Test Yourself

[book collector]

How many of you ever test yourself by playing someone who is at least 2 balls better than you?
Or play in open tournaments and hope to draw the best players in your 1st and second match.
Not for the rent money, for what you can afford and to put pressure on yourself.
The experience is invaluable if you learn from it.
I'm not talking about learning how to shoot better , but how to deal with the pressure, you are no longer stealing , you are in the water with a predator and you need to be able to fight back.
Most people just can't do it , they fade away like a ghost .
Even a lot of shortstops and higher levels disappear when a great player comes after them.
You need to put yourself in the ring and see what you are made of .
If you pass the test and play your good game against a champion , there's no reason you can't be one if you put in the work.{if that's what you want}
You will never know if you don't try.
Unfortuneately , the first people most new players meet are the knockers and locksmiths
They keep everyone from enjoying themselves and learning.
It seems like every time I am showing someone something, someone will pull me aside and say hey , that's my sucker , don't wake him up!
Instead of saying "would you mind teaching me that ? Or something else?
I think the main reason people never play each other if the game is close is not the money but the fear of losing face to the rail if they don't win.
That's a shame.

 

[desertshark]

I agree. I have a guy on my league team that is way better than me. I enjoy playing him to see what I'm made of and I study how he plays. There was a night I played him and won quite a few racks by playing smart rather than trying to just run out on him. Pool is like chess in many ways. More strategy and knowing your opponent than playing recklessly.

 

[JoeyA]

How many of you ever test yourself by playing someone who is at least 2 balls better than you?
Or play in open tournaments and hope to draw the best players in your 1st and second match.
Not for the rent money, for what you can afford and to put pressure on yourself.
The experience is invaluable if you learn from it.
I'm not talking about learning how to shoot better , but how to deal with the pressure, you are no longer stealing , you are in the water with a predator and you need to be able to fight back.
Most people just can't do it , they fade away like a ghost .
Even a lot of shortstops and higher levels disappear when a great player comes after them.
You need to put yourself in the ring and see what you are made of .
If you pass the test and play your good game against a champion , there's no reason you can't be one if you put in the work.{if that's what you want}
You will never know if you don't try.
Unfortuneately , the first people most new players meet are the knockers and locksmiths
They keep everyone from enjoying themselves and learning.
It seems like every time I am showing someone something, someone will pull me aside and say hey , that's my sucker , don't wake him up!
Instead of saying "would you mind teaching me that ? Or something else?
I think the main reason people never play each other if the game is close is not the money but the fear of losing face to the rail if they don't win.
That's a shame.

I regularly test myself against the best players and always have. Occasionally I surprise them. And if I don't surprise them, I enjoy competing against them and discovering my weaknesses when playing them.

You're right on so many counts, it's pitiful. Everyone knows that I teach and I don't have anyone (anymore) that suggest that I don't teach "their suckers", because they know they will be wasting their breath. What those fools don't realize is that when you "wise-up" somebody, they want to play more pool and that often results in additional gambling and/or tournament play for the person doing the learning.

The other thing you are so right about is fear of losing face but an additional reason for some people not playing others, is their fear that if they beat you (and it's a close match), they think that will be just like them knocking their own action.

My most favorite competitions have always been with players better than myself.

If people just realized that the professional players are fallible and they can be beat by lesser players, especially in tournament competition, more amateurs would be playing in tournaments. Besides it's a lot of fun and I have had on more than one occasion, after receiving a spanking, I was offered some positive suggestions by my opponent as to how I could improve my game.

JoeyA

 

[Banks]

How many of you ever test yourself by playing someone who is at least 2 balls better than you?
Or play in open tournaments and hope to draw the best players in your 1st and second match.
Not for the rent money, for what you can afford and to put pressure on yourself.
The experience is invaluable if you learn from it.
I'm not talking about learning how to shoot better , but how to deal with the pressure, you are no longer stealing , you are in the water with a predator and you need to be able to fight back.
Most people just can't do it , they fade away like a ghost .
Even a lot of shortstops and higher levels disappear when a great player comes after them.
You need to put yourself in the ring and see what you are made of .
If you pass the test and play your good game against a champion , there's no reason you can't be one if you put in the work.{if that's what you want}
You will never know if you don't try.
Unfortuneately , the first people most new players meet are the knockers and locksmiths
They keep everyone from enjoying themselves and learning.
It seems like every time I am showing someone something, someone will pull me aside and say hey , that's my sucker , don't wake him up!
Instead of saying "would you mind teaching me that ? Or something else?
I think the main reason people never play each other if the game is close is not the money but the fear of losing face to the rail if they don't win.
That's a shame.

