The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The life I enjoy..On the road again...with Perfect Aim..

You will be traveling again???

Yes. I plan on it. It this pandemic ever levels off.

Right now the results with what i teach are off the charts.

I don't know if anyone noticed but everyone that I teach gets very positive results. None of this ,,,,,It doesn't work for me...........

Too bad there is so much stuff that is just no good. That people figured out in their recliner or in their local pool hall playing a couple hours a week.

I need to get to more players. This will help make pool greater at the local level. This is how I built my business when I had a pool room in the 90's.

I am doing it in some of the pool halls here right now. The players that I am working with are now playing more than ever. Where do they play?

Exactly!!!!!! Their local pool room. They are playing in most of the local weekly tournaments and having more fun than ever before.

Totally addicted now.

I didn't tell the room owners here what I am doing because they might not think what I am doing will help much but I see it every single day. It's like my own pool family that was created by making them better players.

I can't wait to get back out on the road and create this magic from pool room to pool room.

On the road again with Perfect Aim.......:thumbup:
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perfect shoot involves so many things....

It doesn't work without perfect shoot.

I get what your saying but the same can be said with so many parts of the game.

. Perfect stance, Perfect approach and perfect preshot, perfect eye patterns.

None of this is consistently possible without starting and following the eyes.

Like players that are opposite eye dominant, some of them are never even getting close to having the eyes right. Lucky to hit the ball. They have no chance to develope a straight stroke because the eyes are so far off. They can't tell what straight is.

If a player is looking at the cue ball when they shoot, hold that stance for about 30 seconds only looking at the cue ball and then shoot the results are a disaster. Without looking at the target a player cannot hold the line. The eyes need to be there and they need to be right.

If the eyes are not right a player has nothing to get them there.

We could go on like this for hours. My dad can beat up your dad.

I'm trying to help players with years of proven information putting my heart and soul into it.

The results speak for themselves.

Give me 10 players that have the most crooked stroke in the world that can't make a ball hardly and I'll show you 10 players that have the eyes so far off that they don't have a chance. The strokes cannot be fixed because they can't even see what is straight.

In 15 minutes i can have these players on the way to having a straight stroke with a little instruction on stance and a few others things by getting the eyes correct. if they can't see what is a straight line the stroke is all over the place.

The better the player all the way up to the pros, the eye lineup can be off to a lesser degree.

But fixing the eyes at any level can cut anyones misses in half almost immediately.

Just as simple as that.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If a player is looking at the cue ball when they shoot, hold that stance for about 30 seconds only looking at the cue ball and then shoot the results are a disaster. Without looking at the target a player cannot hold the line. The eyes need to be there and they need to be right.

Geno,

Are you saying that with your system you must - MUST - look at the OB last for it to work?

r/DCP
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@ Geno M
I use double vision instead. Not only does it allow more congruent spinal alignment (with the stick) than cocking or craning to accommodate stereo distortion, the twin sticks form a very good centering template.

@ DCP
GA/GM essentially says the opposite. FWIW I look at the cue ball last. I find it's not that critical on softly stroked ducks but as force/accuracy requirements increase, so do the requirements of the stick to cue ball connection.

Yes it is a leap of faith thing. So is everything else about shooting pool.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't invent this eye pattern thing...

Geno,

Are you saying that with your system you must - MUST - look at the OB last for it to work?

r/DCP

Eye patterns are so important when a player is aiming a shot.

Some of the people that say they look at the cue ball last are actually looking at the cue ball last. As they are starting their stroke to go back slowly they are looking up at the object ball. They are actually looking at the target, the OB, as they are stroke forward.

I didn't invent this. It's been going on for years. The players that do it right and have the proper eye patterns can get to playing at a higher level. the ones that don't don't. it's as simple as that.

If someone stares at the cue ball all the time they are shooting at the OB ball they can come and get all my money and I don't care who they are. Come and get you some. I'll keep playing until I'm broke.

I used to play with a guy that owned a bar years ago. We would play 8 ball for $100 per game. Once a week I would go there to play.

