The Art of Lagging
- Thread starter KoolKat9Lives
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what's the rush?
Good replies, thanks!
Hey, a Q?. Does anyone else feel rushed when they lag? Like, "I'd better pull the trigger quicker than a normal shot, 'cause that's what's expected?"
Good replies, thanks!
Hey, a Q?. Does anyone else feel rushed when they lag? Like, "I'd better pull the trigger quicker than a normal shot, 'cause that's what's expected?"
Interesting question... I actually try to get my shot off first in effort to "Rush" the other player
I treat the lag the same as I would any other shot during the game. With what ever time I need.
Lagging to the rail is very vague to me so in my mind I imagine a ball frozen to the rail and I'm playing the cue ball to roll up and touch that ball the same as I would do in a game situation.
The conventional way is to lag it off the foot rail and bring it back to you, as close to the head rail as possible. It doesn't matter if it hits the head rail or not, closest to it wins.
Careful though, some stranger than life people may say if you hit the head rail, you lose, but that's not the norm.
I also think the lag is important not only for getting the speed of the table, but to see if the table rolls one way or another. Playing in the APA, we play in different bars/poolhalls often. They don't always keep up the tables the way you would like. You only need to hit one rail, but I believe if your ball touches a side (long) rail or the opponents ball or goes in a pocket then you lose the lag. Gotta watch for that on some really bad tables.:thumbup:
Importance of the lag
weirdhen...You been misinformed here, about the necessity of the lag speed stroke. The exact same energy it takes, to lag the CB up and down the table, is the SAME amount of energy it takes to play a shot at 'pocket speed'...so at any ability level, it is vital to understand and master this speed stroke (without having to "poke" at it). I also agree with other posters, that the lag is a skill shot...much more consistent than a coin flip.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
weirdhen...You been misinformed here, about the necessity of the lag speed stroke. The exact same energy it takes, to lag the CB up and down the table, is the SAME amount of energy it takes to play a shot at 'pocket speed'...so at any ability level, it is vital to understand and master this speed stroke (without having to "poke" at it). I also agree with other posters, that the lag is a skill shot...much more consistent than a coin flip.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I am in the APA. I like the idea of lagging for the break. It takes skill and gives you a feel for the table.
There have been a few times when I lined up for the lag just as a joke I would call time out. Try it sometimes just to see the reactions.
There have been a few times when I lined up for the lag just as a joke I would call time out. Try it sometimes just to see the reactions.
Rules for the Lag from the world standard rules site.
http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament#1.2
1.2 Lagging to Determine Order of Play
The lag is the first shot of the match and determines order of play. The player who wins the lag chooses who will shoot first.
The referee will place a ball on each side of the table behind the head string and near the head string. The players will shoot at about the same time to make each ball contact the foot cushion with the goal of returning the ball closer to the head cushion than the opponent.
A lag shot is bad and cannot win if the shooter’s ball:
(a) crosses the long string;
(b) contacts the foot cushion other than once;
(c) is pocketed or driven off the table;
(d) touches the side cushion; or
(e) the ball rests within the corner pocket and past the nose of the head cushion.
In addition, a lag will be bad if any non-object-ball foul occurs other than 6.9 Balls Still Moving.
The players will lag again if:
(a) a player’s ball is struck after the other ball has touched the foot cushion;
(b) the referee cannot determine which ball has stopped closer to the head cushion; or
(c) both lags are bad.
I don't know how it is in pool, but in international 3-cushion competition you lose the lag automatically if you don't shoot your ball before the opponent's ball reaches the 1st (end) rail. They do this in an attempt to avoid the 2nd player having the advantage of seeing how the lag is progressing with the speed used by the starting shooter. Also, you can't cross the center line of the table or touch a side cushion. In refereed matches, the player's aren't even allow to place their own ball and have to use the official starting positions on the headstring.
I once 'won' a lag in a World Cup event because my opponent waited too long to lag. That same opponent 'won' the lag against me in later national event that didn't having lag timing rules. He didn't shoot his ball until my ball stopped and I had already walked back and sat in my chair. It didn't violate the surprisingly incomplete tournament rules, but many would consider that bad sportsmanship, regardless. He remembered our previous match and I suspect intentionally prolonged his start more than normal just because of it. (In his defense, my ball was less than an inch from the rail and he made a great lag to win.)
Btw, many time US champ Frank Torres showed me why that international rule sounds good, but isn't workable in practice. He said, "Ok, let's lag..." We put the balls down, and before I even took a practice stroke he fired his down the table 100mph and touched the rail first.
I think a good rule is important, but finding an unambiguous way to word it is quite challenging!Robert
This one gets missed pretty often, but I think this rule is responsible for the tendency to hurry that KoolKat mentioned.
There's kind of an unspoken rule that both players should lag at the same time, so the guy that goes first has the advantage over the other guy....Who's going "Oh shit, I better hurry up and lag!"