I still have no idea what '# balls better' means. I thought I had an idea, then people would say they're 2 balls better and they haven't even changed an APA rank. People on here have been getting a ball better for years and still don't play much different than they did before.

Also, some people are fun players, some are tournament players and some are gamblers. A few are both. Wasting money to try proving somebody else's point is not good.

Occasionally I'll throw some easy money at strong master or GM, but if it's involving money, I try to stick to games I have a chance at. You don't need to play a strong player to know that you still can't run a rack.

 

[NitPicker]

I do this whenever possible. I actually enjoy playing people better than me more than I do beating up on those who aren't. Even if I lose, I tend to play better against greater competition. And winning against someone who I normally don't, that little high I get lasts way longer than going undefeated all day against folks I shouldn't lose to anyway. It kind of feels unfulfilling to me to win against someone I should, and all the while know that my play wouldn't be no where near enough for a real challenge. But some people only play to win. I enjoy winning, but I play because I love the game.

 

[qbilder]

Excellent post.

 

[Zphix]

How many of you ever test yourself by playing someone who is at least 2 balls better than you?
Or play in open tournaments and hope to draw the best players in your 1st and second match.
Not for the rent money, for what you can afford and to put pressure on yourself.
The experience is invaluable if you learn from it.
I'm not talking about learning how to shoot better , but how to deal with the pressure, you are no longer stealing , you are in the water with a predator and you need to be able to fight back.
Most people just can't do it , they fade away like a ghost .
Even a lot of shortstops and higher levels disappear when a great player comes after them.
You need to put yourself in the ring and see what you are made of .
If you pass the test and play your good game against a champion , there's no reason you can't be one if you put in the work.{if that's what you want}
You will never know if you don't try.
Unfortuneately , the first people most new players meet are the knockers and locksmiths
They keep everyone from enjoying themselves and learning.
It seems like every time I am showing someone something, someone will pull me aside and say hey , that's my sucker , don't wake him up!
Instead of saying "would you mind teaching me that ? Or something else?
I think the main reason people never play each other if the game is close is not the money but the fear of losing face to the rail if they don't win.
That's a shame.

Agreed 100%. I really enjoy playing people levels better than me - because it motivates me to become better than them.

I used to care about losing face in front of others until somebody told me that 90% of all players cannot accurately gauge me, my opponent, or what happened so why care what they think?

In all seriousness, I'd love to step in the ring with the likes of SVB, Archer, Appleton, etc. I have no fear about playing those better than myself and I've actually gotten alot better because I play people better than me.

Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2

 

[RiverCity]

Used to we just called it donating. It was part of the learning process, you paid to play the better players. It let you know real quick where you fell on the food chain, and if you were smart enough and paid attention you learned through watching better players up close and experimenting with those lessons AFTER the match.
Chuck

 

[sjm]

Agreed and disagreed.

Yes, there's a lot of value added when you play a better player, and part of that value is the desire it plants inside you to improve.

Where I disagree is that you don't need to play against better players to identify your weaknesses. Two better ways are a) lessons/private evaluations and b) drills intended to measure and develop specific skills.

For example:

1) in Mark Wilson's "Play Great Pool" book, he writes of the importance of the 1,000 hour checkup, a periodic review by a master instructor of your stroke, with remedial steps or instruction as deemed appropriate. Mark also offers numerous drills to help you measure and refine your skills.

2) in Darren Appleton's wonderful new DVD, he gives you drills that will expose weaknesses in a) your stroke, b) your angle management, and c) your speed control and by practicing these drills, you can turn those weaknesses into strengths.

Similarly, playing against better players may not be the best way to overcome your weaknesses, but working on the practice routines advocated by the likes of Mark Wilson, Darren Appleton, and many others is the route to improvement.

