the problem with pool and the mainstream

smokeandapancak

smokeandapancak

what?
Silver Member
Another thread got me to thinking about some of the inconsistiencies with pool over all, so instead of posting in that thread I thought I might throw this out there for you al to think about. I cut the following out of one of my other post................

This does however bring to light the main thing that I think is wrong with pool today. there is'nt a "set" anything. different games are played with different rules in different areas... Bar rules, APA, BCA, 7ft, 10 ft, simoinis, champion, 4 1/2 inch pockets, 4 3/4 inch, k55 rails, k66 rails...jump cues allowed, jump cues banned.... yadda yadda yadda.....

At somepoint there has to be a final say. Somebody somwhere needs to set the standard and that standard needs to enforced. Equipment repersents only on part of what I am talking about here.
Or is the problem that pool is a gambler's game and just not meant for the GP to "get"?
 
In the mid 1980's, this was a hot topic between the professional players. EVERYBODY seemed to be complaining about there being no standard set of regulations or rules, to include the equipment.

I can provide references to what Lou Butera, Steve Mizerak, Jim Rempe, and Bill Staton said about this very topic.

Things haven't changed much, have they?

JAM
 
So what is the deal?
I am not as familar with the upper end of the pool world as you are.. so I have to ask why doesnt anybody pick up the ball and run with it.. fix the problem...
I know the IPT is a bad word around here, but the premise has some weight. Real Pool ,Real Rules.. blah blah...

Its kind of a "chicken or the egg argument".. do we want a world famous tour that millions watch, to set the standard or de we need the standard set in order for people to follow a tour and know all of the rules?
 
smokeandapancak said:
So what is the deal?
I am not as familar with the upper end of the pool world as you are.. so I have to ask why doesnt anybody pick up the ball and run with it.. fix the problem...
I know the IPT is a bad word around here, but the premise has some weight. Real Pool ,Real Rules.. blah blah...

Its kind of a "chicken or the egg argument".. do we want a world famous tour that millions watch, to set the standard or de we need the standard set in order for people to follow a tour and know all of the rules?
Click to expand...

Until there is a pool organization which provides a level playing field and is TRANSPARENT -- meaning the rules are written in stone and not changed willy nilly at each event to accommodate certain players -- with established rules that are adhered to by the organization, to include the ranking system, it is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

I do not think it is fair that some pool players are allowed to arrive whenever they feel like at a pool tournament, when all others must be present for the players meeting. EVERY player should be treated equal. This happens all the time, though.

Some people got really upset by the IPT happenings. Players from the 1980s era have seen pool organizations and sponsorships come and go, and for a variety of reasons. So the IPT was not as shocking to them as it may have been to others.

One thing that the IPT did do right was to have a ranking systems based on REAL RULES, and guess what, ALL PLAYERS WERE TREATED EQUAL. There was no favoritism when it came to dress code, showing up for the match, equipment, et cetera. This was a step in the right direction, IMHO.

Like Hopkins, Sigel, and others have done, sad to say, there sometimes comes a point when competing in professional pool is no longer an option anymore if you have to keep a roof over your head, especially with today's political climate that allows players to get selected to compete in high-profile events based on paying 100 bucks to an organization and/or personal friendships with pool promoter(s).

The WPBA, the women's governing body of professional pool, is the real deal. It is a shame there is not a similar organization of this magnitude for American male professionals.

I still believe with all my heart that if a celebrity status could be established for a pool player a la Minnesota Fats style, then pool would attract the attention of mainstream America. THEN the competitions on American TV may enjoy a new popularity, folks tuning in to catch up on who's doing what and how well are they playing. To date, the pool players on TV seem robotic and boring to John Q. Public in America, and so they tune out.

Of course, surely you remember the incident with Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding in ice skating. This helped to elevate the sport and attract interest, even though it was an unfortunate incident.

Pool today in America is a game for league players, social shooters, and bar bangers. I mean, even the cue-makers in America have to take their wares overseas to sell because most pool players in America -- again, the social shooters, bar bangers, and league players -- do not want to spend more than a couple hundred bucks for a cue stick.

Even though pool, IMHO, was considered popular at one time in America, attracting players from around the world to take up residence here so they could compete in American events, the TREND will soon be pool leaving American soil altogether with the majority of events being held overseas. The existing lot of American professional players is continuing to diminish. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
 
smokeandapancak said:
So what is the deal?
I am not as familar with the upper end of the pool world as you are.. so I have to ask why doesnt anybody pick up the ball and run with it.. fix the problem...
I know the IPT is a bad word around here, but the premise has some weight. Real Pool ,Real Rules.. blah blah...

