thank you to CJ Wiley for teaching, learning, growing and sharing!

[CJ Wiley]

The Game has given me a life time of enjoyable moments

Thanks, I appreciate your words, brother - there will always be resistance to positive change in any discipline - it's "the nature of the beast" (gotta love April Wine).

It takes all kinds to make up this amazing world - seeing thousands of people using, benefiting and enjoying TOI and my other "secrets" makes it all worth while.

It's funny to look back and see those that didn't "real eyes" I was really giving up the secrets......back in the 80s I would never have dreamed of giving the public TOI.

The game has given me a life time of enjoyable moments, it's simply my turn to give back to my Teacher, and folks who want to really learn "the techniques of the road warriors".....'The Game is the Teacher' click

Personally I not only appreciate that he gives knowledge selflessly but also truly admire the manner in which CJ comports himself in response to the insulting negative comments he often receives from some here in this forum for nothing more than attempting to help others in this game we all love. You sir are truly a master of restraint and class.

 

[PINKLADY]

....It's funny to look back and see those that didn't "real eyes" I was really giving up the secrets......back in the 80s I would never have dreamed of giving the public TOI.

The game has given me a life time of enjoyable moments, it's simply my turn to give back to my Teacher, and folks who want to really learn "the techniques of the road warriors".....'The Game is the Teacher' ....

you're passing the torch. good for you. it's cool that a Pro, will speak to & advise laypeople at no charge. and regardless of those who sometimes disagree eek - you maintain a sense of humor & continue to "hang".

love you or hate you - your game, deserves respect CJ.
.

 

[CJ Wiley]

looking through "a lens lifetime of judgements, rationalizations and justifications"

Thanks "PinkLady", and yes I've always brought out the polarity in people...and that's typical in this {pool} world it seems. Maybe I'm exactly where I need to be.

I used to be much more judgemental of others, then someone told me I was looking through "a lens lifetime of judgements, rationalizations and justifications"....I'm glad that's changed, it sure makes a difference.

you're passing the torch. good for you. it's cool that a Pro, will speak to & advise laypeople at no charge. and regardless of those who sometimes disagree eek - you maintain a sense of humor & continue to "hang".

love you or hate you - your game, deserves respect CJ.
.

 

[CJ Wiley]

angles that align to our subconscious more congruently

One thing about learning the "Inside Approach" is it builds a solid foundation of natural angles.....angles that align to our subconscious more congruently (it seems).

I know my game goes up several balls using TOI, although it still {sometimes} doesn't feel as "natural" as playing the conventional way.

"if it feels right it's probably wrong"

I tip my hat to you CJ, thanks for all that you do. I have only worked with TOI for a few outings, but I look forward to more. It's been fun, interesting, and effective.

 

[Neil]

Wow! Great thread! I've just been sitting back and saying to myself...yep...yep...been there.. done that...noticed that...been working on that. I'm even beginning to learn a bunch of stuff from Mikjary on these T.O.I threads

Anyhow; as for your above comments; I've always suspected there was a throw effect that occurs with T.O.I. When the cue ball and object ball initially make contact I suspect the tangent line does not point straight towards the side of the pocket, which is where I am aiming. I suspect the tangent line points more towards the point of the pocket and at initial contact the cue ball hugs the object ball while horizontally rotating and it is only at the point of release that the tangent line is pointing towards the side of the pocket. Are my suspicions correct?

Since for whatever reason CJ isn't going to help you with your question, do you understand now where you went wrong in your statement?

 

[Mikjary]

Wow! Great thread! I've just been sitting back and saying to myself...yep...yep...been there.. done that...noticed that...been working on that. I'm even beginning to learn a bunch of stuff from Mikjary on these T.O.I threads

Anyhow; as for your above comments; I've always suspected there was a throw effect that occurs with T.O.I. When the cue ball and object ball initially make contact I suspect the tangent line does not point straight towards the side of the pocket, which is where I am aiming. I suspect the tangent line points more towards the point of the pocket and at initial contact the cue ball hugs the object ball while horizontally rotating and it is only at the point of release that the tangent line is pointing towards the side of the pocket. Are my suspicions correct?

Usually, the phrase "tangent line" is the direction the cue ball takes after contact with the object ball using no top or bottom spin. It's a 90 degree line through the contact point perpendicular to the back of the pocket.



Shot line or ball pocketing line instead of tangent line is the more accepted usage...if I follow your post.

