The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

stumpie71

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gene
I look forward to speaking with you.

I didn't go to an optitician. I was involved in a project through work and subsequently invited to participate with the project after some persons had to drop out. Identifying ocular dominance happened to be part of physical. Everything was very thorough and for the sighting portion more involved than the typical tests however I did those as well
There isn't any doubt which is my dominant eye. :D
 

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's a detailed response. I'm not saying whatever teaching you do is bad, or anything. People love lessons. Some would rather take lessons than really compete. I think that's great. There is something in pool for everyone, and I hope your calendar stays full to the brim with appointments!

However, could we be giving a little bit more credit to the dominant eye theory than it deserves? Are you leaving out the fact that before you even get down ON the shot, you should have already found the shot line and contact point on the object ball while standing up in your pre-shot routine? Jimmy Reid taught me this (I took a lesson or two once many moons ago) and it changed my game. This doesn't require a dominant eye to do. If you know how to do this part, you can almost get right down, close your eyes, and make the ball.



There are great players all over the place that are opposite dominant. And it isn't a big deal. Some naturally got the dominant eye in a more dominant position naturally so they got playing better allot quicker than someone that didn't. Some lower level players never get the left eye over at all resulting in a permanent 3 rating in APA for the rest of their lives. Once they learn this the results are off the charts. They can see the shots as well as the others and the time they practice is not wasted just shoving the balls around aimlessly.

Unfortunately. opposite eye dominant players have the right hand, right eye on the right side of their body. Coming down on the shot becomes very challenging because they are definitely not in the correct position when they first start. I know because I'm one of them. I know because I have worked with so many lower level players that stayed lower level all their lives because they didn't ever get over to the left eye naturally.

Players that reach the pro level get there from shooting allot and repetition. Just like chopping wood with an axe your eyes and hands will coordinate eventually so you are hitting the spot on the wood you want to. This is so much like aiming a pool shot. With the axe over your head instead of under, you can favor the dominant eye in turn get better at being accurate. Took me a long time to get the eyes right chopping wood naturally. In the meantime not hitting the spot on the wood correctly resulted in almost hitting my leg with the axe a few times. Once I learned to favor the left eye a little, not knowing why this was, I could chop the wood fast and safer. I was only 13 years old. The start of learning how all this worked.

Shooting pistol at the hip would be the same. If you were left eye dominant you would need to get the head over a little and favor the opposite eye if opposite eye dominant. You can do it but it's a little more effort. But back in the old days if you got shot doing this because everyone shot from the hip and you were in a duel, being opposite eye dominant would be a problem if you didn't practice allot and got the eye over there naturally. Not a very fair fight. One guy is right eye dominant and the other is opposite and never naturally got under the left eye more dominantly correct. Resulting in a crappy shooter. In a duel, dead shooter.

Fortunately in pool we don't get shot. We just feel like it when we play for some money and the other guy shoots our nutz off.

It is not a trick to learn manually how to get the eyes in the most correct position. It can be learned by anyone by someone that understands how this all works.

Some of the players I have showed this to have become some of the top players in the world. How does this happen? They got the eyes in the most correct position possible at a young age. They skipped the natural learning curve of trying to get the eyes there from shooting a million balls and repetition. Learning how to get the eyes there manually they were able to make the other things in the game work so much better and quicker.

From doing over 2,000 lessons teaching how this all works and seeing the almost unbelievable results, there is no doubt that this is the most important thing any pool player could learn. Anyone that I teach experiences the same results. They just know how it is. They can see it with their own eyes. I even get calls sometimes when they tell their friends and the friends just blow them off. They know for sure and the friend discards it as goofy because he just doesn't know.

One of the testimonials on here from JV was that this would help many higher level players. I seen him play on some videos he sent me. Anyone can watch the same videos on this thread. He plays at a professional level for sure. But he could clearly see from our perfect aim lesson that this even helped him envision the shot better and gave him more confidence in the shot. It does happen naturally to a certain extent but by manually knowing you can get it perfect and perfect is so much better than guessing because it just doesn't look quite right.

Even other teachers that teach pool might think they understand this totally by just knowing someone needs to get the dominant eye in a dominant position but this is just the tip of the iceberg.

There is no video of this or book that gets this correct. This had to be figured out from scratch. Took 5 years on the road doing 15 to 20 lessons per week. A local teacher has trouble even dong one or 2 lessons a week. Run out of students that don't know it all.