Its kind of a "chicken or the egg argument".. do we want a world famous tour that millions watch, to set the standard or de we need the standard set in order for people to follow a tour and know all of the rules?
Click to expand...

As a promoter, we each have our own philosophies on how the game should be played in some way, or how best to make the sport fit TV. Although I believe it can get ridiculous at times - like we have limits on bathroom breaks in the Philippines which seems to mystify foreigners to no end but makes perfect sense to us, or the no phenolic tip rule in the IPT - the heart of rules and equipment standards are already starting to settle down due to big world tournaments like the WPC. Top players are now able to demand a bit from their promoters the standards that they're accustomed to from other competitions. Tight pockets are now competition standard in Asia and the Brunswick Metro is the standard table for Asian competitions. There are however issues that won't go away, such as imperfect 9-ball racking by inexperienced technical crews, but those will be solved in time.
 
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cuycuy said:
As a promoter, we each have our own philosophies on how the game should be played in some way, or how best to make the sport fit TV. Although I believe it can get ridiculous at times - like we have limits on bathroom breaks in the Philippines which seems to mystify foreigners to no end but makes perfect sense to us, or the no phenolic tip rule in the IPT - the heart of rules and equipment standards are already starting to settle down due to big world tournaments like the WPC. Top players are now able to demand a bit from their promoters the standards that they're accustomed to from other competitions. Tight pockets are now competition standard in Asia and the Brunswick Metro is the standard table for Asian competitions. There are however issues that won't go away, such as imperfect 9-ball racking by inexperienced technical crews, but those will be solved in time.
Click to expand...


See thats what I am saying ...everybody does it differently...subtle differences arent that big a deal..things like bathroom brakes are one of those things.... but things like phenolic tips, jump cues, cloth,pockets,balls are big deals.
Golf has gotten a hold of the equipment issue with very strict guidelines....and companies work within those rules..they push it to the limit but they stay in the lines. Why cant we do the same?

I really think that if somebody steps up then they can make it happen...maybe someone with the wpba can start a mens leauge that runs under the same ideals as the wpba...

I sthere any such thing as a players union? .... the would most likley be the right place to start. If the players get together and demand equal treatment and equal playing fields then we might see something change. Has that been tried before?
 
JAM said:
.

Pool today in America is a game for league players, social shooters, and bar bangers. I mean, even the cue-makers in America have to take their wares overseas to sell because most pool players in America -- again, the social shooters, bar bangers, and league players -- do not want to spend more than a couple hundred bucks for a cue stick.

Even though pool, IMHO, was considered popular at one time in America, attracting players from around the world to take up residence here so they could compete in American events, the TREND will soon be pool leaving American soil altogether with the majority of events being held overseas. The existing lot of American professional players is continuing to diminish. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
Click to expand...

JAM,
It is apparent by your posts on topics such as these that you have a chip on your shoulder when discussing the problems of professional pool in America, and rightfully so considering your involvement with the touring pros, one in particular. But you gotta understand, it's not important for all poolplayers in this country that ANY professional player ever makes a dime at shooting pool. I've been shooting pool and greatly enjoying the game for over 40 years. I have not once gambled. The most I ever made in a tournament was $100 and that money was turned around into a bar tab. I personally wouldn't care if there wasn't even the existence of professional pool. I feel the same way about professional football, baseball, basketball, etc. There are many others in this country who feel like I do. If I wanna watch some good pool being played, I can go to any one of three or four halls/rooms within a 30 minute drive from my house and see all the good pool I want to, for free. In this money-driven country it seems that everybody with ANY kind of skill whatsoever thinks they should be able to turn a profit for being good at something. Many pro pool players are no different. It's just a game! Sure there are some that play it WAY better than the vast majority, but that holds true for any endeavor in this world. Take the hot-dog eating contest for example (which, by the way, is televised on ESPN, just like pool). One guy stands head-and-shoulders above the rest when it comes to stuffing soggy hot dogs down his guzzle. Do you think he ought to get rich for doing this? I don't and I doubt that you do either. But, he is making money for doing it. Now, what if there became a "Hot-Dog Eating Pro Tour"? Would you think that these participants should start earning a living for eating a butt-load of hot dogs? No? And why not, because you don't suscribe to this particular endeavor or participate in it yourself? The point I'm trying to make here is that there are a lot of your self described "bar bangers", "social shooters", and "league players" that don't give a rat's a$$ if anyone out there ever makes a dime off of shooting pool. All they wanna do is enjoy the game in their own little enviroment. And BTW, many of these aforementioned players don't want to spend more than a "couple hundred bucks for a cue stick" because they simply can't afford to. Plus the fact that why should they? A $150-$200 cue stick is gonna work just fine for what they want it for. A $1000 stick ain't gonna turn 'em into Keith McCready ;) for cryin' out loud.
JAM, I'm not posting this maliciously to get under your skin. I can see your point about the professional pool scene. If I was in your boat, I would feel the same way. But I'm not in your boat and neither are thousands upon thousands of other recreational shooters in this country. And although it makes me no difference, I DO hope that things get better for professional pool here in America as I believe that if somebody can make a living at anything legal, then more power to them.
Good luck in your future. Hang in there!!!

