The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
My last billiards purchase other than collectables, was $4 for a box of chalk about 12 years ago.

Somehow I’ve done well without paying 2 cents for videos, must-have do-dads, magic cues, techno-babble lessons, space age Cue tips, etc.

There must be a thousand free lessons on YouTube from some of the top Players and instructors. However, tomorrow another ‘New and Improved’ method will ‘be revealed’ to hit a 2.25 Inch ball with A stick into a whole twice the size.
Just imagine, if you were to buy a revo and some finger extensions, you would be on team USA this year! :p
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Calculated Trial and Error is somewhat of a myth too. Nobody can explain it either.

Well your calculated trail and error is how the caveman leaned not to try dumb thingEven they observed out cavemen get killed over.

Even experts at some simple task like flying a jet aircraft, because when your muscle memory don't kick in, you could died from not reacting to a mechinal failure fast enought.

Trail and Efford do work work if you have all the time in world to keep the pocess going.
 

Mustardeer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Garbage player = doesn’t mind losing + practices shots he already knows instead of working on weaknesses + spends $100/month on table time + mostly plays his garbage buddies for 5 dollars + constantly enters pool tournaments even though his cue ball control is awful + uses left brain at times when right brain is required + has a few stroke problems that will always hold him back no matter what ( e.g. grip tension, swing thoughts while down, etc ) + too lazy to play correct patterns + generally ok with where he’s at in the pool world but hopes he’ll get better.

champion = absolutely hates to lose ( #1 must have quality ), has made a decision to master the game and set a goal in writing + spends $2k+ a month on table time or owns a 9’ table + obsessed with cb control and can consistently hit an exact point on a rail from anywhere + spends hours and hours just working on a break + enjoys improving more than competing itself + never satisfied with where he’s at and can’t wait to get better + has access to strong players and is always in action...
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Garbage player = doesn’t mind losing + practices shots he already knows instead of working on weaknesses + spends $100/month on table time + mostly plays his garbage buddies for 5 dollars + constantly enters pool tournaments even though his cue ball control is awful + uses left brain at times when right brain is required + has a few stroke problems that will always hold him back no matter what ( e.g. grip tension, swing thoughts while down, etc ) + too lazy to play correct patterns + generally ok with where he’s at in the pool world but hopes he’ll get better.

champion = absolutely hates to lose ( #1 must have quality ), has made a decision to master the game and set a goal in writing + spends $2k+ a month on table time or owns a 9’ table + obsessed with cb control and can consistently hit an exact point on a rail from anywhere + spends hours and hours just working on a break + enjoys improving more than competing itself + never satisfied with where he’s at and can’t wait to get better + has access to strong players and is always in action...
Point being? Incidentally, either of those types ever master anything?
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Garbage player = doesn’t mind losing + practices shots he already knows instead of working on weaknesses + spends $100/month on table time + mostly plays his garbage buddies for 5 dollars + constantly enters pool tournaments even though his cue ball control is awful + uses left brain at times when right brain is required + has a few stroke problems that will always hold him back no matter what ( e.g. grip tension, swing thoughts while down, etc ) + too lazy to play correct patterns + generally ok with where he’s at in the pool world but hopes he’ll get better.

champion = absolutely hates to lose ( #1 must have quality ), has made a decision to master the game and set a goal in writing + spends $2k+ a month on table time or owns a 9’ table + obsessed with cb control and can consistently hit an exact point on a rail from anywhere + spends hours and hours just working on a break + enjoys improving more than competing itself + never satisfied with where he’s at and can’t wait to get better + has access to strong players and is always in action...


Well everything you say above is very true, and hope someone apprieciate they just got real truth. Problem is people hate truth.

It's like become a Navy SEAL, many want, few have what it take to finish the training, put up with the harassment, cold, lack of food, lack of sleep, etc. Just got to give the want if you want 110% effort.
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
You know what I find funny Geno has been doing his "perfect aiming thing" for over 10 years, not one word in some Pool Magazine about his holy grail system, wonder why?
So, that is the "official" method to determine good instruction or anything else, if it's in a national pool magazine that has a circulation to a few thousand. I'm not knocking them at all, I've been a monthly subscriber to BD for over 20 years. Heck, I think I sell the best chalk on the planet, and thousands of customers, including many pros, have told me so. But, guess what, not one article in BD? Should I just pack it in and call it a day. And many instructors could promote themselves with an article of two once in awhile at BD, but some don't want to, and some are not writers. But, by all means, keep letting us know about your expertise in all matters involving pool, cause I don't recall your name ever been mentioned, not in once, in BD ? Hmmmmmm.
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
Garbage player = doesn’t mind losing + practices shots he already knows instead of working on weaknesses + spends $100/month on table time + mostly plays his garbage buddies for 5 dollars + constantly enters pool tournaments even though his cue ball control is awful + uses left brain at times when right brain is required + has a few stroke problems that will always hold him back no matter what ( e.g. grip tension, swing thoughts while down, etc ) + too lazy to play correct patterns + generally ok with where he’s at in the pool world but hopes he’ll get better.