Seeing the same things over and over it was pretty safe to say that this was a problem and this is how to fix it. I had unlimited guinea pigs, pool players, to practice the art of Perfect Aim and perfect it.

Just like many players on these threads that say this is how it is or that is how it is for sure, they have no idea really at all. I know this because I know much more of the story there is.

The first year I was teaching what I thought I knew it all. But in all reality, I only knew just a small portion of what Perfect Aim would eventually become. I named it Perfect Aim but it is not an aiming system. It became a complete shooting system that would help any player envision their shot perfectly all the time.

Coordinating the stance, grip, cue, stroke and dominant eye from the preshot to the ball going in the hole.

I had some Top teachers even try to discredit me, saying i just teach aiming which is so far from the truth. I teach every aspect of the game because this effects every aspect of the game.

This makes the game of pool so much more fun. And the players that unknowingly discredit what I teach are doing all players everywhere a great disservice.

From the beginner to the pro this is a must to know. At any level this will allow the player to improve so much faster.

Just like with a gun with a crooked sight, I'm just showing players how to fix their natural sights manually. But unlike a gun there is so much more that has to be done with a pool shot to make it work correctly. So much more.

Thanks for the input. Just trying to help the game of pool and the players that play the great game we all love. .:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly, Lou. It takes a lot of practice. A lot of "watching" and "studying" great players. It's good to take lessons for sure! And, you have to get in the grease and take your lumps! You have to learn how to play under pressure and deal with it. Learn how to excel under it. You have to ask yourself, are you a competitive person? Do you have a competitive spirit? I mean, ultimately the point of pool is not to attain enlightenment, it's to prove that your skills and game are better than your opponents. Like Vinnie said, "It's just some balls and a stick, man."

P.S. I'm not 100% sold on the pause. I've known some great players with no pause. Sometimes, when under pressure....I'll eliminate the pause and just "feel" the right time to release and I've played good that way. I learned that from Jimmy Reid as well. It's good for when you're feeling some nerves..

The reality is that no one ever tells you how hard it is, and how much work it takes, to get really good at pool, or anything else.

Too many think they're going to take some lessons, adopt a pause in their stroke, read a book, or learn an aiming system and magically get way better.

ah, if it were only so easy.

Lou Figueroa
 
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genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Key here is almost get down right...

That's a detailed response. I'm not saying whatever teaching you do is bad, or anything. People love lessons. Some would rather take lessons than really compete. I think that's great. There is something in pool for everyone, and I hope your calendar stays full to the brim with appointments!

However, could we be giving a little bit more credit to the dominant eye theory than it deserves? Are you leaving out the fact that before you even get down ON the shot, you should have already found the shot line and contact point on the object ball while standing up in your pre-shot routine? Jimmy Reid taught me this (I took a lesson or two once many moons ago) and it changed my game. This doesn't require a dominant eye to do. If you know how to do this part, you can almost get right down, close your eyes, and make the ball.

Our aiming all starts in the preshot. Almost, , , covers a huge area. Someones almost is way better or way worse than someone elses.

It all has to start there with the eyes, stance , body and stroke and there is only one best way to do this. Not one way fits all but a way to help everyone get it done. 7 foot tall. 280 pounds. Women are built a little different. We are all a little different. With some coaching on this we can all get to the best position to get it done. Trying to get this right is like thinking you could get professional results in your golf stance without any help. Ain't gonna happen.

You had the benefit of some help from Jimmy. I played Jimmy. Louisville in the 70's.

Jimmy knew his stuff. The old adage, stand up there where you see the shot good and step into it. Just isn't good enough. Once a player understands how this dominant eye thing works totally they know how far off this is.

Players don't need to know how to get the dominant in the most dominant position to envision the shot but if they want to see it perfectly knowing the dominant eye is a must.

When I do my lessons with anyone at any level my statement that this will cut your misses in half is usually an under estimate. Seeing the shot correctly and confidence go hand in hand.

If you don't know your dominant eye and don't know how to tweak it to see the shot perfectly it's no big deal. You just won't know why you missed the shot or missed the shape. You can just keep blaming it on a crooked stroke, jumped up or was distracted.

Not knowing how to get this dominant eye right will result in all of these and you don't even know it. Pretty sad. Because it can all be fixed at any level.

