The Hunter sometimes is the Hunted....Anyone have a story about being hustled in a pool hall?

[CJ Wiley]

I was in action around Decatur in ‘78....won enough money to buy a house. The best 9-baller in the area kept sticking his nose in my action...mostly snooker, a little 3-c and some 14.1...so when the action dried up, I told him to find a stake horse...but minimum $500 a game, put up for five, he was getting the wild 8......nobody would back him.

Seven years later...I’m in the Florida Panhandle...been up for two days...greasy hair, sweaty T-shirt...wander into a room and the guy from Decatur is there...he’s the star in this room. I sit down and start talking to John Henry...knew him from Detroit...couple guys can overhear us talking...told him I got into coke and heroin...explained how I looked.
You could see the info spreading around the room like a pebble being thrown into a pond.

The ‘star’ comes over to make a game with me...told him I din’t play any more, but I’d take the break and the 8.
He bragged about how he had lots of cash now, could get 30 Gs at three in the morning if he needed it.

We start at $100 a game, no score here....lost a few...raise it to 200...lost a bit more..he refused another raise.
I smelled the rat...started winning...when I got up two games...a bunch of fives showed up from the pool hall office.

No score, I let him get even and I quit.

I went for his ‘rich’ story, hook, line, and sinker....’course, he went for mine also....
...strongest thing I ever ingest is black coffee.

That's a great story, I haven't thought or heard the name John Henry in possibly 30+ years!

Some of the most fun gambling games I had was when I was hustling my opponent and he was "hustling" me. I've had games start out for $10 a game, with this scenario and end up doubling up until I'd won over $6000....this exact thing happened in Kentucky, I tell the story in one of my 'Adventures on the Road' youtube videos, it's too long to write down, it also involved getting knocked by someone an the pay phone......remember, when every pool hall had a pay phone before cell phones were real anywhere but on Star Trek?!?

 

[boogieman]

That's a great story, I haven't thought or heard the name John Henry in possibly 30+ years!

Some of the most fun gambling games I had was when I was hustling my opponent and he was "hustling" me. I've had games start out for $10 a game, with this scenario and end up doubling up until I'd won over $6000....this exact thing happened in Kentucky, I tell the story in one of my 'Adventures on the Road' youtube videos, it's too long to write down, it also involved getting knocked by someone an the pay phone......remember, when every pool hall had a pay phone before cell phones were real anywhere buy on Star Trek?!?

link for the lazy.

 

[jay helfert]

Many ways to get hustled in pool. A road player came to Beenies in the middle 70'
named Gerry. My road partner Seattle Sam took him around and made some scores.
Gerry knew I was with Sam, so one night he calls me over to the phone and acts like
hes talking to Sam. He hangs up and says that Sam will stand good for $100 from me to Gerry. I said ok and gave him 2 $50's. He left town that night and never returned. Saw Sam the next day, told him what happened. He said 'I thought you were smarted that that. I said, 'so it was ok to give him 2 of the counterfeit $50' that have been floating around ? lol. Sam fell over laughing !!!
In a pool room, trust nothing that you hear and 10% of what you see ! Seattle Sam's
code to live by.
Miss you buddy
Sam Trivett
'Seattle's stroke will make you choke'

I think you are referring to Gerry Watson, a very good player from north of the border. He spent considerable time on the road in the states and booked a lot of winners. Only a true champion could beat him and maybe not even then. Gerry was that good!

 

[garczar]

I think you are referring to Gerry Watson, a very good player from north of the border. He spent considerable time on the road in the states and booked a lot of winners. Only a true champion could beat him and maybe not even then. Gerry was that good!

GW spent some time in Tulsa in mid-80's. Dude can flat gin it. He got the 8b from D.Lane and ROASTED him. I think Dick needed the 8 myself. Gerry lives up in Toronto area and still teaches iirc. Really a good guy.