Once we had the shot aimed the other player would put a big piece of cardboard up so the player could only see the cue ball. We'd usually play 3 to 5 games. I'd usually win $100 or $200. it was tough. i was the much better player but this was a great equalizer for sure.

Anyone that says they look at the cue ball last when they shoot can come here and we will put the cardboard up and they can try to beat the ghost. It would be stealing.

Watch a bunch of pro players on Utube. Blow it up so you can watch their eyes. You will see that they all are looking at the object ball when they pull the trigger.

:rolleyes:
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Once we had the shot aimed the other player would put a big piece of cardboard up so the player could only see the cue ball.

I assume you are trying to say the player would miss the shot, right?

But what would happen if you put up a big piece of cardboard where ALL the player could see would be the OB?

r/DCP
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
Eye patterns are so important when a player is aiming a shot.

Some of the people that say they look at the cue ball last are actually looking at the cue ball last. As they are starting their stroke to go back slowly they are looking up at the object ball. They are actually looking at the target, the OB, as they are stroke forward.

I didn't invent this. It's been going on for years. The players that do it right and have the proper eye patterns can get to playing at a higher level. the ones that don't don't. it's as simple as that.

If someone stares at the cue ball all the time they are shooting at the OB ball they can come and get all my money and I don't care who they are. Come and get you some. I'll keep playing until I'm broke.

I used to play with a guy that owned a bar years ago. We would play 8 ball for $100 per game. Once a week I would go there to play.

Once we had the shot aimed the other player would put a big piece of cardboard up so the player could only see the cue ball. We'd usually play 3 to 5 games. I'd usually win $100 or $200. it was tough. i was the much better player but this was a great equalizer for sure.

Anyone that says they look at the cue ball last when they shoot can come here and we will put the cardboard up and they can try to beat the ghost. It would be stealing.

Watch a bunch of pro players on Utube. Blow it up so you can watch their eyes. You will see that they all are looking at the object ball when they pull the trigger.

:rolleyes:

Exactly Geno. I played a guy once in a pool hall when I was out of town. I noticed he was watching the cue ball when he shot. Did he makes balls? Yep. But he was what I call a half table player. If the object ball and cb were on the same side of the table he’d make it but longer shots he had no chance. So, my safeties only had to be distance which made it easy.... of course distance with obstacle and he was completely lost.

Your hands follow you eyes, ask any golfer or baseball player, they will tell you the same thing ;)
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I look at the cue ball before shooting the shot.

If someone stares at the cue ball all the time they are shooting at the OB ball they can come and get all my money and I don't care who they are. Come and get you some. I'll keep playing until I'm broke...

... Anyone that says they look at the cue ball last when they shoot can come here and we will put the cardboard up and they can try to beat the ghost. It would be stealing.

Watch a bunch of pro players on Utube. Blow it up so you can watch their eyes. You will see that they all are looking at the object ball when they pull the trigger.

:rolleyes:

What's money got to do with technique? How does your way invalidate anything else?

I watch you tube matches and as much as I love pool, the game - and sports in general is nothing but a comedy of errors; good for wagering, not particularly good for its evolution. When the world class stops missing, I'll reassess the validity of common practices.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
What's money got to do with technique? How does your way invalidate anything else?

I watch you tube matches and as much as I love pool, the game - and sports in general is nothing but a comedy of errors; good for wagering, not particularly good for its evolution. When the world class stops missing, I'll reassess the validity of common practices.

Money is what we spend looking for some magic technique, Cue, Chalk too be better. If money could produce champions.

I could got to PGA Golf Store, buy the exact same stuff the Great Tiger Wood use, and be as great as Tiger. I could spend my life on the SR. PGA Tour making mega bucks.

Many years ago I was at the home of an Olympic Swimmer, my mission was a story about this family. Dad was a Dentist in Northern California. His daughter had made the US Team and would be in Barcellano, Spain for the 1992 Games.

It was expected she would be a female Mark Spitz who won many Golds in Berlin years before.