Just like some of my lessons that posted on this thread like JV's. He plays very well. Could play in any professional tournament and fit right in with the best. This even helps players that play at a higher level. I just need someone to teach. The results are always, You got to be kidding...........no matter what level.

This was unchartered territory when I first started learning how this works. I think at one time they thought the world was flat. Just heard about it? How could everyone be that wrong.

They just didn't know.

That's what everyone is doing in regards to what I teach. they just think so. They don't really know.

The think so's are all wrong. And they won't know any better until they see with their own eyes that the world is round and the dominant eye is the whole thing if you want to improve your game.

It effects every single thing you do when your down aiming a shot.

Like going hunting trying to shoot 200 yards with open sights on the gun.

I just show players where the scope is on their cue and eyes.

It don't get any better than this. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
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genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is something that I haven't shared on this thread.

Gene
I look forward to speaking with you.

I didn't go to an optitician. I was involved in a project through work and subsequently invited to participate with the project after some persons had to drop out. Identifying ocular dominance happened to be part of physical. Everything was very thorough and for the sighting portion more involved than the typical tests however I did those as well
There isn't any doubt which is my dominant eye. :D

Someone that is left eye dominant is capable of shooting under the right eye like a gun. The players that can do this aim very well.

If they are left eye dominant this is not possible to get exactly under the left eye like a gun because it is too close to the left eye dominant position. They fight each other.

To get under the right eye has to start in the preshot or the player will sneak back over to the left eye from time to time.

Many of the player that shoot right under the eye like a gun are like this. The other is is probably their real dominant eye.

But then there are other players like this, as soon as they move the shot over to the other eye they actually get a headache. These players are hard wired the way they are and really envision the shots well.

This is a whole different bag of tricks. But the same basic fundamentals that help everyone work for these players with the exception of a few things that are of the charts as important.

With over 3,000 personal lessons and 10,000 mini lessons, seeing these things over and over I'm not guessing about this.

I don't know what they did to find the dominant eye, or ocular dominance, but I know how to find everyones on the pool table. I know this works. As far as everything else I just don't know. But when I find a dominant eye I make sure that the player can see it for themselves and they know this is their dominant eye 100% for sure.

Seeing is believing. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jimmy Reid's "equal angle opposites" (wonder who named it lol) was the Rosetta Stone for me. After years of drafting diagrams and angles it was like "Hey, retard..."
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Coming from someone that know's for sure and been there..

The reality is that no one ever tells you how hard it is, and how much work it takes, to get really good at pool, or anything else.

Too many think they're going to take some lessons, adopt a pause in their stroke, read a book, or learn an aiming system and magically get way better.

ah, if it were only so easy.

Lou Figueroa

I know you have been there and done that Lou. Your game and skill level reflect that for sure.

When players get down on a shot and they feel like they are just pushing the cue ball towards the object ball, just trying to hit it, that's terrible.

many player like you and myself never experienced this. We got there pretty close from the beginning so this didn't happen to us like what that the lower level players experience.

Once these players get a good look with their own eyes and can see what they are supposed to see if the eyes are right, they seem to get more interested in the game for sure.

I've seen players at lower levels get the good look by learning how to get the eyes right manually and soon the results are off the charts for them. Are they a champion? Not hardly. But they are playing the game at a little higher level immediately and now they are really hooked. They even show up at the pool hall to practice. And now they start to improve. The secret here is improve!!!!!!

The practice they did before didn't seem to do any good at all so why try to pound the nail in the wall with your forehead.

I've seen it over and over and over.

How can you play a pattern if you are just praying to make the shot? How can you even think about hitting the ball with a little English. The stick even looks crooked.

This is what these players go thru.

Fixing this in a real quick hurry is so rewarding to say the least.

:thumbup:
 
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fan-tum

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I found out my aim is pretty good, but my CH always has right spin. Tried every conceivable cure...no luck.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your probably right eye dominant.....

I found out my aim is pretty good, but my CH always has right spin. Tried every conceivable cure...no luck.

Shoot a shot to the right and the left with a bunch of low English each way. Cue ball about 2 ft from the object ball. About a 3/4 ball hit. Low outside each way. You will find that it is harder for you to get low left than it is to get low right.

Low right feels real natural and you can get out to the outside of the ball easily.

Low left not so natural feel and once you think you have left English keep the cue right there and raise your head. You might be surprised to see that you were more towards the middle of the ball than you thought.