champion = absolutely hates to lose ( #1 must have quality ), has made a decision to master the game and set a goal in writing + spends $2k+ a month on table time or owns a 9’ table + obsessed with cb control and can consistently hit an exact point on a rail from anywhere + spends hours and hours just working on a break + enjoys improving more than competing itself + never satisfied with where he’s at and can’t wait to get better + has access to strong players and is always in action...
It's a good post, but "garbage" is a little harsh. Can't folks just have a hobby without wanting to be SVB? Most league players want a night out and have some fun. Some want to get better for pride and to win more matches at league and beat their buddies. But, with most league players having full time jobs and full time families, its going to be hard to be really really good at this game. But, they can improve and it's not all about practice. A bad stoke is a bad stroke and you will hit a wall and never get better. I've known league players that still shoot the same today as 10 years ago. Oh, they are a little smarter in shot selection, and a little better in cb control, but eventually, with a poor stroke or bad eye alignment they will only get so far. That's a fact of life.

No, if someone wants to gamble and just let an APA 3 knock balls around for 50 hours and the other APA 3 takes 15 hours of training with Geno or someone else, I'll bet on the instructor every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Garbage player = doesn’t mind losing + practices shots he already knows instead of working on weaknesses + spends $100/month on table time + mostly plays his garbage buddies for 5 dollars + constantly enters pool tournaments even though his cue ball control is awful + uses left brain at times when right brain is required + has a few stroke problems that will always hold him back no matter what ( e.g. grip tension, swing thoughts while down, etc ) + too lazy to play correct patterns + generally ok with where he’s at in the pool world but hopes he’ll get better.

champion = absolutely hates to lose ( #1 must have quality ), has made a decision to master the game and set a goal in writing + spends $2k+ a month on table time or owns a 9’ table + obsessed with cb control and can consistently hit an exact point on a rail from anywhere + spends hours and hours just working on a break + enjoys improving more than competing itself + never satisfied with where he’s at and can’t wait to get better + has access to strong players and is always in action...
Left it for last,”has access to strong players”. It’s the most important factor. Not everyone has that access, and for some, it’s not even possible. Gene is offering that access, at least in some form.
 

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To the few people posting negatively in this thread, how do you perceive your role here? Protecting the innocent AZ noobs from the big bad Geno? If so, that is laughable. Anyone perusing this site, is interested in billiards. They are capable of deciding for themselves, what has value, for them. Do you believe you are more knowledgeable then Gene, on the original topic? That is also laughable. As for the DVD, give it a rest. Has Gene even mentioned it in this thread, or offered it for sale? He's offering in person, and skyp lessons, not trying to sell DVD. Earlier in this thread, Gene stated that his knowledge on this topic, has evolved, and he's learned new ways to teach it. I traveled 2 and a half hours, to meet with Gene. Spent about 7 hours at the table. Some of what Gene was trying to teach me, was over my head, some I've forgotten. What I retained, was well worth the time, effort, and money. In the past several months, I have jumped levels, and consistently beat people that previously, I could occasionally snatch a rack from. I posted here, after that session. IIRC, I said anyone, no matter what level, could learn something about pool, from Gene. I can't understand why anyone would try and prevent someone from exploring this particular path, to improvement. Those that do, expose themselves as narrow minded, at best.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess there's not much difference between what Geno is promoting here on AZB compared to what the SPF/PBIA instructors promote with the drills they refer to as the Mother Drills. I suppose its up to each individual to determine if Perfect Aim or the Mother Drills have any positive benefit to them.

r/DCP
 

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess there's not much difference between what Geno is promoting here on AZB compared to what the SPF/PBIA instructors promote with the drills they refer to as the Mother Drills. I suppose its up to each individual to determine if Perfect Aim or the Mother Drills have any positive benefit to them.

r/DCP
It is counterproductive and inaccurate, to guess. It’s already been established, in this thread. What Gene does, has value. Established by players of several different skill levels. Including at least one, very high level player. If I had a qualified instructor, anywhere near me, I would take advantage of that opportunity. Not an option, in my area. I shoot “over my head” every chance I get. I learn from other players, as much as I can. It’s not the same as table time, with a high level player, Who is totally invested in improving your game.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
It is counterproductive and inaccurate, to guess. It’s already been established, in this thread. What Gene does, has value. Established by players of several different skill levels. Including at least one, very high level player. If I had a qualified instructor, anywhere near me, I would take advantage of that opportunity. Not an option, in my area. I shoot “over my head” every chance I get. I learn from other players, as much as I can. It’s not the same as table time, with a high level player, Who is totally invested in improving your game.