I asked the father how hard was it for his daughter to make the team? He went throught all she did from early childhood, from AM & PM practices, travel to and for competition, etc. Cost was a huge investment.

Botton line was it was years of work training, the best coaches, time, no life outside the pool, except runnig, weight training, school, eating right, and sleep. Plus she did everything humanially possible to be the best, never had much of a life outside swimming.

Story was killed, it never ran. She did not get all Golds. Yes she did OK, but the story was she was to be the Female Mark Spitz.

Point is she was a great swimmer, did make the Olympic team, do get some Medals, but too some was not the next greatest swimmer.

I would bet 10,000 other little girls today have the same dream, of being on a US Olympic Team, competing in a Sport of their choice in the Olympics.

Few will ever make it, but many try, it's hard to be best at anything. If that is your desire, too be a great pool play, it better be your life as many day of the years you can work on that dream.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would bet 10,000 other little girls today have the same dream, of being on a US Olympic Team, competing in a Sport of their choice in the Olympics.

Few will ever make it, but many try, it's hard to be best at anything. If that is your desire, too be a great pool play, it better be your life as many day of the years you can work on that dream.

So true. Good thing I'm to old for it to matter. I just keep chipping away at the consistency barrier.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would be much better for sure..

I assume you are trying to say the player would miss the shot, right?

But what would happen if you put up a big piece of cardboard where ALL the player could see would be the OB?

r/DCP

Take your cue and pretend it is a spear. Go thru the motions of throwing it at an object . Or object ball. See the connection here?

Did you ever look at the spear while throwing it?

No. Because if you did you couldn't hit what you were throwing it if you were looking at the spear.

With a pool shot we are just throwing the spear underhand.

When we come down from the preshot it works the best to look at the Object ball.

Once down we can look at the cue ball to make sure that we are in the right position to get the shape we want.

Look back up at object ball to make sure we are lined up still on the target. The key here is the target.

The cue ball is not the target. The object ball is.

When we are looking at the cue ball we are actually going cross-eyed. So it is actually not a good idea to stare at it too long. Get back up to the object ball.

Now this next part I never knew what was the best way to do until I got knocked out of some of the big tournaments I played in. I would watch the best players and some of the other pros. I would break this part of the game down and only watch this part. I even got out the binoculars so I could see the eye patterns.

This part was mostly the same with all the best players.

They would look one last time at the cue ball to reassure their brain that they were in the correct spot. Then just before they started on the slow back stroke they would look up at the object ball.

Again looking at the target.

This is what I saw. It just solidified what I already thought and made it very clear to me that this must be the best way.

Players or teachers that are teaching to look at the cue ball when shooting at the object ball are way off track.

I don't just think this is wrong but I know it is wrong.

I take huge pride in not teaching players things that don't work.

Looking at the cue ball when you shoot is just as wrong as trying to tell everyone they need the square wheels on the car that they are using?

I say go ahead and use those square wheels if you want.

Good luck with that. :thumbup:
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i will do 100+ runs on 14.1 and 147s in snooker with my square wheels. Also I believe Finnish Kaisa billiards takes a little accuracy to make a ball. Any ball actually. There is a lot more for aiming then to look OB last. I look different places depending what kind shot I have. I feel I still improve and my students keep winning tourneys even many of they started to play 40+..
I don´t wanna bash your teachings because i don´t know what is whole concept but i don´t like calling others methods crap that does not work.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
So true. Good thing I'm to old for it to matter. I just keep chipping away at the consistency barrier.

Well my years of the opportunity to be great are in my rear view mirror, young people have more energy, more flexible, and last have youth on their side. These kids do not burn out after 3 or 4 hour of play. It because they are younger.

Remember part of my work involved covering some PGA, and Senior PGA Golf Events.

I enjoy the Seniors more, as most still could play well, but their best years were behind them.

They were still out their competing, playing well, and last have fun.

Remember Sam Sneed coming to one Senior PGA Event, the man could walk fast, he was like some Golf playing machine. Well past 70, but still a great Golf ambassador.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Take your cue and pretend it is a spear. Go thru the motions of throwing it at an object . Or object ball. See the connection here?

