The only way I will ever play 9 ball again...

[SUPERSTAR]

Again, you fail to see the forest for the trees.

Nobody ever wants to blame their OWN mistakes for why they lost, they want it to be someone/something else's fault. Luck is just one of those excuses.

What about the balls you missed? Bad safties? Missed kicks? Those are why you lost, not luck... If you take care of business AND DON'T GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO GET LUCKY, then luck won't affect the outcome of the game.

You can place the blame on "luck" as to why you lost a set, but you are only fooling yourself.

Now it's about players not being able to blame themselves for their mistakes?
Please.
Spare me.

Luck is a part of 9ball at all levels, and it SHOULDN'T be.
It's that simple.
Until the majority of luck is eliminated, 9ball will always be a garbage game.

 

[wutang]

hey, as long as you call that 10 rail, 3 carom, 4 ball combo, we straight mutha f****!

lol!!! Funny!!

 

[wutang]

we were watching two very good players match up last weekend and one of them crapped a two ball in. He apologized, and ran that rack and the next two to win the set. His oppponent said 'you wouldn't have won if you hadn't got lucky and made that two ball shot'.. He said 'yeah and the other 25 shots with shape in a row really didn't matter'...

lol!!! Good comeback!!!

 

[cleary]

Now it's about players not being able to blame themselves for their mistakes?
Please.
Spare me.

Yes, it is. That is exactly it. The more chances you give some to get lucky, the odds of him getting lucky increase. I don't expect you to understand this... but I hope someday you do.

 

[joey900rr]

I'm in between. I would like to at least see called nine ball.
Nothin worse then a 5 rail nine ball for the cash.
Spotting the 9 ball on the break , maybe. Also a shihtty way to lose.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Yes, it is. That is exactly it. The more chances you give some to get lucky, the odds of him getting lucky increase. I don't expect you to understand this... but I hope someday you do.

FAIL!
I guess it's over your head.
I cant help you sheep.

Maybe you should tie in your theory of more chances, with luck at the blackjack table, and see how THAT works out for ya.

Hahahahaha.

 

[FlackAttack]

Yes, it is. That is exactly it. The more chances you give some to get lucky, the odds of him getting lucky increase. I don't expect you to understand this... but I hope someday you do.

I totally agree. I've grown up around some great players and have hardly ever heard them complain about the hack that just two railed a ball on them. That is what hack does bang balls into rails and sometimes gets lucky. Good players rarely get lucky cause they are to busy running out. A banger might beat somebody in a tourney in a short race but he better stick to that format cause they will die broke gambling for the cash.

 

[Big Perm]

I love koolaid, sheep, and 9 ball.....where do I sign up?

Come on people.....while 9 ball isn't exactly my favorite, I play a decent amount of it.....I might "get lucky" one in 50 shots.....ie, a little unintended defense on a miss or a carom......playing any other game, I get the same deal, whether 8 ball, 1 pocket, or 14.1......luck is there and will always be there, in any game, and you cannot weed it out....

Why all the 9 ball hatred? Did it knock up your girlfriend or kill your dog?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I totally agree. I've grown up around some great players and have hardly ever heard them complain about the hack that just two railed a ball on them. That is what hack does bang balls into rails and sometimes gets lucky. Good players rarely get lucky cause they are to busy running out. A banger might beat somebody in a tourney in a short race but he better stick to that format cause they will die broke gambling for the cash.

Excellent timing for a YES MAN to join the club and post for the first time.

LOL.

 

[FlackAttack]

Excellent timing for a YES MAN to join the club and post for the first time.

LOL.

This yes man would like to play you some pool cause after reading your posts you must be getting drilled by some "lucky players". I love playing lucky players.:grin:

 

[SUPERSTAR]

This yes man would like to play you some pool cause after reading your posts you must be getting drilled by some "lucky players". I love playing lucky players.:grin:

And the yes man stays in character.
Now it's not about discussing the topic of luck, but instead it's about who is the better player.
As if anyone cares how well you play.
I can assure you that i don't.

But don't let that stop you from chirping.
Wouldn't want to ruin your grand entrance.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Earl winning five US Opens and several World Championships wasn't luck.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Earl winning five US Opens and several World Championships wasn't luck.

No one said that it was.

 

[deebee53]

The term luck needs to be defined and agreed upon before any meaningful arguments can be made for either side. Subjective words have been thrown all around this argument with the expectation that they are objective enough to make a point.