 

[alstl]

Probably my most memorable was when Navy Gary came up to L.A. from San Diego where he was stationed (he was really in the Navy). I had heard about this straight shooting kid down there that was beating just about everybody. Gary showed up in my home room Ye Billiard Den and asked me to play some 9-Ball. I played him for $5 a game and after awhile I could see that I couldn't win so I quit. He asked me where he could get a game for "real" money and flashed his $400 bankroll on me. I told him the biggest action in town was at Daisy Mae's, a bar in Orange County. He said let's go and off we went in my '67 Vette.

When we got there a big game was already underway, with this heavily muscled guy playing one of the Mexican bar table champions. He was getting the 7, 8 & 9 from Al Nicaraugua and losing. We sweated the game and eventually It broke up without a clear winner. Now this scary looking guy looked around and asked if anyone else wanted to play. Gary pipes up, "I'll play you!" The guy gives Gary this strange look and says "Who the fuck are you?" Gary just smiled and waved his money in the air and said, "Come and get it." Turns out this beefy guy was called Charlie "The Ape" for good reason. He was only maybe 5'9" or 5'10 but he was really built like an ape, with a gargantuan upper body and short fat legs. He had the ridgeline of an ape in his forehead too.

Right away Charlie tells Gary that everyone gives him the eight ball in here. Now, I had been watching this guy play for over half an hour and he cut the balls like a butcher with that big cue ball. He could play and was no slouch on that table. No problem for Gary and he said okay you've got the eight. Gary just wanted to get the guy on the table and gamble. Talk about confidence. Charlie tells him the minimum bet was fifty a game and once again Gary says okay. I hesitated but Gary convinced me to give him my 200, so now we had a $600 bankroll. They start out playing without Gary hitting one ball on that table and right away we are losing. By the time Gary gets warmed up we are down three or four hundred. Then the tide turns and Gary starts to run out every game. Pretty soon we are up 500 and Charlie says "raise the bet to 100 a game." Gary agrees and keeps right on winning. About 2,000 later Charlie goes bust and he tells us to wait and he will get more money. He goes out the door and gets in his car and leaves. I tell Gary let's get the Hell out of here. We are about $2,500 winners and I'm thrilled. But other people are telling us that Charlie will come back with more money, so we stay, and sure enough in about fifteen minutes he's back.

Gary's in dead stroke now and he quickly buries Charlie for another two grand. Charlie is steaming mad now and frankly I'm scared. Charlie bellows that he wants to put up his car (a little Chevy II) against 400. I don't want to do it but Gary says okay. Gary posts the 400 and Charlie hands his car title to the bartender to hold. Pretty soon Gary wins that round too. Charlie is broke and starts acting crazy. He grabs the car title from the bartender when he tries to hand it over to Gary and yells at us that we have to play him again to keep it. I just want to get the fuck out of there. I'm stalling, trying to figure out what to do and Gary is trying to talk sense into him, telling him we will come back tomorrow and play him some more. It's not working and Charlie is getting madder by the minute. I have my little .25 in the back pocket of my jeans, but that seems like a bad idea. If I shot him it might only make him want to kill me. You'd need a .357 minimum to stop this guy!

Now Gary tells Charlie okay, he will play him again for the car. He whispers in my ear to sneak outside after he racks the balls and get my car and come around to the front door of the bar. He says to leave the passenger door open and honk my horn twice. That's our plan and sure enough when they get started Charlie is no longer paying attention to me. I sneak outside and jump in my Vette and bring it around to the front. I reach over and open the door and honk my horn twice. In maybe five seconds Gary comes running out and jumps in the car and yells, "Get the fuck out of here!" And I peel out of that parking lot. In my rear view mirror I see Charlie run out the door. He's got his hands raised and appears to be yelling at us. No one is going to catch me in that car! And they don't even try. I ask Gary what he did to get away. He tells me that he told Charlie he was going to the restroom and made a run for the door instead. We go back to my apartment in Hollywood and cut up over 4K.

We had lost the 400 we put up for the car but so what. That was the cost of doing business that night. Gary went back to San Diego a day later. He had been on leave for the weekend. Next time I saw him he told me that he went back the next week and beat Charlie again. I wanted no part of it and Gary knew not to ask me to take him back there. I didn't see Charlie again for a couple of years until he showed up at one of Fred Whalen's pool tournaments where I was ref'ing. He looked at me and never said a word and I didn't either. It was as if it had never happened. Crazy huh.

