The effect good commentary has on the "new viewer attractiveness" to pool

[sfleinen]

Pulled this particular post from the "Spat between Accu-Stats and InsidePoolMag during DCC" thread, because I think it touches on a very real point, that deserves its own thread:

+1 on that!

Freddie was my savior so many times during the week. Putting a muzzle on Alvin's inane and annoying blathering was only part of it. He really has a way of explaining things that crosses over the barrier between serious players and mere enthusiasts. His commentary with J.R. during the Pettman high run was as informative as it was entertaining.

FWIW my wife and I watched the free IP stream every chance we could. She's not a player at all, but really enjoys watching the game with me. I can't tell you how many times she said, "Oh... now I get it". Now she's really hooked. This is how you fix pool. Intelligent commentary leading to a greater understanding of the game = enjoyable viewing in the future.

The big mistake I see over and over again is commentators trying to cater to the dedicated playing audience only. Well, guess what? There aren't that many serious players in the country to provide a large fan base. Recently, John Schmidt was on here saying how worthless AZ is, and how pool is fun to play but boring to watch. What a terrible message to be putting out! For a player at his level, that may be true. However, there are millions of golf enthusiasts who can't play a lick but watch the majors anyway. Why not pool?

To me, pool is a lot more enjoyable to watch than golf because I play pool whereas I don't play golf. My wife OTOH plays neither, but she would never watch Tiger Wood's play golf if you paid her. I believe the billiard industry is dismissing a potential fan base that remains untapped. After watching a few TAR matches, the U.S. Open and then going to the last Turning Stone event with me, my gal has actually started to show interest in playing, and has begun to hit the balls around when I'm not looking.

100% agree with this. I can't tell you how many times when I was watching a live stream, that my lady sat beside me to join me, and then after hearing the commentary, either chose to stay, or get up and leave. I can say without a doubt she chooses to stay when folks like e.g. Freddie Agnir, JoeyA, Sid Waddell (RIP), Grady Mathews (RIP), Jerry Forsyth, and Billy Incardona are commentating. I won't mention names of those who she chooses to get up and leave from, but one of them is mentioned above.

One of the main things that affects pool's "viewability" (if that's a word?) is, just that -- viewability. Insightful and interesting commentary from a person with an engaging (read: non-drolling) voice is a key puzzle piece of the whole picture. In fact, I'd go one further and say it's a CORE piece! The avid pool fan (like me) has learned to "tune out" the droll, uninteresting, and in general worthless commentary that is all too common with live streams. In general, we're grown callouses to it.

But in order for pool events to be "viewable," great commentary is a CORE component. At least this makes the *presentation* of the event refined enough where if the people *do* come and watch, they are not put off by horrible commentary.

In general, I tip my hat to guys like Freddie Agnir, Jerry Forsyth, Billy Incardona, JoeyA, etc. for the good work they do in making our sport more interesting and palatable to the general public.

This is at least a first step to fixing the many woes of our sport.

Pretty soon she'll want her own cue. She'll be buying Hustlin' and Focus garments, DVDs and books, a shooting glove, and who knows what else. The billiard industry will prosper, players will get sponsored, purses will increase, and players will compete even harder for the more lucrative tournament wins. And we can thank guys like Freddie for drawing her into the fold.:smile:

Holy cow -- all this from just inspiring your wife to take up pool? Good golly, Sloppy Pockets, she's a pretty powerful person -- you better get on that!

-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

BTW, I'd be doing a disservice if I didn't add JR Calvert to that list. Sincere apologies to JR, as I think he's an OBVIOUS choice, with his intellect, engaging voice, and insightful / colorful commentary!

-Sean

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Holy cow -- all this from just inspiring your wife to take up pool? Good golly, Sloppy Pockets, she's a pretty powerful person -- you better get on that!

Ha, ha! Well, maybe she's just the point of the spear of the future of pool? Besides, proselytizing works best when you convert one heathen at a time.:wink:

 

[bdorman]

You've touched on one of my Pool Pet Peeves -- lousy commentary.

