The only way I will ever play 9 ball again...

[Poolhalljunkie]

Rule change

I don't really care for the game. I don't know if it is the luck factor or that I think it is mindless pool fodder. The following are the only rules I will ever use to play this game.

Scratch goes in the kitchen after the break or on any scratched shot, the incoming player has the option to differ to the fouling player if they so wish, even after the break.
In game fouls are played where they lie, no ball in hand, the incomming player has the option to differ or take the shot as they see fit.
All shots are call pocket.
Making the 9 ball out of turn results in a loss to the shooting player. The 9 ball if made on the break, spots on the foot spot.

If anyone else has any other ideas to make the game a little more "pure", please let me know.
Kai

ALL BALL FOULS!! in all games not just 9-ball. I have seen several gamblers that if a ball is on the rail when it is there turn at the table by the time they leave it's not and the cue ball didn't even come close to touching it but there cue or a finger did.

 

[sokaiba]

If that's true...why do we see the same players winning the same tournaments over and over? I would be willing to bet, that the same 10 players win the majority of the prize money in Major tournaments.

I think this is much more apparent in 10 ball then it is in 9 ball. If you look at the larger 9 ball tourneys around the country you will see that the short stops and road players are cashing more where they have a much much smaller chance in 10 ball because so much of the luck is taken out of the game.

 

[canwin]

I believe you have touched on something that leads me to believe that we are not talking about the same thing.

I am not talking about winning and losing, despite having mentioned situations where i have lost because of luck.

I am not talking about good players outrunning the luck and beating bad players.

I am not talking about opportunities for luck happening based on opportunities at the table, or lack thereof.

I am talking about luck as a PART OF THE GAME.
All that other stuff is not what i am talking about.

There are crappy and mid level players who get lucky all the time.
It still doesn't mean they are going to run out when they finally get back BIH.

And there are strong players who get lucky, where one roll can provide them with the opportunity to define a match.

Skill level vs luck is not at the core of my argument.

Luck being an inherent part of the game of 9ball, IS.

I think another word for luck is random(ness) Your going to get random rolls in dice, pool and cards. That's the inherant nature of these games.
But when you add 1 foul BIH to any game in pool, then your opening up an even wider spectrum of randomness(luck)

 

[Big Perm]

I think with all the improvements in what we play with and how we are now able to approach the game, that it is time to change the game to make it even more challenging. Take golf for example, holes are continuing to get longer as new and better materials are allowing players to hit balls farther. So why not adjust the games of pool to continue to push us as players towards the perfection that we truely seek. Maybe it's time to go to full rack rotaion (not the pinoy rotation).

Kai

Actually, golf has gone backwards and is not pushing towards perfection and golf purists will tell you so......old irons had a sweet spot about the size of a dime, and drivers were wooden and had a much smaller sweet spot.....contact had to be perfect.....drivers today have HUGE sweet spots, and many pro players are using cavity back clubs which are more forgiving.....the golf balls of today make the game easier as well....also, golf courses have been redesigned and courses do not play as the architects intended them....

To make pool like golf, you'd simply move to a 10 foot table with 4 inch pockets.....this limits luck in all games you would play....

I just don't get all the anger around 9 ball......it's a game, with it's own set of rules, and it's a big reason so many people play pool today.....9 ball and 8 ball keep pool rooms open and make it possible for the bar owner to have those few 9 footers in the back so we can enjoy 14.1 and 1 pocket....

If you guys hate it, think about some of the great feats in pool.....games that people would call perfect, or close to perfect....

400+ in straight pool....
11-pack in 9 ball
5 pack in 8 ball
8 and out 3 times in a row in one pocket

Regardless of the game, these great players played the closest thing to perfect that many of us have seen......perfect pool in 9-ball is making a ball on 11 breaks, leaving a shot on the 1 ball, and running out 11 times in a row.....there might be a tiny bit of luck, but the skill level to do that is rediculous.....

Too many people associate perfect play with some type of defense or defensive game.....perfect players make every shot and hit their leave every time, defense is not a requirement.....pure pool is about pocketing balls effortlessly and the top players in 9 ball don't need much luck because they are that good....

 

[JoeyA]

Man I understand you frustration...but you simply cannot make the game so hard for lesser players to have a chance that they don't wanna play anymore. I mean, who wants to get run over all the time with NO CHANCE at all of winning? If that were the case we would all play 14.1 and One Pocket. Either player may get lucky, true. But only one player is BETTER. And most of the time they (the better player) are gonna win. I hate bar boxes because I can lose to a lesser skilled player some of the time, but I don't let it bother me as much because that's just the game. The better player is not going to win EVERY GAME...I know a guy that is an Open caliber player thinks he should win EVERY GAME because he is a better than all of us. Even though he wins 95% of the games, that other five percent just kills him. But what you guys don't understand is that the other 5% is all some of us even play for...sometimes the little guys deserve to win, we can't all be champions. Gimmie a break....