I left out one part that is forever etched in my brain. After Gary won the car bet and Charlie started going crazy, he reached down and grabbed that Valley bar table with one hand and picked the end up in the air shoulder high! That both shocked and frightened the shit out of me.

Is that Gary Seville?

 

[garczar]

Is that Gary Seville?

I know Seville as a KansasCity area player. Did he play out west? Stationed out there maybe?

 

[book collector]

She had that look about her, bad news in a t shirt. She was the daughter of a semi famous pool player, down in the dirty south.
I knew I had been set up , but I wanted to see where the train went , so I bought a ticket.
We played 9 ball for about 16 straight hours and neither of us would take a bathroom break, just to make the other one miserable.
I finally went bust and I said , I know you aren't old enough to be in here on your own , just how old are you , she grinned and gleeked all over me with her braces and said , I'm 8 years old you stinky turd, you should take up checkers, cause pool ain't your game.
I will never forget that kid as long as I live , and the wisdom she carried around at such a young age.

 

[alstl]

I know Seville as a KansasCity area player. Did he play out west? Stationed out there maybe?

I don't know but Jay mentioned "Navy Gary" and Gary Seville's nickname I think was "sailor". No idea if he still plays but wondered if it's the same guy.

 

[garczar]

I don't know but Jay mentioned "Navy Gary" and Gary Seville's nickname I think was "sailor". No idea if he still plays but wondered if it's the same guy.

Could be. Saw him at Olathe a few yrs back and he was still playing but not a lot.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I used to play a little with Bobby Hunter when he frequented my room. When we played Hunter was always the hunted but never the prey.

Was hunted once by Cliff Joyner, but he didn't catch me - I recognized him and declined his "offer".

pj
chgo

 

[jay helfert]

Is that Gary Seville?

Yes sir.

 

[jay helfert]

I know Seville as a KansasCity area player. Did he play out west? Stationed out there maybe?

He was stationed in San Diego at the time. I think he was only 19 or 20 years old. In his prime as a pool player!
We stayed in touch after that. He and his wife Zona owned a chain of beauty parlors in KC for many years. They may still have one now.

 

[alstl]

C J you should start a thread about being air barreled. I'm sure it happened to you probably more than once. I'd be interested in hearing experiences of players who were air barreled and how they responded.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I think you are referring to Gerry Watson, a very good player from north of the border. He spent considerable time on the road in the states and booked a lot of winners. Only a true champion could beat him and maybe not even then. Gerry was that good!

Some friends of mine ran into Gerry Watson over at Louisville during the Kentucky Derby, he had a Budweiser cue that actually hit pretty well (just for hustling). They brought him over to Farmington Mo to steer him around and we were introduced, he's a charismatic character and we hit it off and went to several spots together.

The first night after we met the local boys wanted to see us play so we battled in their basement on a bar table. He underestimated me, since I was 17 and looked like I was 15 lol - we weren't playing for much money, but Gerry didn't particularly like the results....I probably couldn't beat him for larger wagers, however, I free wheeled pretty well at the time. We had a great time on the road, he was "Doctor Watson" but I never convinced anyone I was Sherlock Holmes.

Great memories, I appreciate your memory and knowledge of all the road players that many have never heard of, it reminds me of a couple great stories I have with Gerry (the Doctor) Watson. Happy Thanksgiving, bud, hope life is treating you well and the food is delicious my friend!

 

[Black-Balled]

C J you should start a thread about being air barreled. I'm sure it happened to you probably more than once. I'd be interested in hearing experiences of players who were air barreled and how they responded.

As long as it isn't the first game or set, it is just the cost of doing business.

All you can do is ask somebody local to buy the debt for a discount, or perhaps get a cue or jacket in lieu of cash.

 

[CJ Wiley]

C J you should start a thread about being air barreled. I'm sure it happened to you probably more than once. I'd be interested in hearing experiences of players who were air barreled and how they responded.

