Texas BCAPL State Tournament - Harker Heights, Tx 12-15 Mar 2009

[RealLive]

wow, props to Stones for that!

 

[Papa Red]

As a member of the opposing team, I only have one thing to say about the situation. As bluntly as possible, Your team got screwed, MM!!!!!!!!!

I felt bad when it happened and I feel bad NOW! It was a false win.

I will explain my part when the situation arose:

I was standing in front of our team's table which was about 20-25 feet away from the table the final game was being played on. When I saw the position Neil played to get on the 7 ball, I wondered if he had enough room to shoot the 7 clean past the 8 ball or with the 7 and the 4 ball locked up, I wondered if he could hit it fat and carom off the 4 ball in the corner and take the 8 out of play. I also thought it was a little strange that the opposing player did not call a ref into play as the balls were very close. But like I said, I was a fair distance from the table and couldn't see the layout that well.

What I did see next was a FLAGRANT FOUL on Neil's part. He clearly hit the 8 ball first and I turned to my team mates at our table and said, "He fouled. Look's like it's over." since the opposing player would have BIH with only two balls on the table.

I turned back to the table and was shocked to see Neil denying he fouled. Again, I was standing 20-25' away and it was clearly a foul. I told my team mates that I couldn't believe what I was seeing. After a little discussion between the two players, they called for a ref and Bob came into the situation.

Since our team's sitting table was right next to the stage, I saw Bull (TD) stand up and he asked me what happened. I explained that our player had clearly fouled and didn't understand what the discussion was about.

I expected Bull to intervene after my explanation but I guess he just let Bob do his job. Bob ruled in Neil's favor and at that point, I let the ruling stand which I felt very bad about.

I apologized to the entire OB team as we shook hands including you, MM.

As a TD myself, If an opposing player's teammate informed me it was a foul, the other player would have received BIH. At the least, I would have let the players replay that last game.

End of story:

I have now resigned from my team because of this situation and will not be joining them in Vegas this year.

I simply refuse to play with another player with these ethics as I have seen this same behavior in the past. Enough is enough!

Again, I openly apologize to the entire OB team.

Stones

Thanks Paul for the comments! I hate that you will be not going to Vegas, but your honesty will carry you a lot father. A stand up guy as always. What Paul said is true he did tell his team mates that is was a foul, but nobody else seamed to care.

 

[akaTrigger]

End of story:

I have now resigned from my team because of this situation and will not be joining them in Vegas this year.

I simply refuse to play with another player with these ethics as I have seen this same behavior in the past. Enough is enough!

Again, I openly apologize to the entire OB team.

Stones

WOW! I am impressed, Paul. I know you will still go to Vegas - please play on our team!! (wear a dress and shave those legs, Mister!).

Seriously - this is what you call "stand up." Thanks for sharing what you saw and how you felt. You are one hellova guy for stepping down and not putting up with that. Kudos to you! Although I had respect for you before, now you're WAY up the list!

 

[ne14tennis]

Stones??

As a member of the opposing team, I only have one thing to say about the situation. As bluntly as possible, Your team got screwed, MM!!!!!!!!!

I felt bad when it happened and I feel bad NOW! It was a false win.

I will explain my part when the situation arose:

I was standing in front of our team's table which was about 20-25 feet away from the table the final game was being played on. When I saw the position Neil played to get on the 7 ball, I wondered if he had enough room to shoot the 7 clean past the 8 ball or with the 7 and the 4 ball locked up, I wondered if he could hit it fat and carom off the 4 ball in the corner and take the 8 out of play. I also thought it was a little strange that the opposing player did not call a ref into play as the balls were very close. But like I said, I was a fair distance from the table and couldn't see the layout that well.

What I did see next was a FLAGRANT FOUL on Neil's part. He clearly hit the 8 ball first and I turned to my team mates at our table and said, "He fouled. Look's like it's over." since the opposing player would have BIH with only two balls on the table.

I turned back to the table and was shocked to see Neil denying he fouled. Again, I was standing 20-25' away and it was clearly a foul. I told my team mates that I couldn't believe what I was seeing. After a little discussion between the two players, they called for a ref and Bob came into the situation.

Since our team's sitting table was right next to the stage, I saw Bull (TD) stand up and he asked me what happened. I explained that our player had clearly fouled and didn't understand what the discussion was about.

I expected Bull to intervene after my explanation but I guess he just let Bob do his job. Bob ruled in Neil's favor and at that point, I let the ruling stand which I felt very bad about.

I apologized to the entire OB team as we shook hands including you, MM.

