Teaching question --what would you do

frankncali

frankncali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lets say you have 2-3 people that are at a "D" or below level. They really
dont car to ever get really good but would like to make their league
play of a night or two more enjoyable.

What would you teach them?
What do you think would help them the most?
How would you convey them? ie what methods would you use?

Obviously they will have different strengths and weaknesses.
I have seen different peoples approaches and was just curious as
to some others and some others methods to help the players understand.

Most say to read a book but thats easier said than done. Some people dont learn well that way and can be shown hands-on much better.


Hopefully some of the guys who are considered the top AZ players will chime in. I am certain that they have seem mistakes by low level players and know whats common.
 
You can work with them on their fundamentals, but don't expect a lot of results. Anyone who isn't really interested in getting good, probably isn't going to apply much effort into practicing the things they need for improvement.

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

Steve
 
Show them the basics...

In order to get ANY better, they will need to clearly understand what a basic stance, grip and stroke consist of...and how to practice them, until they become easy to do, without thinking hard about it. Books and videos do some justice to these fundamentals, but hands-on is a LOT better...as long as the 'teacher' has the 'right stuff' to show them. After learning these basics, they should at least be able to make a ball in a hole with a little consistency...maybe even THREE friggin' balls! LOL:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
frankncali said:
Lets say you have 2-3 people that are at a "D" or below level. They really
dont car to ever get really good but would like to make their league
play of a night or two more enjoyable.

What would you teach them?
...
Click to expand...
Get the Basics Clinic course outline from the website below. Go over the drills and basic info outlines (called Basics I and II), and pick out some topics. You will need to start with how to pick a cue and how to chalk. The tricky part is making that stuff interesting.
 
Scott Lee said:
In order to get ANY better, they will need to clearly understand what a basic stance, grip and stroke consist of...and how to practice them, until they become easy to do, without thinking hard about it. Books and videos do some justice to these fundamentals, but hands-on is a LOT better...as long as the 'teacher' has the 'right stuff' to show them. After learning these basics, they should at least be able to make a ball in a hole with a little consistency...maybe even THREE friggin' balls! LOL:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Ditto ... :)
 
These players that never want to become good players but would like just a little more success playing their friends and league opponents number in the millions.

They will never put much time into developing their fundamentals. If you convince them to try to keep their body and bridge hand still as they shoot and to chalk before every shot, they might do that, but don't expect much more.

The fast track to helping them improve is to teach them how to play a little defense. At the game's lowest levels, safeties pay bigger dividends than at high level. Strange, but true.
 
Thanks for the suggestions

Teaching basics can be tough s most are looking fora magic pill to take.

I play in league play and try and help the players on my team. Hardest part is making sure to teach or coach at their level.

I have used bits a pieces from Blackjack, Bob Jewett, Joe Tucker and a
few others but its the absorbtion of the material thats tough.

sjm-- If I could get them to notice easy safties and recognize shots to leave that are hard on their opponnet that would be golden.

We all play for fun. Some lower level players even in league play feel
like they are hurting the team. I was just looking for some lessons or
ideas to get them better and make it more fun for them.
We are not losing teams by any means. We dont allow anyone to sandbag and we all understand that if people move up then they move up.
I just dont want any players that wont try. So far so good. Its been three years and with one year a loss in the Regional finals and the next year winning it and going to nationals. This year regionals is in june and some of the players hae asked for some help before we go.
I am on three teams this year in regionals 2 8 ball and 1 nine ball.
Maybe by then some of these lower level players can progress just enough to make it more fun for them and better the team in the process.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Get the Basics Clinic course outline from the website below. Go over the drills and basic info outlines (called Basics I and II), and pick out some topics. You will need to start with how to pick a cue and how to chalk. The tricky part is making that stuff interesting.
Click to expand...

I visit your site from time to time and really appreciate it. There is alot of info on there and its written so that its easy to understand.

thanks for the site.
 
sjm said:
These players that never want to become good players but would like just a little more success playing their friends and league opponents number in the millions.

They will never put much time into developing their fundamentals. If you convince them to try to keep their body and bridge hand still as they shoot and to chalk before every shot, they might do that, but don't expect much more.

The fast track to helping them improve is to teach them how to play a little defense. At the game's lowest levels, safeties pay bigger dividends than at high level. Strange, but true.
Click to expand...

I agree sjm,
There's not a lot of hope, but if you can give them some basic tips on safety, especially things like keeping an opponent away from the 8-ball or next to last ball, what to do when pockets are blocked and which shots to choose when BIH, to not pot all the cherries early on but instead to develop difficult balls etc, they will start winning more frames.

Winning more is likely to spark more interest, inspire some dedication.
 
I'm afraid I might get burned for this, but so be it. Most (if not all) D players and below do not hit the cue ball where they think they are hitting it. So tell them to focus on the cue ball during their follow through. It will, at least for now, teach them a slightly more consistent stroke.

You would not believe the instant progress I get from beginners when they try this.

When or if they get much better, they can switch to looking at the object ball during the follow through.
 
I would teach them the basics such as contact point aiming and what english and draw and follow do. The most important thing besides that would be to keep your head completely still (no flinching) throughout the shot and to make sure to get lined up correctly. If they do this on every shot their hand eye coordination will surely take care of the rest.
 
Cameron Smith said:
I'm afraid I might get burned for this, but so be it. Most (if not all) D players and below do not hit the cue ball where they think they are hitting it. So tell them to focus on the cue ball during their follow through. It will, at least for now, teach them a slightly more consistent stroke.

You would not believe the instant progress I get from beginners when they try this.

When or if they get much better, they can switch to looking at the object ball during the follow through.
Click to expand...


I agree its just a little more complicated then telling them to hit where they are aiming.