So, while conceding that playing better players does add some value, I think the value added is sometimes overstated.

 

[DanielDeTinne]

I play much better players all the time. The league I play in, 90% of the players are able to break and run about 30% of there games or more. I never have. Come close a lot but never able to close it out. However I do get wins every league night. Not the whole match but a least some wins. I find that after I left APA league for the in house league at my local pool hall (which is full of heavy hitters) I focus much harder on my game and I am improving every week.
It is an 8 ball league not 9 ball.

 

[book collector]

Thanks for all the responses.
We all have to choose the path we like best , whats right for one can be terribly wrong for another. Just putting some ideas out , to maybe help someone.

 

[JoeyA]

Agreed and disagreed.

Yes, there's a lot of value added when you play a better player, and part of that value is the desire it plants inside you to improve.

Where I disagree is that you don't need to play against better players to identify your weaknesses. Two better ways are a) lessons/private evaluations and b) drills intended to measure and develop specific skills.

For example:

1) in Mark Wilson's "Play Great Pool" book, he writes of the importance of the 1,000 hour checkup, a periodic review by a master instructor of your stroke, with remedial steps or instruction as deemed appropriate. Mark also offers numerous drills to help you measure and refine your skills.

2) in Darren Appleton's wonderful new DVD, he gives you drills that will expose weaknesses in a) your stroke, b) your angle management, and c) your speed control and by practicing these drills, you can turn those weaknesses into strengths.

Similarly, playing against better players may not be the best way to overcome your weaknesses, but working on the practice routines advocated by the likes of Mark Wilson, Darren Appleton, and many others is the route to improvement.

So, while conceding that playing better players does add some value, I think the value added is sometimes overstated.

I seldom disagree with what you write and I don't know if I am disagreeing with you or not but I would like to add a small perspective if I might.

While instructors, instructional videos, drills and personal video recording of our game are all things that we can utilize to improve our game, there is no substitute for playing better players, either in practice or in competition. This is where you will learn pattern play, done at its highest level. I think the pain of seeing how you should have run the rack sticks with you better if you have something to lose even if it is only a game against a better player, or a match. When you see how a professional chooses to break up a cluster, you learn just that. The professionals will often do things in a manner that would baffle most of even the more learned. Sure you can watch them on video but to me, the pain of suffering helps you to remember what to do next time. Add in the getting used to the pressure of playing a human being who exhibits far more of everything in the game than you currently possess is like others have mentioned, a humbling experience and one you can learn from.

The other thing I wanted to say is that it is truly sad that so many great players do not wish to practice with lesser players even for an hour. I suppose each has their own reasons but I try to give back to the up and coming players when they show the right attitude on a consistent basis.

There is a price for everything and it's too bad that the better players far too often, require that they lighten your wallet in the process for that " mini-lesson".

 

[bender_lu]

paid 100 euro entry for a tournament to play one match against the guy who lost the final against feijen in the netherlands. play every week wihich MUCH stronger opponants. it helped my game much more than anything else. thats why IMHO handicapping is about the worst thing that exists.

 

[Busboy]

I love too play better players my self not only too get better but too learn more that i didnt know

 

[Joe T]

This is a huge part of the format the American Billiard Club is using. We feel its win win for higher and lower level players. Everyone is guarantee one tough match of rotation each week for twenty bucks and if you're on the higher end the lower levels are helping you. Some of our top players go one step further and offer advice after each match.
Pool has always been strong players surviving off weak players but it can be much better for both if we do it in a structured format that adds true value for all levels.
I believe there's a place for handicapping in our game but I also believe when it crosses the line it starts to damage our game.
Gotta run, kids in top 16 match play bracket. Love the structure of golf and am very jealous of it!