I have been accused of being anal, and this may be one instance. How about people did a 1, 2, 3 go! 3 practice strokes and then fire.
There's obviously some gray area here, and some can be used to gain an unfair advantage (not that anyone that plays pool would do such a thing).
I did not know about the rule Tom and 420 mention (lose the lag if your opponent's ball hits the foot rail before you make contact). Seems unenforced, doesn't it? I'll watch future matches...
Interesting...kind of like The Price is Right - closest without going over
It reminds me of an important strategy for lagging that was first mentioned in print by Jack Koehler in The Science of Pocket Billiards: always try to touch the end rail. Or more precisely, everyone has a certain margin of error for where the ball stops, and the center target of your range should be beyond the cushion rather than exactly frozen to it because of cushion inefficiency. The cushion isn't close to 100% efficient (especially in pool), so it significantly reduces the rebound distance and moves the ideal target center beyond the rail.
The other physics trick for the lag is using an optimal tip height when striking the CB. The height to use is about 1/5 radius above center, or about where the nose of the cushion contacts the ball. Another way to think of it is about half of max follow. (tip contact point, not center of shaft location.)
Why it works: If you use pure center ball, the CB slows down too much when developing roll. Hit it too high, and you roll immediately but not as fast because you use energy to make it spin. The "half-follow" height maximizes the rolling speed, and therefore is at a hump in the velocity curve that is least sensitive to slight tip height differences. (I call it the Sang Lee Height, because he used it all the time for short angles and the like even when the CB had roll by the time it hit anything. He was very known for his fine speed control, and I think intuitively arriving at that tip height was one of his many secrets.)
As a final practical matter, I choke up on my cue to a place I only use for lag shots. I feel I control the slower speed better with the smaller backswing/followthrough, and I find it has psychological value by anchoring only the lag to that particular hand position. Of course, I mostly play on super-fast carom tables so I would have to lengthen it a bit for most pool tables.
Robert
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You don't lose the lag, both players have to re-lag.
If your opponent his their ball 1st and you don't hit your ball until after his hits the foot rail, RE-LAG. NO loss of lag.
I tell the tournament players that if they want to ask their opponents about the rules that is ok. But if they come to be for a ruling, I have to be the final say. Otherwise, we'd all still be arguing about the call, rule or why the rule is in place.... plus I have a current copy of the rules they can read, rather than accepting someone's version or mine for that matter. But I have to reserve the final ruling.
shawnbarley
Banned
When I walk up to you, I have my Kennedy 50 cent piece out, show it to you saying flip or lag. If you say flip I say heads and toss it. I win 100% of the time, both sides, are of course heads.
If you say lag, I win 95% of the time, unless you flat out get lucky, because I practice it 10 times a day and you never do.
Playing a run out pro has different stategies than a league amateur. Assume its a league amateur, at 9ball I want him to break first, so I call tails knowing I will lose. He breaks, tries to run out and usually dogs and leaves me a simple 3 or 4 ball out to win.
At 8 ball I want to break and gain control of the rack.
Or at least that's my story and I'm stickin to it. Wadda I no? All I know, is I no nuttin. nuk nuk nuk.
If you say lag, I win 95% of the time, unless you flat out get lucky, because I practice it 10 times a day and you never do.
Playing a run out pro has different stategies than a league amateur. Assume its a league amateur, at 9ball I want him to break first, so I call tails knowing I will lose. He breaks, tries to run out and usually dogs and leaves me a simple 3 or 4 ball out to win.
At 8 ball I want to break and gain control of the rack.
Or at least that's my story and I'm stickin to it. Wadda I no? All I know, is I no nuttin. nuk nuk nuk.
Flipping a coin is decisive. I've seen a bunch of lags where it really does look like a tie, or depending on which side of the table you look from, it looks likes one ball is closer to the head rail or the other.
Flipping a coin also eliminates the situation where the second person that lags may watch the first person's lag a little too long before they lag. If you see that your opponent has just slammed their lag, you might ease up on yours, knowing that pretty much anything above the side pocket is probably going to win.
All of this being said, I do like to lag to get the speed of the cloth down. If I am pretty familiar with the table and my opponent is not, I will flip. If we're both new to the table, I could go either way.
Flipping a coin also eliminates the situation where the second person that lags may watch the first person's lag a little too long before they lag. If you see that your opponent has just slammed their lag, you might ease up on yours, knowing that pretty much anything above the side pocket is probably going to win.
All of this being said, I do like to lag to get the speed of the cloth down. If I am pretty familiar with the table and my opponent is not, I will flip. If we're both new to the table, I could go either way.
I do hope you are kidding.
How about this for the art of the lag.
In a lag for break tournament. When your opponent comes to the table pull out a coin and say call it. Good things can happen hear. 1. You win the flip and go ahead and break. 2. If you lose the flip then you say oh wait I'm sorry this is a lag for break tournament. We have to lag. Lmao!