The Fargo High Run?

[jason]

Mike,

Have you ever figured a formula for either playing the ghost or high ball run to figure a fargo rate? Obviously, one run or set against the ghost would not be high enough, but rating against some known stats might be comparable. For example, what is John Schmidts average run and then how would a 100 high ball runner be compared?

Just food for thought. All chime in please.

 

[BRussell]

I think it was suggested in a previous thread that it would be possible to calculate a fargo rating for the ghost. See how many games a bunch of rated players win and lose against the ghost, and go from there.

Any guesses as to what the ghost’s rating would be? 700?

 

[mikepage]

I think it was suggested in a previous thread that it would be possible to calculate a fargo rating for the ghost. See how many games a bunch of rated players win and lose against the ghost, and go from there.

Any guesses as to what the ghost’s rating would be? 700?

That will depend on the table.

Sometime after our APP is out and many people have it, we will be able to collect data on things like the progressive 9-ball drill. It would be good at some point to get information like what rating gets out 50% of the time with 5 (or some other number) balls on the table.

 

[jason]

I think it was suggested in a previous thread that it would be possible to calculate a fargo rating for the ghost. See how many games a bunch of rated players win and lose against the ghost, and go from there.

Any guesses as to what the ghost’s rating would be? 700?

Thanks. I will do a search.

Thanks for the reply Mike.

 

[highkarate]

I think it was suggested in a previous thread that it would be possible to calculate a fargo rating for the ghost. See how many games a bunch of rated players win and lose against the ghost, and go from there.

Any guesses as to what the ghost’s rating would be? 700?

Obviously it would depend on the equipment but I would guess more like low-mid 600s. 700 rated players beat the ghost in my experience. It's definitely an interesting question though.

 

[iusedtoberich]

In the AZB ghost sticky thread we have a small side discussion where people listed their Fargo ratings if known. I believe I added it to the first summary post, I forgot.

That will be a great addition imo to the straight pool ghost thread as well. I’m guessing a 600 level player would have a lifetime high run of 100.

 

[FeelDaShot]

I think it was suggested in a previous thread that it would be possible to calculate a fargo rating for the ghost. See how many games a bunch of rated players win and lose against the ghost, and go from there.

Any guesses as to what the ghost’s rating would be? 700?

The ghost plays absolutely perfect so it's fargo rating would be a perfect 1000 or whatever the high limit is.

The only reason the ghost ever loses is because it spots everyone the breaks :wink:

 

[BasementDweller]

The only way a 600 level player would have a 100 ball run under their belt would be if they have dedicated all their play to 14.1. Otherwise, a 100 ball runner would be closer to 700. Around my area, I know quite a few guys that say they have run a hundred and there's no way it's true! Then I know 700+ players that have admitted to never getting there.

 

[BC21]

The only way a 600 level player would have a 100 ball run under their belt would be if they have dedicated all their play to 14.1. Otherwise, a 100 ball runner would be closer to 700. Around my area, I know quite a few guys that say they have run a hundred and there's no way it's true! Then I know 700+ players that have admitted to never getting there.

I buy this. My fargo rating, last time I checked was in the 620's. But my best runs in 14.1 on a 9ft tight table are in the 70's. Highest is 78. Most always it's an easy shot that I dog.

 

[nine_ball6970]

The only way a 600 level player would have a 100 ball run under their belt would be if they have dedicated all their play to 14.1. Otherwise, a 100 ball runner would be closer to 700. Around my area, I know quite a few guys that say they have run a hundred and there's no way it's true! Then I know 700+ players that have admitted to never getting there.

Players I know in the 650 range have run 75 or so. I think the 700s have all ran over 100 and most of them don't play it all that often.

 

[jason]

The ghost plays absolutely perfect so it's fargo rating would be a perfect 1000 or whatever the high limit is.

The only reason the ghost ever loses is because it spots everyone the breaks :wink:

Thats true and hard to calculate. I'm not sure the top rate is 1000. Might be, if so, then could Shane beat the ghost 80% of the time? Thats why I'm asking the question.

 

[Tin Man]

Fargo Rate

I play the 10 ball ghost on a 9' diamond with pro cut pockets and worn cloth multiple times a week. I would probably put it at about 675.