Because the right eye is on the right side of your head the middle looks like the left side. So usually when you put left English on the ball your not getting what you think you are.

One of the things I fix that nobody even addresses.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are right eye dominant.

I found out my aim is pretty good, but my CH always has right spin. Tried every conceivable cure...no luck.

Players that are left eye dominant get accidental left English.

Right eye dominant accidental right English. I'll send you a PM that will explain how to fix this.
 

wibo

Registered
whyPN ? this is a forum and there are definitely players like me who are very interested in your solution
 

paolo2144

Registered
hey geno
how hard a rule is this?
I understand I'm right eye dominant
but have only ever had issues with accidental *left* english

I am a bit like you evergruven.

When i do all the tests on eye dominance i am by a long way left eyed dominant, although in terms of eye strength when being tested at opticians if anything my right eye is slightly stronger. My optician says for a guy now on wrong side of 50 my eyesight is really good and still don't need glasses/contacts, although maybe not quite as 100% as 10 years ago.

It is only in last few years i found how crucial it is to find your vision "centre" when alligning/aiming, for me it makes a massive difference to my long straight potting success rate. If i am even a few mm out it makes so much difference to my game. My ideal position is halfway between centre of chin and directly under left eye.

In past when maybe aiming from too close to centre of chin, i found that while i could apply tons of right side to cue ball when i wanted, this was not the case with Left hand side. What i thought was the extreme Left hand side of cue ball was actually nowhere near as far to left of cue ball as i thought. On fixing my vision centre this has improved a fair bit.

However from experience i have learned to aim more to left hand side of cue ball than i think looks naturally correct, so in effect even though i am left eye dominant i can find RHS of cue ball much easier, it may be because i am right handed and also i would say my "depth" perception is not as good as it was 20 years ago.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I found out my aim is pretty good, but my CH always has right spin. Tried every conceivable cure...no luck.

Are you right handed? Does it happen all the time or only on harder hits? I ask because I believe inaccuracy is less a perceptual thing than it is an alignment problem that occurs during the stroke.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very rare but possible...

hey geno
how hard a rule is this?
I understand I'm right eye dominant
but have only ever had issues with accidental *left* english

Most players that get accidental left English are left eye dominant. When someone says this the first thing I check is which eye is the dominant eye for sure?

If a player is relying on the standard pointing and circle technique to identify the dominant eye it doesn't work all the time. 50/50. Like flipping a coin. Some swear by it and the rest aren't sure but might think they are.

Now if you have ocular vision and aim with one eye like a rifle, usually these players have no trouble getting and staying to center. They get right and left English equally for the most part.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where do you get your info from...

Are you right handed? Does it happen all the time or only on harder hits? I ask because I believe inaccuracy is less a perceptual thing than it is an alignment problem that occurs during the stroke.

I base my info on 2,000 plus lessons seeing the same thing over and over and helping players fix the problem.

Just wondering if you teach and had some basis on your thoughts?
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would cause confusion......

whyPN ? this is a forum and there are definitely players like me who are very interested in your solution

Some people think they are right eye dominant and some think they are left. They might have ocular vision.

The standard way too find the dominant eye doesn't work so there are many players out there that just think they are a certain eye dominance.

But it doesn't make any difference if they don't know what to do with it, knowing one way or the other.

But just throwing some info out here for someone that thinks they are one way but the other would really be a mess for them and anyone they were trying to explain how it is for them/

I got players all the time that have played for years thinking they were like right eyed and come down on the shot and they are right under the left eye.

They swear they are right eye dominant and then they start pointing and showing me how they do the dummy test to find their dominant eye.

After I show them that they are the other eye dominant and they can totally see it for themselves they agree that it's the dummy test.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I base my info on 2,000 plus lessons seeing the same thing over and over and helping players fix the problem.

Just wondering if you teach and had some basis on your thoughts?

Yes I do teach. Noobs in my periphery always seek my advice. And my take on eye dominance being THE central issue is derived from the best example I can quote: me.

Consider all the linkage from the floor to your fingertips and plus now having to cock your head or specifically crane your neck just to make sure you SEE the tip of your cue true - or whatever it is you recommend looking at.
Only tall people can manage the contortions without stress. They even manage to look relaxed and unstressed.

I spend my time working instead on the actual physics of shotmaking; hitting what I'm looking at; not the inverse.
 
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