I do have several stories about the dreaded air barrel. The worst one that happened to me was playing 7 ahead sets. I won the first one and got paid, the next one took like 12 hours to win and I got stiffed......I was much more cautious after that, but on the other side of the coin I've let men go "on the wire" for $5000+ and got paid several times. It's a judgement call, usually there's nothing to lose but time.

 

[jay helfert]

Some friends of mine ran into Gerry Watson over at Louisville during the Kentucky Derby, he had a Budweiser cue that actually hit pretty well (just for hustling). They brought him over to Farmington Mo to steer him around and we were introduced, he's a charismatic character and we hit it off and went to several spots together.

The first night after we met the local boys wanted to see us play so we battled in their basement on a bar table. He underestimated me, since I was 17 and looked like I was 15 lol - we weren't playing for much money, but Gerry didn't particularly like the results....I probably couldn't beat him for larger wagers, however, I free wheeled pretty well at the time. We had a great time on the road, he was "Doctor Watson" but I never convinced anyone I was Sherlock Holmes.

Great memories, I appreciate your memory and knowledge of all the road players that many have never heard of, it reminds me of a couple great stories I have with Gerry (the Doctor) Watson. Happy Thanksgiving, bud, hope life is treating you well and the food is delicious my friend!

Thank you CJ. Unlike you I avoided playing guys like this. I was on the lookout for much softer action because there was a lot of it around back then, with poolrooms everywhere. I was glad to know who's who in the pool world, so that I managed to get on the right side of many games. Our illustrious colleague Billy Cardone said I was the best handicapper out there. When he was making book he would often come to me and ask about a certain player that he didn't know. He just wanted to get a line on their game before he made book on the match.

P.S. I even knew how you played CJ! Ha Ha. I was there you when you won the Junior Championship at the World Series of Tavern Pool and then had to play Dallas West for the over-all championship. He beat you but it wasn't easy. You weren't afraid or intimidated. I thought to myself, damn this high school kid can play!

 

[jay helfert]

I do have several stories about the dreaded air barrel. The worst one that happened to me was playing 7 ahead sets. I won the first one and got paid, the next one took like 12 hours to win and I got stiffed......I was much more cautious after that, but on the other side of the coin I've let men go "on the wire" for $5000+ and got paid several times. It's a judgement call, usually there's nothing to lose but time.

Then there is the dreaded moment when we had to "play on ass." For those unfamiliar with this term that meant getting into a game with no money in our pocket. If we lost we were in trouble and either had to give up our cue or possibly face an ass whipping. Many players on the road were faced with this very dilemma on one or more occasions. Being broke and alone will force you to take chances you normally wouldn't take.

I only once resorted to this tactic, when I went broke my first time on the road and was stuck sleeping in my '56 Chevy and no money even for gas. I was only a couple of hundred miles from home in Dayton (I was in S. Illinois) and I saw a poolroom in the little town of Effingham. I had gotten busted by Benny Conway in Johnston City and was trying to get home with the five dollars he gave me afterwards. It wasn't enough! So I go in this place that had both snooker tables and pool tables in it, all lined up in a row. There was a ring Golf game going on the back snooker table and I sat there and watched. I could see that no one in the game played that well, but I had maybe fifty cents in my pocket. I couldn't play!

I was trying to figure out how I could make some money in there, just when one guy quits the game. He walks over to a guy sitting close to me and tells him that he hates playing snooker, but he played since there was no other game for him to get into. HMMMM. I pipe up that I was looking for someone to play 9-Ball with. I think I surprised him because he didn't say anything at first. Then he asked me my name and I told him. He asked me where I lived and I told him I lived in Dayton and was on my way home from school at Oklahoma U. That answer met with his approval and he started telling me about some relative of his who went there before. I think he said the guy played football, which is a big deal at O.U.

