. The deal is great for the customer too. It also saves money AND time because you don't need to have all of the DVDs made/shipped. I know there have been some DVDs (accu-stats, tar, etc) of games that I wanted to watch but I just hate having to wait days for it to come in the mail so I just don't buy it.
I really think this is the way of the future, and I know TAR prides themselves on setting the trends and doing new things.

I really have no interest in ordering the PPV but I'll probably go out tomorrow to the event any way to see a few friends play and if I see any of the TAR guys I'll treat them to some drinks/food/whatever.

Edit: also, YOOOO fatboy, what's going on? when are you coming round?
 
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re: the future of TAR

being a newbie here, and i can see this, i think there are possibly 2 problems that may jeopardise TAR. the first problem, there is no real attraction for anyone outside of the USA to tune in, as it is too expensive ( especially here in the uk) with the 'credit crunch' apon us, $20 = ?11
for one days viewing! for $20 you can get a months subscription to sports channel setanta sports, here in the uk. ( so who is gonna pay $20 for a few hours in one day)
and of course the other factor is the time difference between countries.
what are your thoughts on this folks?




steve.
 
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JAM said:
I haven't posted much in recent times
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You sure as hell havn't and just last night I was putting out another mental energy plea for you to come back.

We must be on the same "wavelength".... so to speak. :groucho:
 
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AzHousePro said:
So far today, there have been over 1,700 registered users on the forums.

There were just under 10,000 user sessions on the forums yesterday.

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike, I'm not saying that there are aren't a lot of registered users. What I'm saying is that of the 1,700 registered users on the forums, there are only a couple hundred people who post on a regular basis. I'm not trying to slam AZ here, the point I'm trying to make is that you can't just rely on the AZ forums to promote your event and expect it to be successful.
 
Tar

In my case I can rarely find the time to sit and watch a live pool feed unless it just happens to come at the right time. I have a lot going on and it would be better for me to be able to buy a DVD or download the feed so I could watch it when I can squeeze in the time. A lot of times i'll watch an Accu-stats match and not finish it because something will come up and I have to stop and then I go back later and finish watching the match.

With my schedule a live feed is tough and i'm a very loyal pool fan with well over a hundred Accu-stat videos.

James
 
I agree that there are 2 main problems with the WPBA stream and both have been mentioned already.

First, I think it is significant that most people work an 8-5 shift and are not at home to watch daytime streaming matches. There may have been 1,700 people to log in to AZ yesteray, but I'll bet that 80% - 90% logged in from work where we can get a little AZ fix, but we can't watch a streaming pool match. And It's hard to spend $30 for a PPV when you are not going to be able to enjoy it, even if you are a believer in the cause.

Second, TAR did start as a way to watch big dollar action and gambling matches, which appeals to alot of folks. We can watch WPBA matches on several sports channels, but most never get to see a $10,000 match between 2 of the games greatest. To me, that's why the action PPVs sell more than WPBA matches ever will.

I, like the others, wish TAR nothing but success, and I think that Justin and Nasty will figure it out.

Mike
 
I just bought the PPV to support TAR. I won't be able to watch much, but it is better than watching the market tank. I will take a peak from time to time.
 
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