Even some of my favorites have surprised me on occasion with horrible commentary.

My biggest gripe is Focus On The Game! Save the stories and ancedotes for the time between racks. (minor exception when a 1-pocket game goes uptable:smile I still can't watch the HardTimes SVB vs. Busty match without going postal...fantastic shots, safety battles, etc. while the commentators ramble on about their children, their personal lives, blah, blah, blah...like ANYONE cares? The commentary ruined one of the all-time great match-ups.

Granted, it's hard to commentate 14.1 and one-pocket matches because the shooter has so many options.

While we're at it, let's add:
Please, do a frickin' sound check! Balance the audio volume of the table and the commentators. I like to hear the table, but in order to do so the commentary is blasting. And if you've got two commentators, balance the volume between them.

LLLLLLIIIIIIIVVVVVVEEEEE

 

[Quesports]

I would really like to know how many times the commentator said LIVE this past week? Boy that got annoying after the frist 50 or so times. JMO; I agree that having a more professional discussion about the shots and strategies would be more informative and helpful for new players...

 

[Chopdoc]

The big mistake I see over and over again is commentators trying to cater to the dedicated playing audience only.

Indeed.

Casual players and non-players far outnumber serious players. Pool is one of those sports that will get you talked to like an idiot if you aren't serious and dedicated. Players in general are typically intolerant in my experience. This forum is too often a perfect example. If a newbie logs on he is automatically treated as an idiot. Not only do most people not belong to this forum but even most serious pool players (by far actually) do not belong to this forum...but you could never guess that by the way some folks go on.....

It would be nice if more of the commentary were geared to be more pleasing to more people....


.

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[sfleinen]

Agreed about the sound check thing.

And I'd like to add this:

Otherwise good commentators completely RUIN the presentation with either dry mouth (clicking/sucking noises from the mouth between words) or chomping/jawing on a piece of gum.

Granted, we're not dealing with professional speakers here, but it's the live streamer's responsibility to know what constitutes good speaking abilities and not just throw anyone in the booth "for variety." Yes, knowledge of the game just play into it, but when you have someone with very bad speaking abilities or habits (e.g. the aforementioned dry mouth or cracking on gum), that tends to completely nullify that knowledge and take the presentation in the OPPOSITE direction.

-Sean

 

[bdorman]

Indeed.

This forum is too often a perfect example. If a newbie logs on he is automatically treated as an idiot.

.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I'm both a newbie and an idiot, but I've found the forum to be very welcoming and tolerant of my newbie questions; and very encouraging of my meager efforts to improve.

 

[TheBook]

J.R. was great. I found it very interesting how he would explain how to manufacture a break ball and at least try to come up with a pattern that the shooter would do. Also why he thought shooting some balls instead of others would lead to a problem, and most times be right. He also gave great tips on where and how to hit the rack to avoid having the CB being snookered.

I know it would be hard to commentate for hours on end and even harder when you don't know that much about the game. That seemed to be the problem with the other guy. Answering chat questions and talking about everything but the game does not get or keep the audience.

 

[krupa]

My biggest pet peeve: self-deprecating commentary.

I forget what year it was, but Charlie Williams and Tony Robles were doing the finals of the 14.1 Worlds and it seemed like every time Tony pointed out a good shot/strategy/etc, Charlie followed it up with how he (charlie) could never have done the same thing *guffaw chuckle snort*.

I don't watch pool to find out what the commentators can't do so shut up and talk about the match!

 

[Doc Holliday]

My biggest pet peeve: self-deprecating commentary.

You obviously have not heard Schmidt's commentary

 

[StraightPoolIU]

Really the only thing that bothers me is talking out loud to the chat (if there is one). I know the handful of people in the chat might like it, but since I usually go full screen and don't have the chat up I find it pretty annoying. Either talk about the game, tell an amusing anecdote if there's time, or don't say anything. A one sided out loud conversation just sounds dumb. If you want to talk to the chat just type.

