Has anybody here on AZ read or been taught a kicking system called the box system, and if so please give some details and opinions please. I'm like most players always looking into different kicking or banking systems.--Leonard
The Box kicking system
- Thread starter poolcuemaster
- Start date
monday bumpage
Let me begin by saying I use the diamonds to point to a "spot on the wall" to kick at balls - and I roll my tip to make a small adjustment to give yourself the chance to make it (thanks RonV).
When I read this post, it reminds me of the way I kick when picking a spot on the wall is really hard. I've always done this and no one really taught it to me. Your description of box-kicking sounds like what I do. This may not be what you're looking for, but it's effective.
Regardless of the CB position, it's a corner of your box. The other corner of the box and the center of your box is the rebound line. Your OB is the 3rd point (also must be on this line).
I find this is a really fast way to find the hit.
Hope this helps - it's won me a lot of games.
Dave
I've watched Grady's tape "Just Kicks" about 3 times. He spoke of the spot on the wall and I never did figure out just what he meant and how he implemented the concept. I would like to refresh my memory but I have returned the tape to its owner. I'll check to see if it's available on dvd.
Dave Nelson
Dave Nelson
I was showed a two rail kicking system which they called it boxing out
the corner .All you do is use the corner pocket to divide the cb and
ob evenly.Put your cue in between ob and cb and the tip of your cue
will be facing the back of the pocket.The gap on both sides of the cue
should be the same.Then a parallel line is used to shoot the cb into the
rail going two rails and hiting the ob.Some ajustments have to be made
for different tables.Dr Cue also shows this system on one video,s.
the corner .All you do is use the corner pocket to divide the cb and
ob evenly.Put your cue in between ob and cb and the tip of your cue
will be facing the back of the pocket.The gap on both sides of the cue
should be the same.Then a parallel line is used to shoot the cb into the
rail going two rails and hiting the ob.Some ajustments have to be made
for different tables.Dr Cue also shows this system on one video,s.
Opps sorry I thought you said Kick Boxing
Thanks guys I enjoy kicking and it's alot more fun if you make good hits, anyone else ?--Leonard
poolcuemaster said:
Obviously, I don't know how to use CueTable, but maybe you can make sense of this.
The dimensions of the box are determined by the location of the cb and the ball your kicking at. The intersection of lines made from those balls to the opposite corners of the box determines the target on the rail. I couldn't figure out how to draw the line from the intersection to the rail, but the kicking line (blue) travels to that point. This is basically the Hoppe system.
How about a bump for more info from Mr Helfert or Mr Jewett.--Leonard
I think the Helfert box kicking system would go something like this:poolcuemaster said:
- Pick the appropriate sized box
- place box on ground
- line up kick
- swing foot in direction of box
- follow through
:grin-square: :grin: :grin-square: :wink:
I've never heard of a kicking system called the box system. It seems to me that the "make-a-rectangle" system shown above could fit the name. I've taught that system for simple one-rail kicks.poolcuemaster said:
I don't like the "draw two diagonals and see where they intersect and drop a perpendicular" system because I think it is touchy on too many shots. It's shown in Mosconi's second book.
There are many equivalent ways to draw out the result of the mirror system calculation. Unless you get the spin on the cue ball right, all of them are wrong.
I prefer to just eye-ball one-rail kicks... and then focus on cue ball contact point (left? right? center?... and how much if off center)... and lastly, focus on putting a nice smooth stroke on whitey and follow through. With that approach I hit most all of the ones that I try on my 9-ft. Pro Am... even the ones where I'm long to the short rail and long again back to the OB... those are the most difficult, especially when the OB is not near a side rail.