As a TD myself, If an opposing player's teammate informed me it was a foul, the other player would have received BIH. At the least, I would have let the players replay that last game.

End of story:

I have now resigned from my team because of this situation and will not be joining them in Vegas this year.

I simply refuse to play with another player with these ethics as I have seen this same behavior in the past. Enough is enough!

Again, I openly apologize to the entire OB team.

Stones

I guess that's why they call you "Stones"

It took a pair to come on here and relay that. Even bigger stones to stand up to the team and say you don't want to be a part of that.

hats off to you paul :thumbup:

 

[Stones]

Thanks Paul for the comments! I hate that you will be not going to Vegas, but your honesty will carry you a lot father. A stand up guy as always. What Paul said is true he did tell his team mates that is was a foul, but nobody else seamed to care.

This is not an excuse, just an explanation.

Six of my teammates are newbies to anything other than local league play. This was their first time to the BIG SHOW.

I can say with all honesty that not only were they intimidated by being there, they were clearly intimidated by the experienced players on our team which included Neil, Ali Affas and myself. They relied on us for guidance and support throughout the tournament.

Ali and myself were late joining the local league and subbed on an all ladies' team to qualify for State and the nationals. Ali and myself were asked by Neil to play with his team just a few weeks before State and we agreed.

I believe the rest of the team was intimidated by their inexperience when the situation arose, stayed quiet, and looked to us for resolution with the situation with the final game with OB Cues.

Problem was they had to rely on the wrong teammate for resolution. He took advantage of the rules and cheated.

By me standing up and resigning from the team, I hope they learned a different lesson.

The rest of the team are good guys and shouldn't be condemned for their inexperience.

Maybe, one day, with a few more rodeos under their belts, they'll show the same integrity and class as the OB team showed.

My hat is off to them,

Stones

 

[McKinneyMiner]

Paul...

I was hoping you would chime in on this, and I am glad you did.

We hadn't seen each other in going on 15 years and it was really good to see you.

I personally have no problem at all with any member of your team except Neil.

You were all in a very unfortunate position of being obligated to keep your mouths shut publicly while this thing played out and I completely understand that.

Robbie asked (as a courtesy more than anything) Neil if he had fouled and all hell broke loose when he said he hadn't.

I don't really have a problem with the other members of your team just holding their peace until order was restored.

I was really hoping for one of two things...

Initially the thought that crossed my mind was that Neil would offer to replay the game and I was sure Robbie would accept that.

After that didn't transpire I was thinking that maybe Neil would turn to your bench and ask the members of your team if they thought he had fouled. I was sure that you and at least one other would tell him he had and that would be that.

That didn't happen either and now I am completely of the opinion that Neil is to blame for this.

I hate that your team split after this, but I am glad that you weren't a well established team that had been playing together for years. That would have been sad.

For everyone reading this let me state forcefully that this incident is not THE reason we lost this match. We had control of the two games leading up to this one while we were on the hill and didn't get it done.

The match leaves a bad taste in my mouth from an ethics point of view, not a competitive one.

All in all I thought the two teams played an exciting match that had all the requisite drama that I love in team events. There were ups, downs, surprising mistakes, great shots, incredible outs, the whole bit.

Unfortunately it was marred in the end by a very unfortunate decision by a misguided player.

 

[Stones]

Paul...

I was hoping you would chime in on this, and I am glad you did.

We hadn't seen each other in going on 15 years and it was really good to see you.

I personally have no problem at all with any member of your team except Neil.

You were all in a very unfortunate position of being obligated to keep your mouths shut publicly while this thing played out and I completely understand that.

Robbie asked (as a courtesy more than anything) Neil if he had fouled and all hell broke loose when he said he hadn't.

I don't really have a problem with the other members of your team just holding their peace until order was restored.

I was really hoping for one of two things...

Initially the thought that crossed my mind was that Neil would offer to replay the game and I was sure Robbie would accept that.

After that didn't transpire I was thinking that maybe Neil would turn to your bench and ask the members of your team if they thought he had fouled. I was sure that you and at least one other would tell him he had and that would be that.

That didn't happen either and now I am completely of the opinion that Neil is to blame for this.

I hate that your team split after this, but I am glad that you weren't a well established team that had been playing together for years. That would have been sad.

For everyone reading this let me state forcefully that this incident is not THE reason we lost this match. We had control of the two games leading up to this one while we were on the hill and didn't get it done.

The match leaves a bad taste in my mouth from an ethics point of view, not a competitive one.

All in all I thought the two teams played an exciting match that had all the requisite drama that I love in team events. There were ups, downs, surprising mistakes, great shots, incredible outs, the whole bit.