Well like I said I got to watch the Perfect Aiming - DVD Gene was selling, it did not rock my boat. I am happy Fast Larry sent it to me for my feedback, like I said I watched it 3 or 4 time looking for a gold nugget, sent it back to Larry. No gold nugget found

Remember everyone has opinion about things, it all good. I know people who love KFC, personally I like Popeye Chicken better. IMHO.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
So, that is the "official" method to determine good instruction or anything else, if it's in a national pool magazine that has a circulation to a few thousand. I'm not knocking them at all, I've been a monthly subscriber to BD for over 20 years. Heck, I think I sell the best chalk on the planet, and thousands of customers, including many pros, have told me so. But, guess what, not one article in BD? Should I just pack it in and call it a day. And many instructors could promote themselves with an article of two once in awhile at BD, but some don't want to, and some are not writers. But, by all means, keep letting us know about your expertise in all matters involving pool, cause I don't recall your name ever been mentioned, not in once, in BD ? Hmmmmmm.


Well if you want to be written up in BD have you bought advertising from them to sell your chalk to their 2000 subscribers?

If they are like Cigar Aficionado Magazine, let sy they seem to favor doing editorials about the people who by ad space. When they CA list their Top Cigar of year, it always seem to be one of the companies who spend big buck for full page ads all year long.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To the few people posting negatively in this thread, how do you perceive your role here?
The rest of your post is customer service funneling at best. Geno, personable player and all is still on "sell this turkey". I sympathize but when all the info he has divulged is in the thread title, I am compelled to ask WTF? Ok. Spam. My fault for participating but since It's always here I'll keep asking and adding peripheral insight to the only topic being discussed - WTF Pool in fact is.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was lucky, right handed, right eye dominant. Maybe after seeing something from you or someone posting a snooker eye dominance video when I first started playing 7 years ago, helped me to realize I needed my cue slightly to the right of my chin, as opposed to right under the middle of my chin as I thought would be best.

I do agree, sighting right is important, as wells a solid repeatable stance and stroke and bridge. However after starting as a 3 and within 2 years of playing one night a week in league moving to a 7, I think most people don’t get better because they don’t want to put in any extra work to get better. I am Uber competitive. I didn’t want to stay a 3, yet people in my league had been 3s for 10+ years because they make the same mistakes over and over. Don’t learn any basic cue ball control. Don’t understand the difference between a sliding cue ball and rolling cue ball, etc...
Sounds like you improved at a quick pace. Being right handed and right eye dominant helped you get the eyes close to perfect and sometimes perfect naturally. Plus you are probably more coordinated than most players.

Just move the cue under the left eye and try to shoot some shots. Get it way over and it will look real bad. This is what these opposite eyed players are dealing with. You can't even make the ball let alone try to play any kind of shape.

Once these players learn how to get the eyes there the improvements are off the charts. Are they a champion now? Not hardly.

First they start making balls and the next thing you know they are trying to play some kind of shape on the next shot.

Something that seemed impossible before.
 

drv4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like you improved at a quick pace. Being right handed and right eye dominant helped you get the eyes close to perfect and sometimes perfect naturally. Plus you are probably more coordinated than most players.

Just move the cue under the left eye and try to shoot some shots. Get it way over and it will look real bad. This is what these opposite eyed players are dealing with. You can't even make the ball let alone try to play any kind of shape.

Once these players learn how to get the eyes there the improvements are off the charts. Are they a champion now? Not hardly.

First they start making balls and the next thing you know they are trying to play some kind of shape on the next shot.

Something that seemed impossible before.
I get what your saying. When I shoot shots left handed because I don’t want to get the bridge I have to move my head way over to get my sighting correct. I see why John Morra had to switch to playing left handed because it hurts my neck to get in that position.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now if you were 67 years old, recently had your neck fused you could really see how difficult it is being opposite eye dominant. It can be overcome. But it has to manually start in the preshot and we have to put all the pieces together on the way down.

Players that already play at a pretty high level take a quick jump right away because they can fit it into everything they already do.

The lower level player now can start working on everything that seemed magical before because they can see what is happening. .

Thanks for the great input here.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Players that already play at a pretty high level take a quick jump right away because they can fit it into everything they already do.

The lower level player now can start working on everything that seemed magical before because they can see what is happening. .
This is what I like so much about the system. It doesn't negate the knowledge and experience you already have if you do indeed already have knowledge/experience at pool. It fits in well with the data your subconscious mind and hand eye coordination has already collected. You still have the same eyes, but the system teaches you when to trust them, and how to get them to be trustworthy. Once you see it, you see it.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is what I’m experiencing. The reliability of the alignment and confidence that brings is bringing up position play accuracy and even how I see patterns.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some people just never get it. I think some people are just not 'wired' to see the relationship(s) of colliding spheres.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
Top