I have played many 650s and in a race to 7, 9, or 11 it is very difficult for them to win a set off of me (On a 9' table. On a bar box every match is a sweat!). I would much rather play a 650 than the ghost. My FR is 737 today so FR says in a race to 7 they would be 13.6% and less than 9% in a race to 11. I know my win rate against the ghost isn't over 90%.

It is just so easy to go down in flames against the ghost! You can fall into a little slump and dog off a few games so quickly it's astonishing, and quickly find yourself in a do or die situation down 7-3 in a race to 9. At that point you have to play perfectly and with a bad roll or a tough cluster off the break it might be too late.

In contrast, when you play a human it just seems like there is more time to recover. You have some time to regroup in the chair. Sometimes they make a mistake back and you get pumped up because you got away with one. Etc.

Bottom line, the consistency of the ghost is what makes it such a tough opponent. That all said, I would much rather play the ghost than a 700 FR player that is going to fight me hard for every opportunity, run racks off the break, and so on. So I figure 675 has to be pretty close to the number, that's when I'm not sure who I'd rather gamble against.

As for straight pool, it's hard to match it up as it is such a specialized skill set. In straight pool John Schmidt would be an 810 FR, and some 800s might be much lower.

I know 650s that have 100 ball runs, and I know 700s that don't. I love straight pool but it's not my best game. Maybe there are a couple of weak links that have prevented me from attaining super high runs. I've run over 100 a handful of times but it's tough for me. Meanwhile many of the short stops in my area in the 80s and 90s ran hundreds much more than me, maybe because the game was played more frequently. I'm sure there's a correlation between FR and 14.1 high runs, but I think there will be shocking variance. Possibly just as much as the variance between rotation and one pocket where Tony Chohan can be considered Elite and some international 800 FRs are merely shortstops.

 

[jrctherake]

I think it was suggested in a previous thread that it would be possible to calculate a fargo rating for the ghost. See how many games a bunch of rated players win and lose against the ghost, and go from there.

Any guesses as to what the ghost’s rating would be? 700?

IMO, all ghost are different rating:

9 ball...... template n BIH.... ~575 to 600...no BIH...~625 or so
9 ball triangle n BIH.....~600 to 625.....no BIH.....~625 to 650 or so

10 ball...template n BIH...~650 .....triangle n BIH...~675 or so
10 ball template without BIH...~675......Triangle without BIH...~675+

To me, the ghost is a very low level shortstop at best.....especially when combining templates/BIH.

 

[jrctherake]

I play the 10 ball ghost on a 9' diamond with pro cut pockets and worn cloth multiple times a week. I would probably put it at about 675.

I have played many 650s and in a race to 7, 9, or 11 it is very difficult for them to win a set off of me (On a 9' table. On a bar box every match is a sweat!). I would much rather play a 650 than the ghost. My FR is 737 today so FR says in a race to 7 they would be 13.6% and less than 9% in a race to 11. I know my win rate against the ghost isn't over 90%.

It is just so easy to go down in flames against the ghost! You can fall into a little slump and dog off a few games so quickly it's astonishing, and quickly find yourself in a do or die situation down 7-3 in a race to 9. At that point you have to play perfectly and with a bad roll or a tough cluster off the break it might be too late.

In contrast, when you play a human it just seems like there is more time to recover. You have some time to regroup in the chair. Sometimes they make a mistake back and you get pumped up because you got away with one. Etc.

Bottom line, the consistency of the ghost is what makes it such a tough opponent. That all said, I would much rather play the ghost than a 700 FR player that is going to fight me hard for every opportunity, run racks off the break, and so on. So I figure 675 has to be pretty close to the number, that's when I'm not sure who I'd rather gamble against.

As for straight pool, it's hard to match it up as it is such a specialized skill set. In straight pool John Schmidt would be an 810 FR, and some 800s might be much lower.

I know 650s that have 100 ball runs, and I know 700s that don't. I love straight pool but it's not my best game. Maybe there are a couple of weak links that have prevented me from attaining super high runs. I've run over 100 a handful of times but it's tough for me. Meanwhile many of the short stops in my area in the 80s and 90s ran hundreds much more than me, maybe because the game was played more frequently. I'm sure there's a correlation between FR and 14.1 high runs, but I think there will be shocking variance. Possibly just as much as the variance between rotation and one pocket where Tony Chohan can be considered Elite and some international 800 FRs are merely shortstops.