Best,
Mike

 

[His Boy Elroy]

Usually, the phrase "tangent line" is the direction the cue ball takes after contact with the object ball using no top or bottom spin. It's a 90 degree line through the contact point perpendicular to the back of the pocket.

View attachment 340273

Shot line or ball pocketing line instead of tangent line is the more accepted usage...if I follow your post.

Best,
Mike

Oh! Gee! Thanks. I stand corrected. Alright everyone who read my post: In the words of Miss Emily Litella from the early days of Saturday Night Live...never mind.

 

[CJ Wiley]

enlightenment is {occasionally} more about intent than content.

Oh! Gee! Thanks. I stand corrected. Alright everyone who read my post: In the words of Miss Emily Litella from the early days of Saturday Night Live...never mind.

We knew what you meant, bud, don't worry too much about rhetoric and lose sight of the real goal....to perform better and unlock the true mysteries/techniques of the game.

When training players I sometimes have to use 15 different language patterns to stimulate subconscious change. Once someone "clicks" a momentum develops and the rate of improvement increases exponentially - we can only wonder how this phenomenon occurs.

Communication is essential in passing on thoughts and ideas, however, true enlightenment is learned by intention, not retention. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

when 1000 random people were recently polled only 2% said they would watch pool on TV

Thanks everyone for your optimistic words - I'm excited to have signed two TV contracts this week - for me it's the only way to truly make a difference in bringing back pool's popularity. The key to a great TV Pool Show is ENTERTAINMENT and I believe the people I'm currently working with understand the "formula for pool's success".

Some AZ members are making impressive points about why pool's not as popular now as it was in the 90's (when Millions of people watched pool on ESPN).

The fact is when 1000 random people were recently polled only 2% said they would watch pool on TV, and the reasons appeared simple.

It didn't matter how much money was involved or even what type of pool game it was. On the other hand when ask if they would be interested in watching pool if they knew the player and had heard them tell interesting stories about gambling at pool and life on the road, it jumped up to over 70%. Then when ask if they would gamble on their favorite players the numbers jumped up to over 80%. And the older demographic was 90%.

This puts a big hole in the stories saying "pool's not successful because of the image of gambling and hustling". It's quite the contrary my pool friends, the fact is pool can not be successful without the image of hustling and gambling.

This is the "powder" in the magic bullet and the key that unlocks the door to understanding the real reason pool has declined in the past 15 years. After all the waves were all made by 'THE HUSTLER' and 'THE COLOR OF MONEY'.

I road the last wave and did very well until about 10 years after the release of the 'Color of Money' (1986 Movie starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise). I cringe every time I hear about the image or the game its self being the problem. In fact the solution is using the strength of pool, which is the underworld characters.

Finding a way to bring out the gambling action in an exciting, classy, tasteful way and positioning it to maximize entertainment value. Mixed martial arts recently did this, World Wide Wrestling and Texas Hold'em are doing it. And our very own Minnesota Fats took on the role of a movie character and did it years ago. The Game of pool is fine, it's the personalities that need the special attention and the character building.

This can be strategically done with the help of true acting professionals and a well scripted pool plot and theme. It's been proven twice that the masses will enjoy the allure of pocket billiards. 'The Hustler', then 'The Color of Money", now the question is "what's the next thing to captivate America, a documentary, a reality show, or another movie? Maybe we need to get ahold of Tom Cruise.

 

[JoeyA]

Thanks everyone for your optimistic words - I'm excited to have signed two TV contracts this week - for me it's the only way to truly make a difference in bringing back pool's popularity. The key to a great TV Pool Show is ENTERTAINMENT and I believe the people I'm currently working with understand the "formula for pool's success".

Some AZ members are making impressive points about why pool's not as popular now as it was in the 90's (when Millions of people watched pool on ESPN).

The fact is when 1000 random people were recently polled only 2% said they would watch pool on TV, and the reasons appeared simple.

It didn't matter how much money was involved or even what type of pool game it was. On the other hand when ask if they would be interested in watching pool if they knew the player and had heard them tell interesting stories about gambling at pool and life on the road, it jumped up to over 70%. Then when ask if they would gamble on their favorite players the numbers jumped up to over 80%. And the older demographic was 90%.

This puts a big hole in the stories saying "pool's not successful because of the image of gambling and hustling". It's quite the contrary my pool friends, the fact is pool can not be successful without the image of hustling and gambling.

This is the "powder" in the magic bullet and the key that unlocks the door to understanding the real reason pool has declined in the past 15 years. After all the waves were all made by 'THE HUSTLER' and 'THE COLOR OF MONEY'.