Unfortunately it was marred in the end by a very unfortunate decision by a misguided player.

MM,

It was an exciting match. Before the match started, I didn't say anything to my team but I figured the line on the match to be 13-6 or 13-7, your favor.

Each time I finished a game, I went over to our scorekeeper and was suprised to hear we were within a game with y'all.

Our guys (except one), I'm extremely proud of for hanging in there and showing a lot of heart.

It was a great match, but unlike you, not only do it leave a bad taste in my mouth, I still have a knot in my stomach when I think about it.

Let's just say I probably wouldn't have liked the outcome if both teams hadn't been on their feet for 16 hours straight. It got down to the last man standing.

Stones

 

[SnakePool]

My only beef with this tournament, other than the obvious above, was that there was absolutely no reason for a 1am match.... NONE!!


i get there at noon sunday and there are over 30 tables open and the remaining teams are occupying 3 tables.

 

[Dragon Cue]

What a stand-up guy! Rep sent, Paul.

 

[BigBull]

Congrates to all the new champs.it was great to meet alot of new friends.hope to see everyone next year.

 

[mandalamps]

A couple of things..............

First and foremost, I'd like to send out a BIG CONGRATULATIONS to Ernesto!!! WOW! You did great! I am very proud of you! I can't wait to see you do so well in Vegas!!! YOU DA MAN!!!

This is also a shout out to Juan for having an outstanding tournament himself! Way to go sweetie! You are awesome and you deserve all the recognition you can get - you put so much into this game that it's about time you got some reward out of it!

On another note, Paul - thanks for coming on here and stating your opinion/side on the matter.

Bull, it was nice super cool to meet you! Take care until we see ya next time!!!!

Peace,
Amanda

 

[Papa Red]

Congrates to all the new champs.it was great to meet alot of new friends.hope to see everyone next year.

I know everything was running behind and too the wee hours in the morning. I think Bull and Chris (I think that was her name) did a good job overall. It always nice too meet good people and make new friends.:thumbup:

 

[akaTrigger]

Congrats to all the new champs.it was great to meet a lot of new friends.hope to see everyone next year.

You run an awesome tournament, Bull! You have a presence about you that allows for taking care of things if situations arise. Nice voice, too.

Thanks again for the well-run tournament!

See ya in Vegas!

 

[McKinneyMiner]

I think Bull putting out a bounty on our team was weak...!! :grin-square:

However he commands a presence that forces a "yes sir may I have another" from my mouth

Must be nice to big and tattooed...

 

[akaTrigger]

First and foremost, I'd like to send out a BIG CONGRATULATIONS to Ernesto!!! WOW! You did great! I am very proud of you! I can't wait to see you do so well in Vegas!!! YOU DA MAN!!!

Peace,
Amanda

I agree, Ernesto played phenomenal! I was SO happy for him! It was awesome he won the tourney - Jerry Behnke didn't have a chance in both sets in the finals (that's how well Ernesto was playing)! I can't wait to see him storm Vegas!! :thumbup:

 

[McKinneyMiner]

When Ernesto has that break working he is almost impossible to beat...

He makes 4 or 5 balls on the break every time he hits them and is simply playing a different game than the rest of us...

And now his tactical game has really improved to go along with that break so that he is now just plain hard to beat no matter what...

Great shooting...!!

 

[akaTrigger]

When Ernesto has that break working he is almost impossible to beat...

He makes 4 or 5 balls on the break every time he hits them and is simply playing a different game than the rest of us...

And now his tactical game has really improved to go along with that break so that he is now just plain hard to beat no matter what...

Great shooting...!!

Not only that, his jumping accuracy is awe-inspiring! WOW!

 

[McKinneyMiner]

I have seen Ernesto play for the last 3 or 4 years and that break is just otherwordly...

In all the matches I have watched of his the only time I ever saw him make a break "mistake" was a jump off the table against Juan...

He hit some off-center breaks against Juan and Jerry, but that table jump is the only real mistake from his break I have ever seen him make...

 

[Stones]

You run an awesome tournament, Bull! You have a presence about you that allows for taking care of things if situations arise. Nice voice, too.

Thanks again for the well-run tournament!

See ya in Vegas!

Yeah, since I was sweating most of the ladies' matches from Thursday through the weekend, I heard a lot of comments from the girls about Bull's voice.

I don't want this to go to his head but the terms sexy, deep, rich, etc. were in wide use among the ladies.

From one TD to another, Bull, you did a great job!

Stones

 

[Captain K.]

Results and pay outs

Have they posted the results and payouts for the state tourny anywhere?
Thanks Kennan