I agree. I had much rather gamble against the ghost than a true 700+ player.

I play against players much tougher than the ghost ever now and then. Lol.... on occasion, I fade the ghost but, lol.... I never fade 700+ players. I win some /lose some.... but never fade em.

Ghost is weak shortstop IMO..

 

[sixpack]

Mike,

Have you ever figured a formula for either playing the ghost or high ball run to figure a fargo rate? Obviously, one run or set against the ghost would not be high enough, but rating against some known stats might be comparable. For example, what is John Schmidts average run and then how would a 100 high ball runner be compared?

Just food for thought. All chime in please.

I thought John Schmidt was called Mr. 400 because that was his fargo rating so I challenged him to a game.

Did not work out well.

 

[jrctherake]

I thought John Schmidt was called Mr. 400 because that was his fargo rating so I challenged him to a game.

Did not work out well.

I see John a few times a year. Next time I see him, I'm gonna use that "is 400 your fargo?"....is that why everyone calls you Mr. 400.....?

I bet he dont laugh if he's in the same mood he was in the last time I spoke to him...grrrr...

John is a very, very good guy but he can be, like all HIGH level players..... touchy about his 14.1 game at times.

I wish I had 50% of his talent. If I did, I would 1000% better than I am now and that's sad since I'm hitting better than I ever have before.....not counting the slump I've slipped into this week but, that's another story....lol.

 

[sixpack]

I see John a few times a year. Next time I see him, I'm gonna use that "is 400 your fargo?"....is that why everyone calls you Mr. 400.....?

I bet he dont laugh if he's in the same mood he was in the last time I spoke to him...grrrr...

John is a very, very good guy but he can be, like all HIGH level players..... touchy about his 14.1 game at times.

I wish I had 50% of his talent. If I did, I would 1000% better than I am now and that's sad since I'm hitting better than I ever have before.....not counting the slump I've slipped into this week but, that's another story....lol.

Yeah. He's probably going to be pissed at me for even joking around about it. He's an amazing player and I love to watch him play whenever I can. I will be pulling for him in AZ.

 

[jrctherake]

Yeah. He's probably going to be pissed at me for even joking around about it. He's an amazing player and I love to watch him play whenever I can. I will be pulling for him in AZ.

Naw, John is one of the nicest people in pool today. People like him that stays in the spotlight, they are more or less use to comments of all types.

What you and I have said, would in no way piss him off. BTW, lol.... i know, like myself.... you were kidding in the first place.

All the really high level pros of today "need" the spotlight. IMO, said spotlight and being use to can make or break a player at crucial times.

 

[iusedtoberich]

The only way a 600 level player would have a 100 ball run under their belt would be if they have dedicated all their play to 14.1. Otherwise, a 100 ball runner would be closer to 700. Around my area, I know quite a few guys that say they have run a hundred and there's no way it's true! Then I know 700+ players that have admitted to never getting there.

I personally know a 630 with robustness 89 that claims 140 range, I think he's lying.
I personally know a 605 with 347 robustness that claims 150 range. I think he's maybe dreaming, but he swears it happened.
I personally know a 594 with 88 robustness that is around 150. This is 100%. This guy is an open speed player but fell out of the game since fargo started.
I personally know a 448 with robustness 14 that ran 160 something, 100%. ha ha.
I personally know a 653 with robustness 55 that ran 330 range, 100%, several witnesses.

Now, the only one that is established is the 605 that claimed 150 range, and I half don't believe him, but he does shoot straight. The problem with him is he's dumb, so I can't fathom how he'd get through so many racks.

 

[9BallKY]

That will depend on the table.

Sometime after our APP is out and many people have it, we will be able to collect data on things like the progressive 9-ball drill. It would be good at some point to get information like what rating gets out 50% of the time with 5 (or some other number) balls on the table.

Do you have a timeframe yet on when the app will be available?
If my rating was based on how many balls I could run in 14.1 it would be lower than homeless person bank account.

I think I’ve only played 14.1 about 3 times in my life. I did manage to run 30 once though.