You bring up a very good point that I mention from time to time.

The better players should welcome all of the bangers and be appreciative of the banger's participation and allow them to have their time in the sun. As long as there are no television advertising dollars available to fund the pro players' tournaments, the top players need to nurture the bangers' participation, not condemn their stinking luck.

Actually the better players should and often do, show some appreciation for a well fought battle by a banger, warts and all. It lifts the spirits of the bangers and they feel willing to invest their funds in the future.

If the game is so void of luck, and the bangers have NO CHANCE of winning or even competing or cashing or even having a good time, then what is the purpose of them investing their money in a tournament?

You can make the rules of these games so difficult that only the best of the best will win. How many of them are there? That'll make a really nice size tournament. Pro players, be careful what you wish for.

 

[sokaiba]

Actually, golf has gone backwards and is not pushing towards perfection and golf purists will tell you so......old irons had a sweet spot about the size of a dime, and drivers were wooden and had a much smaller sweet spot.....contact had to be perfect.....drivers today have HUGE sweet spots, and many pro players are using cavity back clubs which are more forgiving.....the golf balls of today make the game easier as well....also, golf courses have been redesigned and courses do not play as the architects intended them....

To make pool like golf, you'd simply move to a 10 foot table with 4 inch pockets.....this limits luck in all games you would play....

I just don't get all the anger around 9 ball......it's a game, with it's own set of rules, and it's a big reason so many people play pool today.....9 ball and 8 ball keep pool rooms open and make it possible for the bar owner to have those few 9 footers in the back so we can enjoy 14.1 and 1 pocket....

If you guys hate it, think about some of the great feats in pool.....games that people would call perfect, or close to perfect....

400+ in straight pool....
11-pack in 9 ball
5 pack in 8 ball
8 and out 3 times in a row in one pocket

Regardless of the game, these great players played the closest thing to perfect that many of us have seen......perfect pool in 9-ball is making a ball on 11 breaks, leaving a shot on the 1 ball, and running out 11 times in a row.....there might be a tiny bit of luck, but the skill level to do that is rediculous.....

Too many people associate perfect play with some type of defense or defensive game.....perfect players make every shot and hit their leave every time, defense is not a requirement.....pure pool is about pocketing balls effortlessly and the top players in 9 ball don't need much luck because they are that good....

All of the greats that you listed were because these guys have great fundamentals and don't need luck in their games. That's why they are some of the best players in history. High caliber 9 ball is a different game and is nearly played so well that you could use the rules I listed and still see the same results from the top players.

 

[cleary]

LOL.

9Ball the way it is played today, is NOT the way the game originally started out.

Two completely different worlds.

Before it was 2foul ball in hand.
Under those rules, the better player won a higher % of the time, even in closely contested matches.

When they went to Texas Express, they allowed for anyone to beat anyone on any given day.

You might want to rethink your position before you start dispensing with the history lessons.

No need to rethink... And for the record, I'm well away of pushout 9ball, thanks.

My dad always told me, "don't argue win an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." So, continue to think with your crazy logic. Good day sir.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

No need to rethink... And for the record, I'm well away of pushout 9ball, thanks.

My dad always told me, "don't argue win an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." So, continue to think with your crazy logic. Good day sir.

Thank you for your cooperation.
Good day.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

If that's true...why do we see the same players winning the same tournaments over and over? I would be willing to bet, that the same 10 players win the majority of the prize money in Major tournaments.

If there were well kept records, i am sure there would be less incidence of any one hit wonders during the time of 2FBIH, vs the modern day.

The cream is still going to rise to the top and the top professionals will still dominate, just 2FBIH keeps one hit wonders in check and takes them out of the running more so then not.

 

[timseal]

Ten-ball is definitely the way to go.
However:
1) A shot can appear to be lucky, but good players will have played it that way just in case. A subtle version of a two-way shot, if you will. There are people who just think everything is against them. If I miss and they aren't straight in on a hanger, then I must have got lucky (for the fifteenth time in a row). I once played several games against someone who constantly insisted that I was lucky, because I "just hit the ball and it flew right in the pocket!" (No cushions involved!)

2) What sports don't have luck? In soccer, should a goal be disallowed if it gets a big deflection? Does the striker have to "call goal"?
(and for fans of that horrible ten-ball misinterpretation, if I miss a penalty kick, should the other team get a penalty instead?)

3) If nine-ball is such a game of chance, (which compared to the other cue sports, it probably is) then why do the same people win so often? I think they __play_for_the_rolls__, maybe even down to a subconscious level.