Case in point:

A lot of players would like to reduce "luck" by changing the rules. Some want to reduce it the point where the "best" player should always win. Now we have a real problem if the "best" player doesn't win. The "lesser" player must have gotten "lucky." Here comes that creepy, ambiguous luck sneaking back into our fantastic, luck-free game again. Tricky devil.

The losing player things that the other guy got "lucky" or that he got some "unlucky" breaks. The winning player thinks that he was the "best" player because he won the game that the "best" player should always win. Now we have two opposing views of the match, so who is wrong? Both have an opinion of what happened based upon a subjective interpretation of an event that is skewed by their initial desires about the outcome. Neither have posted a valid argument, so neither can be right.


One argument I will make is that 9 Ball's popularity is routed heavily in the variation of the game (or "luck" if you will). It's similar to poker in that regard. It happens all the time in poker where a player has a hand that wins 95% of the time and loses on the river. It adds a certain amount of excitement to the game because even though someone is supposed to win doesn't mean they do. It's one of the things that keeps crappy poker players and average pool players like me interested in the game.

9 Ball seems to be decent at mixing positive shooter variation (like slop) with skill. Do I like when someone slops in the 9 on me? No. But I have never given a game back because a ball dropped on a double bank either.

 

[deebee53]

No one said that it was.

I am completely confused as to what your point is.

You seem to be saying that "luck" plays too big a part in 9Ball but the higher skilled players consistently win in the long run.

These seem like conflicting ideas to me.

 

[AtLarge]

... luck is there and will always be there, in any game, and you cannot weed it out....

Right, but we could sure pull some of the biggest weeds. I'm compelled to repeat stuff I posted a while ago:

No, you can't totally eliminate the luck element, but you can try to minimize it. The purpose of a pool competition should be to identify and reward the person (or persons) who is (are) playing the most skillfully during that event. Excitement for the audience should not be the objective in most competitions; in fact, such excitement sometimes results from ignorance. A three-rail kick safety is beautiful and exciting; a 10-on-the-break for a win is disgusting.

People often argue that "luck evens out," or winning on a lucky shot, such as a slop-in, is so rare among top players that we shouldn't worry about it. Well, luck may even out over a lifetime, but it need not do so in any given match or tournament. And it's the rareness of the lucky shot that makes it so much more critical. If it happened every second shot, then both players in a match would benefit and suffer fairly equally. But when it happens only rarely, it becomes enormous and can really mean the difference between winning and losing.

I'm sure that everyone who has played a lot has both won and lost a ton of matches because of purely lucky shots -- 9-ball or 10-ball on the break or slopping in a key ball. A loss that way is agonizing. A win that way is less than fulfilling. It would be so easy to eliminate some of the game's pernicious luck.​

 

[cleary]

FAIL!
Maybe you should tie in your theory of more chances, with luck at the blackjack table, and see how THAT works out for ya.

Really??? Are you serious? WOW...

Anything I say to you or have said in the past, has been a waste of time. I'm sorry, to myself, for wasting my time trying to have a logical case.My only "fail" is assuming you could understand.

 

[FlackAttack]

I've played lots of players that will only play a rotation game every once in awhile but are also pretty solid 8 ball players that will run multiple racks quite often but get them to play rotation and they can't get out. They cant make long shots and have no idea how to use two and three rails to get shape. The same players complain about the luck when in fact they just wont put the time into learning how to play the right side of the ball and if they did they would improve their 8 ball game also. If you like rotation games but don't like the "luck" play pushout.

 

[TheVirus]

Why not just play 8 ball..?

 

[gmillioni]

improving 9 ball

to kai: yes i am an old time 9 ball player and i agree it would make the game more skill worthy by taking away ball in hand, spotting balls, and playing from the kitchen, call pocket, call nine ball etc.. TE, alternating breaks, and shot clocks is all for the TV guys. that said let me agree with those who say the better player should win over the long haul. when you watch the top notch players rarely do you see something called luck. most everything they shoot at has a plan, or strategy to it. drop down about two levels of play and yes in all games there is more "luck" of the roll involved but is rarely the deciding element in the overall game. IMHO luck is when the other guy actually misses a shot that i have seen them make over and over, or they jaw the money ball, or they go for a tough shot and not play safe instead, that is my luck.

there are tougher games to be played, certainly 1P and high run 14:1 are definitely a challenge. what i like about 14:1 is that its great practice for all games and is equally as challenging when played alone.

thanks for letting me sound off. gerald