 

[Donny Lutz]

losing my weekly allowance

How many of you ever test yourself by playing someone who is at least 2 balls better than you?
Or play in open tournaments and hope to draw the best players in your 1st and second match.
Not for the rent money, for what you can afford and to put pressure on yourself.
The experience is invaluable if you learn from it.
I'm not talking about learning how to shoot better , but how to deal with the pressure, you are no longer stealing , you are in the water with a predator and you need to be able to fight back.
Most people just can't do it , they fade away like a ghost .
Even a lot of shortstops and higher levels disappear when a great player comes after them.
You need to put yourself in the ring and see what you are made of .
If you pass the test and play your good game against a champion , there's no reason you can't be one if you put in the work.{if that's what you want}
You will never know if you don't try.
Unfortuneately , the first people most new players meet are the knockers and locksmiths
They keep everyone from enjoying themselves and learning.
It seems like every time I am showing someone something, someone will pull me aside and say hey , that's my sucker , don't wake him up!
Instead of saying "would you mind teaching me that ? Or something else?
I think the main reason people never play each other if the game is close is not the money but the fear of losing face to the rail if they don't win.
That's a shame.

When I was thirteen, I played a kid named Tommy Sneath. He was way better than I was in pool and other sports. I lost my $1 weekly allowance to him for almost a year, till I learned that he was sixteen, but was "passing" for thirteen because of his small size!



But he taught me a little humility. It took more than a decade for me to catch and surpass him and we became good friends!

I liked playing better players, probably because I didn't make too many foolish bets!

I don't quite agree with hoping to play the best players for your first match in a tournament. I once drew Nick Varner out of a field of over 500...and I still wish I'd played him later in the event!

 

[jburkm002]

Its like showing up for your first day on the job at a construction site. You have your little belt with your tool pouch attached. You have your basic tools and are limited to what you can do. You see other workers showing up with big tool bags on wheels that are full and there are more tool in the truck. Pool isnt about playing at YOUR top level. Pool is about adding more tools to your tool bag. You can watch and play against top players and be more focused. Your still at best, going to play at YOUR peak level. Even if you won. Doesnt place you at their level. When you play or watch better players. How often do you pay attention to shots your pretty sure you couldnt do? Their ability to kick for safeties. Their ability to place the cue ball where they want. I see all the time people wondering how good they are because they can beat the ghost. Thats a fraction of pool. Can you kick with accuracy, jump, bank, break etc? Learning how to play proper safeties may not make you a ball or two better but it can make your win percentage better. Pros play lots of safeties with accuracy.

 

[fastone371]

I enjoy playing people better than me, I also play in a lot of tournaments that even though I may be competitive against some of the players, the odds are stacked heavily against me. It doesn't bother me if I lose to people as far as pride goes, I have only been playing for barely 3 years.

 

[book collector]

Its like showing up for your first day on the job at a construction site. You have your little belt with your tool pouch attached. You have your basic tools and are limited to what you can do. You see other workers showing up with big tool bags on wheels that are full and there are more tool in the truck. Pool isnt about playing at YOUR top level. Pool is about adding more tools to your tool bag. You can watch and play against top players and be more focused. Your still at best, going to play at YOUR peak level. Even if you won. Doesnt place you at their level. When you play or watch better players. How often do you pay attention to shots your pretty sure you couldnt do? Their ability to kick for safeties. Their ability to place the cue ball where they want. I see all the time people wondering how good they are because they can beat the ghost. Thats a fraction of pool. Can you kick with accuracy, jump, bank, break etc? Learning how to play proper safeties may not make you a ball or two better but it can make your win percentage better. Pros play lots of safeties with accuracy.

I absolutely agree, when you step up in the rankings , you may win once in a while, but you are not supposed to.
It is not about winning vs the much better player , it is about getting some steel inside you for that match against the guy who is your speed or a little above and being able to dig in and come up with a solution to beat him consistently.

 

[book collector]

When I was thirteen, I played a kid named Tommy Sneath. He was way better than I was in pool and other sports. I lost my $1 weekly allowance to him for almost a year, till I learned that he was sixteen, but was "passing" for thirteen because of his small size!



But he taught me a little humility. It took more than a decade for me to catch and surpass him and we became good friends!

I liked playing better players, probably because I didn't make too many foolish bets!

I don't quite agree with hoping to play the best players for your first match in a tournament. I once drew Nick Varner out of a field of over 500...and I still wish I'd played him later in the event!

It's a little different with someone like you in the tournament situation , you play well enough to have a legitimate chance to win on a given day, most of us don't.
Would you be where you are in pool today if you had not had Tommy Sneath as a motivator?