After awhile I asked him again if he felt like playing because I did. He said sure, how much do you want to play for? Perfect! I told him how about $2 a game and we pay after $10 (or five games ahead). The game was on. I won't go into the details but I walked out with $20 and change. I felt like a Millionaire at that moment! That's the only time I remember doing that, and from then on I kept a hidden twenty dollar bill in my car for emergencies.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Then there is the dreaded moment when we had to "play on ass." For those unfamiliar with this term that meant getting into a game with no money in our pocket. If we lost we were in trouble and either had to give up our cue or possibly face an ass whipping. Many players on the road were faced with this very dilemma on one or more occasions. Being broke and alone will force you to take chances you normally wouldn't take.

I only once resorted to this tactic, when I went broke my first time on the road and was stuck sleeping in my '56 Chevy and no money even for gas. I was only a couple of hundred miles from home in Dayton (I was in S. Illinois) and I saw a poolroom in the little town of Effingham. I had gotten busted by Benny Conway in Johnston City and was trying to get home with the five dollars he gave me afterwards. It wasn't enough! So I go in this place that had both snooker tables and pool tables in it, all lined up in a row. There was a ring Golf game going on the back snooker table and I sat there and watched. I could see that no one in the game played that well, but I had maybe fifty cents in my pocket. I couldn't play!

I was trying to figure out how I could make some money in there, just when one guy quits the game. He walks over to a guy sitting close to me and tells him that he hates playing snooker, but he played since there was no other game for him to get into. HMMMM. I pipe up that I was looking for someone to play 9-Ball with. I think I surprised him because he didn't say anything at first. Then he asked me my name and I told him. He asked me where I lived and I told him I lived in Dayton and was on my way home from school at Oklahoma U. That answer met with his approval and he started telling me about some relative of his who went there before. I think he said the guy played football, which is a big deal at O.U.

After awhile I asked him again if he felt like playing because I did. He said sure, how much do you want to play for? Perfect! I told him how about $2 a game and we pay after $10 (or five games ahead). The game was on. I won't go into the details but I walked out with $20 and change. I felt like a Millionaire at that moment! That's the only time I remember doing that, and from then on I kept a hidden twenty dollar bill in my car for emergencies.

I bet that was brutal on your nerves, Lee Trevino used to say playing Pro golf for millions wasn't pressure it was playing for $20 with $5 in your pocket, or something to that effect.....I'm sure we both agree. (funny thing about Lee is I went to school with one of his sons and when I moved to Dallas I was a member of a Country Club Stone Bridge cc (Hank Haney was the head pro), they were closed on Mondays but they let the "cart boys" and staff play that day, I was invited and mid way through the round one kid ask the other "how's your dad doing this year with golf?" ----"he's won about 700" -----I started thinking about it the next hole and ask him "your dad won 700....700 dollars?" -----he grinned, "no, 700 Thousand!" -----"wow, who is your dad?!?" ----- "Lee Trevino"......lol ......."I went to high school in a town of 629 people with Your Brother!" ------"Ricky?"-----"Yep!" ........small world.......... what's the odds of me knowing two of Lee's sons?!? (I've never met Lee, wish I had).

What does playing golf and me playing on "Air" tie together?

I was in Hawaii a couple months before I won the ESPN World Open playing a round of golf. The man I was playing with was nice, a pretty good golfer, we played fairly even and agreed to play for $10 a hole, just having a good time. He hit a bad shot and grumbled "glad this isn't my best freaking game!"

"I know the feeling, what's your best game?" -----"Pool"----I about spit up the water I was drinking "really.... you don't look like a pool player!?!"

"Yeah, I know, mostly paid my way through college hustling at the local bars and pool halls" ------"that's unusual......what's funny is...I'm an accomplished pool player too!"

I tried to tell him he probably couldn't win gambling against me, but he said he didn't care and would absolutely LOVE to play one race to 10 for $700 that night......I hesitantly agreed... because I only had about $200 in cash, ironically I just had some issues with my bank and couldn't get more money for 2 days - for some reason he would only play one set for $700.

I remember going to meet him at the hotel he said had a nice pool table and how I was fighting off anxiety because I didn't have enough money to cover the bet......I knew I would have it in 2 days, but still.....my life has been filled with extremely unusual and unpredictable things (Jay, you probably remember one of them in Dallas for a Mill. ).