FYI, you can find some info on the spot-on-the-wall system here:Dave Nelson said:
I hope that helps,
Dave
supergreenman said:I think the Helfert box kicking system would go something like this:
- Pick the appropriate sized box
- place box on ground
- line up kick
- swing foot in direction of box
- follow through
:grin-square: :grin: :grin-square: :wink:
I hear this system is way deadlier when you include a pivot at the hip. :shocked2:
here is a simple theory for KICKING. It is all about geometry.. see attachment
The table is mirrored about the center of a ball on the rail. Try to Visualize a ball on the other side of this line & shoot it in the hole. You will have modify your aim for speed & any spin you apply to the Cue ball.. Good Luck
The table is mirrored about the center of a ball on the rail. Try to Visualize a ball on the other side of this line & shoot it in the hole. You will have modify your aim for speed & any spin you apply to the Cue ball.. Good Luck
Attachments
Last edited:
Bob May's One Rail Kicking System
I blogged about Bob's system shortly after he showed it to me. I've heard of similar systems but I believe Bob stumbled on this himself even if others have too. It's really helped me, but, as with all shots, you have to practice with it since even a tad of english will alter the angles. There's no box involved here.
Bob May's One-Rail Kicking System.
I blogged about Bob's system shortly after he showed it to me. I've heard of similar systems but I believe Bob stumbled on this himself even if others have too. It's really helped me, but, as with all shots, you have to practice with it since even a tad of english will alter the angles. There's no box involved here.
Bob May's One-Rail Kicking System.
Without english, the angle that you give the rail will be the angle that you receive (for example, 30 deg into the rail will give 30 deg out). Follow that throughout the table and you have the diamond system.
Veer away from theory. There are many outside factors in kick shots, the cushion on the bank and cue ball english being the most critical. To perfect a kick shot into a conversion and a good leave, you have to think millimeters. When you can think macro and micro, then you can kick.
Now one wonders how Efren had done it successfully (converting even after four rails before kicking the object ball) over and over again through the years. It's ridiculous to think that he makes out four boxes in his mind for a 4-rail kick. And to think that in many cases, he applies english to the journey of the cue ball! Would you really think he "just got lucky" with those shots?
If you look at the videos of Efren (the most famous is the Z shot against Earl on the 5 ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yNCSvOs3Ns&feature=related), Efren lays his cue on the predicted path of the cue ball AFTER IMPACT as he goes around the table to study the shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhQHRzYe-28 (That's what confuses commentators... Efren goes around measuring the path of the cue ball after impact).
Kicking a shot is a gift of sight and foresight. After realizing that you have those gifts, the application to the shot will be another story. Either you have it or you don't. And when you have it, it will depend whether you have the magic or not. Or maybe you can "just get lucky". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWRAfZ25JRU&feature=related or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YvybYOPdo&feature=related
I can't find the other youtube video where Efren made a one-rail kick (I think against Jong of Korea) and he had to apply precise english to alter the angle into the object ball on the side pocket.
Veer away from theory. There are many outside factors in kick shots, the cushion on the bank and cue ball english being the most critical. To perfect a kick shot into a conversion and a good leave, you have to think millimeters. When you can think macro and micro, then you can kick.
Now one wonders how Efren had done it successfully (converting even after four rails before kicking the object ball) over and over again through the years. It's ridiculous to think that he makes out four boxes in his mind for a 4-rail kick. And to think that in many cases, he applies english to the journey of the cue ball! Would you really think he "just got lucky" with those shots?
If you look at the videos of Efren (the most famous is the Z shot against Earl on the 5 ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yNCSvOs3Ns&feature=related), Efren lays his cue on the predicted path of the cue ball AFTER IMPACT as he goes around the table to study the shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhQHRzYe-28 (That's what confuses commentators... Efren goes around measuring the path of the cue ball after impact).
Kicking a shot is a gift of sight and foresight. After realizing that you have those gifts, the application to the shot will be another story. Either you have it or you don't. And when you have it, it will depend whether you have the magic or not. Or maybe you can "just get lucky". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWRAfZ25JRU&feature=related or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3YvybYOPdo&feature=related
I can't find the other youtube video where Efren made a one-rail kick (I think against Jong of Korea) and he had to apply precise english to alter the angle into the object ball on the side pocket.