An example -- In little league baseball you will hear person after person yelling for players to quit stepping down the third base line when batting.
Stepping in the bucket is another common term for it.
Sure they are stepping there but the step is only the end result of other issues. If the kids head comes back or swing back that direction the step is a reaction to that. Most kids wind up getting so confused that they
quit trying or become majorly discouraged.

In pool hitting the wrong spot on the object ball can be traced to many things. I think stance and cue position might be the biggest reasons.

Getting people to believe what we know about the stance and its importance is tough. It becomes nearly impossible when they look at
some top players or Pros and see things like McCreadys stance and stroke.
Some of the Filipino players move their cus so much before hitting the OB its crazy.

I worked with one tonight for a little while and it seemed to help. She has
a little better idea of what to start off doing on shots. Now its only whether she uses it or not.
I also have one of Joe Tuckers thrid eyes and a couple people have been really surprised to find out how off they are.
 
frankncali said:
Lets say you have 2-3 people that are at a "D" or below level. [...]
What would you teach them? [...]
Click to expand...

I've started with
1. get your stick more level
2. get your head closer to the stick
3. follow through and stay down

The first one seems hard to people, especially people who have been shooting for a while. They don't level it out enough, and then they revert to type and jack up again when they're not thinking about it anymore.

There are, imo, two problems in telling some D-play with a jacked up cue to level it out. First, he is anchored to his jacked up position. His jacked up position is a natural reference for him. So when he wants to level the cue he levels it a bit *relative to his normal jacked up position.* People just inch away from what they're used to.

The other problem is if someone in his jacked up position does lower the butt of his cue by a lot, then his tip will be pointing above the cueball. In other words there is a big adjustment to be made to the bridge hand as well --and some bridges don't so that adjustment readily. So the player ends up compromising and not lowering the butt by so much.

For these reasons, I have the player walk up to the shot and start with the back of the cue "too level," that is, resting on the table rail or touching whatever is in the way. Then with the level cue, he forms a bridge and gets the tip where he wants it. Then he raises the butt of the cue enough that he won't disturb a ball or hurt his knuckles or whatever.

The idea tends to stick a little better if people do this exercise for a while.

mike page
fargo
 
sjm said:
These players that never want to become good players but would like just a little more success playing their friends and league opponents number in the millions.

They will never put much time into developing their fundamentals. If you convince them to try to keep their body and bridge hand still as they shoot and to chalk before every shot, they might do that, but don't expect much more.

The fast track to helping them improve is to teach them how to play a little defense. At the game's lowest levels, safeties pay bigger dividends than at high level. Strange, but true.
Click to expand...


I agree. I'd even go a little farther than that. Forget about the basics they aren't interested in that. Try to get them to have a plan. If they happen to make the ball, they will have something else to shoot at. If they miss, people will see that they had a plan and it won't look quite so bad. Without getting into spin of course, maybe just a thought about how hard they are going to hit the shot to try to have an easier shot afterward.
 
I agree with those who've suggested fundaments of stance and stroke. However, that is an uphill battle, at best. "At best" is when the person wants to change. Most at that level don't.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to correct a player's stance and have them say, "Well, that just feels too uncomfortable." Yet they will immediately return to their normal stance, which, in fact, often looks downright painful to achieve.

So unless someone is serious enough to want to change, and is willing to accept the temporary setback of change, offering suggestions is pretty much a waste of time. As an alternative, I'd suggest a round of shots to loosen them up a bit more.
 
If it's 8-ball...tell them to:

1.) shoot softly
2.) think

That's all they do if they aren't really interested in doing much work to get better.

Jeff Livingston
 
Tell them

TOO little (interest), TOO late, and TOO much trouble.

Jeesh, I learned how to play using my brain, I should have waited
for all these instructors to come along ....<facetious lil grin>
 
here my idea

If they dont care to really progress, but want to enjoy league more.

I would work on the standard basic fundmentals (stance, weight distribution, grip, basic text book stroke).

And then I would work on their perception of the game, they play for fun, then have it. Let go of those butterflies, relax, and shoot. Have them remember that it is a game, period, played on a table with holes, sticks and balls. Don't gret the small stuff, know the shot, see the shot, shoot the shot, if you miss so what. Just :) like this :D , and look like this doing it :cool: and above all, don't get like this :mad: or this, :( although this is acceptable from time to time :o
 
teaching

If what you say that they dont want to get any better!!! but have more fun my advice is to { drink more beer} is that not what most legue players do??/ all leugies i have saw they all are drinking and hollering and having fun. to shoot serious you have to take the fun out of the game,look at the faces of the pro players until they lift the winning trophy they are not having fun they are dead serious to leiuge players { drink more beer] STICK:D :D :D :D :D
 
Thinking ahead

I agree with those who have said that players like you described aren't going to put in the practice to develop a good stroke, and so that's not necessarily going to be the most helpful advice, since they'll likely ignore it.

I think that the biggest difference between 2-3s and 4-5s in my league (APA 8-ball) is in the thought process. I can't tell you how many times I've watched a 2 or 3 line up to pocket a ball, and thought to myself "what are they even hoping will happen with the cue ball?" You can tell they just haven't thought about what the cue ball's going to do, because sometimes they'll get down to shoot a shot, and pocket the ball in such a way that the cue ball doesn't even have a chance of landing in a good place, no matter how lucky they get.

So I'd teach them, before they learn to really CONTROL the cue ball, to at least PREDICT the cue ball action, and choose their shot accordingly. They should think "if I shoot this shot, the cue ball's going to go there, do I want that to happen?" At first their predictions will be off, but eventually they'll get a lot better at it, and choose patterns much more wisely than before. And then if, somewhere along the way, they develop any real cue ball control, they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

-Andrew
 
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