Did you ever look at the spear while throwing it?

No. Because if you did you couldn't hit what you were throwing it if you were looking at the spear.

With a pool shot we are just throwing the spear underhand.

When we come down from the preshot it works the best to look at the Object ball.

Once down we can look at the cue ball to make sure that we are in the right position to get the shape we want.

Look back up at object ball to make sure we are lined up still on the target. The key here is the target.

The cue ball is not the target. The object ball is.

When we are looking at the cue ball we are actually going cross-eyed. So it is actually not a good idea to stare at it too long. Get back up to the object ball.

Now this next part I never knew what was the best way to do until I got knocked out of some of the big tournaments I played in. I would watch the best players and some of the other pros. I would break this part of the game down and only watch this part. I even got out the binoculars so I could see the eye patterns.

This part was mostly the same with all the best players.

They would look one last time at the cue ball to reassure their brain that they were in the correct spot. Then just before they started on the slow back stroke they would look up at the object ball.

Again looking at the target.

This is what I saw. It just solidified what I already thought and made it very clear to me that this must be the best way.

Players or teachers that are teaching to look at the cue ball when shooting at the object ball are way off track.

I don't just think this is wrong but I know it is wrong.

I take huge pride in not teaching players things that don't work.

Looking at the cue ball when you shoot is just as wrong as trying to tell everyone they need the square wheels on the car that they are using?

I say go ahead and use those square wheels if you want.

Good luck with that. :thumbup:

Gene,

Your comparisons are like everything and everyone's else. You cannot - CANNOT - compare throwing a spear to hitting a pool shot. You CANNOT compare shooting a free throw to hitting a pool shot. You CANNOT compare anything to hitting a pool shot. ITS APPLES TO ORANGES!!!

And I must also disagree when you say the OB is the target. The target is that specific point on the CB where you want to hit with the tip of your cue. That OB isnt going anywhere - the CB is.

Now, having said all of this, I have tried 10,000 times over the years to look at the OB last. Cant do it. Miss a mile. I am CB last all the way.

Now, having said that, I am going down to the table and work on looking at the OB last. But I know what I will find out - that it doesnt work for me.

And when people say "The cue goes where the eyes go".....all I can say is that anyone that believes that needs their head examined.

r/DCP
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Take your cue and pretend it is a spear. Go thru the motions of throwing it at an object . Or object ball. See the connection here?

Did you ever look at the spear while throwing it?

No. Because if you did you couldn't hit what you were throwing it if you were looking at the spear.

With a pool shot we are just throwing the spear underhand.

When we come down from the preshot it works the best to look at the Object ball.

Once down we can look at the cue ball to make sure that we are in the right position to get the shape we want.

Look back up at object ball to make sure we are lined up still on the target. The key here is the target.

The cue ball is not the target. The object ball is.

When we are looking at the cue ball we are actually going cross-eyed. So it is actually not a good idea to stare at it too long. Get back up to the object ball.

Now this next part I never knew what was the best way to do until I got knocked out of some of the big tournaments I played in. I would watch the best players and some of the other pros. I would break this part of the game down and only watch this part. I even got out the binoculars so I could see the eye patterns.

This part was mostly the same with all the best players.

They would look one last time at the cue ball to reassure their brain that they were in the correct spot. Then just before they started on the slow back stroke they would look up at the object ball.

Again looking at the target.

This is what I saw. It just solidified what I already thought and made it very clear to me that this must be the best way.

Players or teachers that are teaching to look at the cue ball when shooting at the object ball are way off track.

I don't just think this is wrong but I know it is wrong.

I take huge pride in not teaching players things that don't work.

Looking at the cue ball when you shoot is just as wrong as trying to tell everyone they need the square wheels on the car that they are using?

I say go ahead and use those square wheels if you want.

Good luck with that. :thumbup:

I don't think the spear analogy is fair
a spear's tip is connected to its body
so we don't have to look at the spear
we can trust the spear as whole
look at the target, near or far
and thrust

in pool, the cue ball is our spear's tip
but obviously it is not attached to our cue
so we must take more care with our spear
and measure more carefully
before we thrust

in other words
before we even get to the object ball
the cue ball is the target
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just try this.....