 

[Maniac]

I won't mention names of those who she chooses to get up and leave from, but one of them is mentioned above.
-Sean

FWIW, and as much as the person you are speaking of in the above quote does for pool and live streaming, I will literally mute the live stream or YouTube video if he is in the booth.

Maniac

 

[krupa]

You obviously have not heard Schmidt's commentary

What's your point?

 

[sfleinen]

FWIW, and as much as the person you are speaking of in the above quote does for pool and live streaming, I will literally mute the live stream or YouTube video if he is in the booth.

Maniac

Yup, this is the "callousing" I talked about earlier -- we, as pool enthusiasts (or fanatics?) have learned to "tune out" that which distracts from the centerpiece, which is the game action itself.

But for "new viewer attractiveness," poor commentary like this is a HUGE obstacle to have to overcome. Your pool newbie ain't going to do this.

Good comment,
-Sean

 

[justadub]

So with all this having been said (and I agree, for what its worth), how do you folks reconcile this need for the commentary to be geared more towards non-players with the explosion of vitriol that any ESPN broadcast will generate?

They dumb it down for the general public, and they don't talk about their kids or other topics, just the game in front of them. Yet the forum will trash their broadcasts every time, seemingly on general principal.

It just seems counter to all the thoughts in this thread.

 

[krupa]

So with all this having been said (and I agree, for what its worth), how do you folks reconcile this need for the commentary to be geared more towards non-players with the explosion of vitriol that any ESPN broadcast will generate?

They dumb it down for the general public, and they don't talk about their kids or other topics, just the game in front of them. Yet the forum will trash their broadcasts every time, seemingly on general principal.

It just seems counter to all the thoughts in this thread.

The same thing happens on the discussion forums for MythBusters.

The sad fact is that no matter what you do, there will be plenty of people ready to jump on the Internet to criticize you for it.

I would make for a bad celebrity...
"So Matthew, how do you respond to the people who criticize you for the thing you do that made you famous?"
"@#^%! you all"

 

[Chopdoc]

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I'm both a newbie and an idiot, but I've found the forum to be very welcoming and tolerant of my newbie questions; and very encouraging of my meager efforts to improve.

I am glad you have had a good experience.

 

[sfleinen]

So with all this having been said (and I agree, for what its worth), how do you folks reconcile this need for the commentary to be geared more towards non-players with the explosion of vitriol that any ESPN broadcast will generate?

They dumb it down for the general public, and they don't talk about their kids or other topics, just the game in front of them. Yet the forum will trash their broadcasts every time, seemingly on general principal.

It just seems counter to all the thoughts in this thread.

Bruce:

It's an interesting paradox, ain't it? However, one thing I want to point it -- there's stark difference between merely "dumbing something down," and making it interesting and engaging. We're talking about the latter in this thread. Rants about Alvin aside, people with droll voices, or who crack and snap gum into the mic, or who have an annoyingly loud "dry mouth," are very different from the rants you see on AZB about folks like Jim Wych, who I personally think is a good commentator for the general public.

It's the rabid pool fans here on AZB who tear him apart, for just being a good "public-facing entity." Jim actually has a good speaking voice, a good presentation style, and has NONE of the annoying / public-speaker-assassinating bad habits that many a pool commentator has.

Compare, say, Jim Wych to the "LLLIIIIVVVEEE" guy, and you'll see where/what I'm getting at. Sad thing is -- and not to focus attention on just the "LIVE" guy -- it's just scratching the surface; he's not the only one. The tendency for live streamers is to just throw anyone into the booth, especially a pool player, without regard to whether that person actually has a public-facing/-presentable demeanor. It's like if the person is a good player and just got through a bang-up performance on the table, "oh boy, imagine what he can do for the 'trivial' task of commentating a match!" ::sigh::

-Sean

 

[BeiberLvr]

Morgan Freeman should be in the booth for the next Tar match.