I road the last wave and did very well until about 10 years after the release of the 'Color of Money' (1986 Movie starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise). I cringe every time I hear about the image or the game its self being the problem. In fact the solution is using the strength of pool, which is the underworld characters.

Finding a way to bring out the gambling action in an exciting, classy, tasteful way and positioning it to maximize entertainment value. Mixed martial arts recently did this, World Wide Wrestling and Texas Hold'em are doing it. And our very own Minnesota Fats took on the role of a movie character and did it years ago. The Game of pool is fine, it's the personalities that need the special attention and the character building.

This can be strategically done with the help of true acting professionals and a well scripted pool plot and theme. It's been proven twice that the masses will enjoy the allure of pocket billiards. 'The Hustler', then 'The Color of Money", now the question is "what's the next thing to captivate America, a documentary, a reality show, or another movie? Maybe we need to get ahold of Tom Cruise.

Tom Cruise is too old to play a "real" pool player.

JoeyA

 

[victorl]

Forget Tom, let's bring back Keith as retired hustler, Grady Seasons, who meets a talented young kid, takes him on the road, and teaches him the art of the hustle.

Somewhere along the way, Grady realizes that he misses the game and is still one of the best. Then in the thrilling climax they decide to match up against each other, and suddenly the credits roll just before the match begins.

I'd pay to watch that.

 

[Colonel]

Thanks everyone for your optimistic words - I'm excited to have signed two TV contracts this week - for me it's the only way to truly make a difference in bringing back pool's popularity. The key to a great TV Pool Show is ENTERTAINMENT and I believe the people I'm currently working with understand the "formula for pool's success".

Some AZ members are making impressive points about why pool's not as popular now as it was in the 90's (when Millions of people watched pool on ESPN).

The fact is when 1000 random people were recently polled only 2% said they would watch pool on TV, and the reasons appeared simple.

It didn't matter how much money was involved or even what type of pool game it was. On the other hand when ask if they would be interested in watching pool if they knew the player and had heard them tell interesting stories about gambling at pool and life on the road, it jumped up to over 70%. Then when ask if they would gamble on their favorite players the numbers jumped up to over 80%. And the older demographic was 90%.

This puts a big hole in the stories saying "pool's not successful because of the image of gambling and hustling". It's quite the contrary my pool friends, the fact is pool can not be successful without the image of hustling and gambling.

This is the "powder" in the magic bullet and the key that unlocks the door to understanding the real reason pool has declined in the past 15 years. After all the waves were all made by 'THE HUSTLER' and 'THE COLOR OF MONEY'.

I road the last wave and did very well until about 10 years after the release of the 'Color of Money' (1986 Movie starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise). I cringe every time I hear about the image or the game its self being the problem. In fact the solution is using the strength of pool, which is the underworld characters.

Finding a way to bring out the gambling action in an exciting, classy, tasteful way and positioning it to maximize entertainment value. Mixed martial arts recently did this, World Wide Wrestling and Texas Hold'em are doing it. And our very own Minnesota Fats took on the role of a movie character and did it years ago. The Game of pool is fine, it's the personalities that need the special attention and the character building.

This can be strategically done with the help of true acting professionals and a well scripted pool plot and theme. It's been proven twice that the masses will enjoy the allure of pocket billiards. 'The Hustler', then 'The Color of Money", now the question is "what's the next thing to captivate America, a documentary, a reality show, or another movie? Maybe we need to get ahold of Tom Cruise.

First of all congratulations & I hope you succeed as our sport needs this shot in the arm. Secondly I agree with the assessment that the numbers of the poll show that people are interested in the gambling aspect of it, the success of the movies mentioned show that. This is where it gets tricky though.

You say this puts a big hole in the allegations that pool has always suffered because of its image of gambling & hustling. It really doesn't though. Pool has never been what it should be because there is not the corporate sponsorship out there for a viable tour where it's best players can make a living & the reason there has never been sponsorship is because of that image. Corporate wonks have always been leery of putting $ behind pool because of the image of gambling & the fear of how their corporations would be perceived if associated with the spectre of gambling. Sadly it's this lack of sponsorship that deprives the games players of a living keeps us gambling to be able to make a living & on and on its gone like a dog chasing its tail.

Look at the WPBA, for years it had corporate sponsorship because the spectre of gambling had never been associated with women pool players, only men. They also had very strict rules in place about gambling & other codes of conduct in place for fear of doing anything to scare that sponsorship away.