We flipped the coin, he won.... sure enough he broke and ran the first rack....WTF?!?!?

I felt like someone had stabbed me in the back with a knife made out of some of that Hawaiian lava!

My hands started sweating and I suddenly felt nauseous..... I took some deep breaths, excepted the worst case scenario.....and proceeded to play like it was against Efren for the Bicycle Club championships (except this had WAY more pressure!) ---- managed to win 11/7, he played surprisingly well, just not quite good enough.....he'll never know how close he came to making one of the best money players in the world (at the time) sweat bullets the size of Dirty Harry's 44 Magnum.......which would have definitely not "Made My Day!!"

I bet you remember that feeling you had too that day, Jay"?!? I do!! ----my stomach had a couple knots just writing about this experience, hadn't thought of it in many years.......The Game is the Teacher

 

[jay helfert]

I bet that was brutal on your nerves, Lee Trevino used to say playing Pro golf for millions wasn't pressure it was playing for $20 with $5 in your pocket, or something to that effect.....I'm sure we both agree. (funny thing about Lee is I went to school with one of his sons and when I moved to Dallas I was a member of a Country Club Stone Bridge cc (Hank Haney was the head pro), they were closed on Mondays but they let the "cart boys" and staff play that day, I was invited and mid way through the round one kid ask the other "how's your dad doing this year with golf?" ----"he's won about 700" -----I started thinking about it the next hole and ask him "your dad won 700....700 dollars?" -----he grinned, "no, 700 Thousand!" -----"wow, who is your dad?!?" ----- "Lee Trevino"......lol ......."I went to high school in a town of 629 people with Your Brother!" ------"Ricky?"-----"Yep!" ........small world.......... what's the odds of me knowing two of Lee's sons?!? (I've never met Lee, wish I had).

What does playing golf and me playing on "Air" tie together?

I was in Hawaii a couple months before I won the ESPN World Open playing a round of golf. The man I was playing with was nice, a pretty good golfer, we played fairly even and agreed to play for $10 a hole, just having a good time. He hit a bad shot and grumbled "glad this isn't my best freaking game!"

"I know the feeling, what's your best game?" -----"Pool"----I about spit up the water I was drinking "really.... you don't look like a pool player!?!"

"Yeah, I know, mostly paid my way through college hustling at the local bars and pool halls" ------"that's unusual......what's funny is...I'm an accomplished pool player too!"

I tried to tell him he probably couldn't win gambling against me, but he said he didn't care and would absolutely LOVE to play one race to 10 for $700 that night......I hesitantly agreed... because I only had about $200 in cash, ironically I just had some issues with my bank and couldn't get more money for 2 days - for some reason he would only play one set for $700.

I remember going to meet him at the hotel he said had a nice pool table and how I was fighting off anxiety because I didn't have enough money to cover the bet......I knew I would have it in 2 days, but still.....my life has been filled with extremely unusual and unpredictable things (Jay, you probably remember one of them in Dallas for a Mill. ).

We flipped the coin, he won.... sure enough he broke and ran the first rack....WTF?!?!?

I felt like someone had stabbed me in the back with a knife made out of some of that Hawaiian lava!

My hands started sweating and I suddenly felt nauseous..... I took some deep breaths, excepted the worst case scenario.....and proceeded to play like it was against Efren for the Bicycle Club championships (except this had WAY more pressure!) ---- managed to win 11/7, he played surprisingly well, just not quite good enough.....he'll never know how close he came to making one of the best money players in the world (at the time) sweat bullets the size of Dirty Harry's 44 Magnum.......which would have definitely not "Made My Day!!"

I bet you remember that feeling you had too that day, Jay"?!? I do!! ----my stomach had a couple knots just writing about this experience, hadn't thought of it in many years.......The Game is the Teacher

You had a lot more pressure than me and not because of the size of the bet. I was 99% sure I could beat this guy five ahead. He was basically a banger who liked to ride the nine (he did it successfully once). You ran into a local shortstop who could play a little. That could definitely put some heat on you. My big sweat was getting the guy to the table without him asking me to post something. I couldn't even put up for one game!