I don't think the spear analogy is fair
a spear's tip is connected to its body
so we don't have to look at the spear
we can trust the spear as whole
look at the target, near or far
and thrust

in pool, the cue ball is our spear's tip
but obviously it is not attached to our cue
so we must take more care with our spear
and measure more carefully
before we thrust

in other words
before we even get to the object ball
the cue ball is the target

Set up a straight in shot. Come down on the shot with just the eyes but holding the stick so you can bring it over after your there .

We can get there without the cue. All we need is the cue to be in the right position for the shot. Deflection, right of left English, Draw.

Throwing the spear underhand we can be pretty accurate.

You said it yourself, The cue ball becomes part of the spear when we make contact.

The object ball becomes the target still and always.

Just come sown on the shot looking at the object ball only. You get right there on the shot.

Look at the cue ball on the way down and you still have to find the shot.

These things are not debatable when I give a lesson. As soon as the player sees with their own eye the results and how much easier it is it's a done deal.

Until a player tries these things and sees how well they work they can't imagine how much better it works.

15 minutes on the table and you would willingly agree with the points I make.

But on the internet sitting in the chair all we know is what know. We don't know what we don't know until we try it and see what we didn't know. :thumbup:
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Personally, I look at the cue ball to set the tip position, then focus on the OB, but "feel" where the CB is going during pre strokes and let my body make minute adjustments on tip position. You feel the shot, if it feels off, get up and redo your pre shot routine. If you have hand eye coordination, you know where the CB is and it sure the heck isn't moving anywhere, so why look at it? As toddlers we learned about object permanence and peek a boo didn't work anymore. You don't have to see the tip contact on the shot to know what english is being applied. Feel it, trust your body. We're predators and that's how our vision works. Practice shooting a recurve bow for a few months, you aren't looking at the tip of the arrow or a sight (heck a recurve doesn't have one), you're looking at the target. Now you might have to practice until your body know how to hit the target, but once you have that, you have it. You shoot by feel and you will be utterly surprised at how consistent it is with no sights, differing conditions, ranges, etc.

If you know the table dimensions you don't even have to look at the pocket during the routine unless it's a really touchy shot. It's probably odd, but on cuts I just know in my head, ok, I have 3/4 of the table to move this OB 4" to go into the pocket and let my body do the work as I look at the OB. My practice strokes are feeling where/what the CB will go/do. I don't necessarily even care where the tip is on the CB because I know where it was at the start and let my subconscious adjust as it needed to get the leave. I just let my body do what it does. If you start at the center of the CB when going down on the shot, you can adjust spin without looking at it if you have the spatial awareness, or you can put the tip where you want it to begin.

It's hard to describe but I look at the OB for the aim but I don't even care a little bit what it does, only that it goes the 4" over the length of the table and into the pocket. Pre shot was to make sure nothing else was in the way. I've did wagon wheel drills and similar, but when it gets down to it, you just have to get a feel for the cue ball, it's basically spinning marbles on the floor when you were a kid. Even the old wagon wheel book tells you aim 1/8" above center, 3/32 below center etc. Nobody has time for that slide rule jazz on every shot, get an idea where to hit from the reference book and get the feel on the CB in practice. You don't have to look at the tip during the shot to know where it's at. Practice until you get all the results of the drill consistently then move on.

On straight in shots I look at the OB but I also let the pocket serve as a reference, kind of in the background, the target on the OB is what matters. I might even glance between the OB and pocket a few times but when I pull the trigger, I'm looking at the OB

If this is a wrong thought process I welcome advice but I've not had a lot of issue with it. I'm always willing to learn and I'll admit, I have no idea if my way is correct, but it works for me. I'm more a spatial awareness/feel guy than a formula guy.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I can't figure out how to edit, but while getting down on a shot, I am looking at the OB, I only look at the cue ball to set tip position after I'm down and in line.
 
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