I agree with the poll numbers, it's clear what the populace wants but it's about convincing those that could provide corporate sponsorship for a viable tour that being associated with mens pool which is full of stone cold gamblers won't tarnish their image or brand as they like to call it thereby harming their profits. Hopefully your endeavor can change that & get them to embrace that instead of shunning it as they always have.

 

[yankee817299]

Why then does The World Poker Tour make it on TV?

 

[CJ Wiley]

"All the World's a Stage"

"Cleaning up pool's image" would be like "cleaning up the mob's image" before they filmed 'The Godfather'.

Don't let anyone fool you, pool's problem isn't a "bad" image these days, it's that there's "no image" and people are left to imagine whatever they want (left to their own accord the general public will always think the worst).

We need professional "image makers" to create the ideal pool image using THE REAL INFORMATION and conforming it into a sellable product (so to speak).

"All the World's a Stage" - and the curtain is about to be pulled for the game of pool.

First of all congratulations & I hope you succeed as our sport needs this shot in the arm. Secondly I agree with the assessment that the numbers of the poll show that people are interested in the gambling aspect of it, the success of the movies mentioned show that. This is where it gets tricky though.

You say this puts a big hole in the allegations that pool has always suffered because of its image of gambling & hustling. It really doesn't though. Pool has never been what it should be because there is not the corporate sponsorship out there for a viable tour where it's best players can make a living & the reason there has never been sponsorship is because of that image. Corporate wonks have always been leery of putting $ behind pool because of the image of gambling & the fear of how their corporations would be perceived if associated with the spectre of gambling. Sadly it's this lack of sponsorship that deprives the games players of a living keeps us gambling to be able to make a living & on and on its gone like a dog chasing its tail.

Look at the WPBA, for years it had corporate sponsorship because the spectre of gambling had never been associated with women pool players, only men. They also had very strict rules in place about gambling & other codes of conduct in place for fear of doing anything to scare that sponsorship away.

I agree with the poll numbers, it's clear what the populace wants but it's about convincing those that could provide corporate sponsorship for a viable tour that being associated with mens pool which is full of stone cold gamblers won't tarnish their image or brand as they like to call it thereby harming their profits. Hopefully your endeavor can change that & get them to embrace that instead of shunning it as they always have.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

"Cleaning up pool's image" would be like "cleaning up the mob's image" before they filmed 'The Godfather'.

Don't let anyone fool you, pool's problem isn't a "bad" image these days, it's that there's "no image" and people are left to imagine whatever they want (left to their own accord the general public will always think the worst).

We need professional "image makers" to create the ideal pool image using THE REAL INFORMATION and conforming it into a sellable product (so to speak).

"All the World's a Stage" - and the curtain is about to be pulled for the game of pool.

CJ, Congratulations on the contracts. Can you give any other information or hints as to when and what channel you are working with? Maybe 2015 air date?

 

[Colonel]

"Cleaning up pool's image" would be like "cleaning up the mob's image" before they filmed 'The Godfather'.

Don't let anyone fool you, pool's problem isn't a "bad" image these days, it's that there's "no image" and people are left to imagine whatever they want (left to their own accord the general public will always think the worst).

We need professional "image makers" to create the ideal pool image using THE REAL INFORMATION and conforming it into a sellable product (so to speak).

"All the World's a Stage" - and the curtain is about to be pulled for the game of pool.

I never wanted to have anyone cleanup our image, just accept us as we are, got action?

 

[CJ Wiley]

like all other "simple" things, it takes a considerable effort and expertise

That's a great point!!!

When I was gambling on the road we all considered poker players "low lifes" and they would do anything for money......even cheat and hustle people (this may have been hypocritical LoL). I traveled with a couple of card mechanics and they did make me nervous because of their lack of fear....they would beat anybody in any place. I ask them "what happens if they catch you," and they would say "that's their problem, not mine".....and they were serious.

Back to Poker On TV.......IT'S A SHOW!!!

If someone ask Barry Hearn that founded the "Mosconi Cup" to describe this event in four words or less I'd guess he'd say "A Great Pool Show"......and be proud to say it.

This is the key ----> the entertainment aspect MUST be brought out in pool and it's been there all along. Pool is very, very interesting to the general public, not necessarily just the game......it's the characters and personalities that gamble that intrigues them.

Poker is a huge marketing machine because they figured this simple formula out....although like all other "simple" things, it takes a considerable effort and expertise to format it effectively......produce it professionally.....and promote it properly.

Why then does The World Poker Tour make it on TV?

 

[CJ Wiley]

an inner teacher, expressed superbly, yet concealed cleverly in a game

Our image is not "bad," it's just not been developed and randomly exists with no real continuity. Like anything in business, if it's not positioned in people's minds correctly the outcome is generally going to lack "color and sizzle," and even worse, it may die.

I left the game of pool for many years and got involved in the nightclub business. We generated an impressive record and economy for staff, vendors and management.

We also set a goal to be the "best in Texas" and accomplished this aspiration with Carsons Palace. It had the highest recorded TABC sales out of restaurants, bars, and nightclubs in the state of Texas. We also attracted one of the best management staffs I could ever hope to be a part of.......they were a bar and restaurant "dream team".

Our team managed a staff of over 120 "all star" employees and was "on top of the world" in terms of public perception and notoriety in the "night club/bar" business. To the casual observer it appeared Carsons had "made it"....and for time it had, and did.

You would think this would be a "live happily ever after story", but there was one thing that "interfered" with my peace of mind. There was something missing and it bothered me.

I had a friend that had done everything in their power for me. A friend that had fed me, given me the ability to travel the country and see the world, a friend that through thick and thin had always been with me, guiding, directing, building character, confidence, and wisdom. A friend that had safely paved the way out of a small, Missouri town and to the "land of potential and prosperity".

I started getting this dreadful feeling that I had left this friend wounded, with not enough strength to make it on it's own. I told some people what I had done, but they didn't understand, how could they? After all to many people pocket billiards is "just a game".

It's difficult for just anyone to understand that this friend I had such a deep admiration and love for was not a person, not a place and not a thing. It was an inner teacher, expressed superbly, yet concealed cleverly in a game - the game that had inspired me as a child.

It's time to help the teacher get back on it's feet, like the Pledge of Allegiance, "it starts with 'I' it ends with 'ALL'. - 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

I never wanted to have anyone cleanup our image, just accept us as we are, got action? ��

 

[(((Satori)))]

First of all congratulations & I hope you succeed as our sport needs this shot in the arm. Secondly I agree with the assessment that the numbers of the poll show that people are interested in the gambling aspect of it, the success of the movies mentioned show that. This is where it gets tricky though.

You say this puts a big hole in the allegations that pool has always suffered because of its image of gambling & hustling. It really doesn't though. Pool has never been what it should be because there is not the corporate sponsorship out there for a viable tour where it's best players can make a living & the reason there has never been sponsorship is because of that image. Corporate wonks have always been leery of putting $ behind pool because of the image of gambling & the fear of how their corporations would be perceived if associated with the spectre of gambling. Sadly it's this lack of sponsorship that deprives the games players of a living keeps us gambling to be able to make a living & on and on its gone like a dog chasing its tail.

Look at the WPBA, for years it had corporate sponsorship because the spectre of gambling had never been associated with women pool players, only men. They also had very strict rules in place about gambling & other codes of conduct in place for fear of doing anything to scare that sponsorship away.

I agree with the poll numbers, it's clear what the populace wants but it's about convincing those that could provide corporate sponsorship for a viable tour that being associated with mens pool which is full of stone cold gamblers won't tarnish their image or brand as they like to call it thereby harming their profits. Hopefully your endeavor can change that & get them to embrace that instead of shunning it as they always have.

There are plenty of corporate sponsors who would stand behind pool if pool had a fanbase.

The ideas of what corporate America will attach themselves to and what the general public will accept are distorted imo.

Pool can be shown in a way that is exciting and is accepted by both fans and sponsors but this "what do people think about me" approach taken now isn't working because they are being cautious to the point of being boring. What sponsors have they got with that approach?

Dana White gets sponsors and he goes in there with an I don't give a f@ck attitude... as this video with graphic language shows. http://youtu.be/muQXdxMmX8Q

Of course that's his style and I'm not suggesting that any pool promoter adopt it. I'm just saying, he keeps it real and it's not P.C. but the sponsors still come because the sport has fans.

Pool has a much better image than what mma did in the early days and even if we marketed some of the underbelly activity, as I've seen it described here, we could still have a better image in a lot of people's eyes than mma has now and we would get sponsors if we had the fans. That is what I think anyways.

 

[JoeyA]

The next time, you slightly undercut an object ball using outside spin and miss pocketing the ball, set up the exact same shot aim the same way and just use TOI (A touch of inside).

A lot of people squirt the cue ball into the object ball and undercut it when using outside english.

JoeyA