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
JAM,
It is apparent by your posts on topics such as these that you have a chip on your shoulder when discussing the problems of professional pool in America, and rightfully so considering your involvement with the touring pros, one in particular. But you gotta understand, it's not important for all poolplayers in this country that ANY professional player ever makes a dime at shooting pool. I've been shooting pool and greatly enjoying the game for over 40 years. I have not once gambled. The most I ever made in a tournament was $100 and that money was turned around into a bar tab. I personally wouldn't care if there wasn't even the existence of professional pool. I feel the same way about professional football, baseball, basketball, etc. There are many others in this country who feel like I do. If I wanna watch some good pool being played, I can go to any one of three or four halls/rooms within a 30 minute drive from my house and see all the good pool I want to, for free. In this money-driven country it seems that everybody with ANY kind of skill whatsoever thinks they should be able to turn a profit for being good at something. Many pro pool players are no different. It's just a game! Sure there are some that play it WAY better than the vast majority, but that holds true for any endeavor in this world. Take the hot-dog eating contest for example (which, by the way, is televised on ESPN, just like pool). One guy stands head-and-shoulders above the rest when it comes to stuffing soggy hot dogs down his guzzle. Do you think he ought to get rich for doing this? I don't and I doubt that you do either. But, he is making money for doing it. Now, what if there became a "Hot-Dog Eating Pro Tour"? Would you think that these participants should start earning a living for eating a butt-load of hot dogs? No? And why not, because you don't suscribe to this particular endeavor or participate in it yourself? The point I'm trying to make here is that there are a lot of your self described "bar bangers", "social shooters", and "league players" that don't give a rat's a$$ if anyone out there ever makes a dime off of shooting pool. All they wanna do is enjoy the game in their own little enviroment. And BTW, many of these aforementioned players don't want to spend more than a "couple hundred bucks for a cue stick" because they simply can't afford to. Plus the fact that why should they? A $150-$200 cue stick is gonna work just fine for what they want it for. A $1000 stick ain't gonna turn 'em into Keith McCready ;) for cryin' out loud.
JAM, I'm not posting this maliciously to get under your skin. I can see your point about the professional pool scene. If I was in your boat, I would feel the same way. But I'm not in your boat and neither are thousands upon thousands of other recreational shooters in this country. And although it makes me no difference, I DO hope that things get better for professional pool here in America as I believe that if somebody can make a living at anything legal, then more power to them.
Good luck in your future. Hang in there!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

And your post, my friend, Maniac, truly does represent how the majority of Americans feel about the discipline of pocket billiards.

You are 100-percent correct. Mainstream America does not seem to be interested in professional pool, which is why pool in America as a sport has one tire in the sand.

Go to an Asian-Pacific Islander country and check out the interest in pool, to include the social shooters, league players, and bar bangers. Pool is televised LIVE on national TV in other countries, and pool players in overseas countries gobble up American-made custom cues and do not have any problem paying $1,000-plus for one.

Professional pool in America needs a boost, much like what happend with TCOM and Hustler came to the fore. In addition, celebrity figures like Willie Mosconi, Steve Mizerak, and Minnesota Fats helped attract mainstream America to pocket billiards. When this happens, then non-pool-related industry members, i.e., sponsors, bring in sorely needed monies to help elevate the sport. To date, the American pool industry can only bring in so much monies. Without outside dollars, pool continues to suffer with low payouts and high expenses for the professional player.

In sum, most people feel exactly as you do, Maniac. Do I have a chip on my shoulder today? I brushed off the chip in September 2006. Today, my concentration is geared in another direction in the pool industry because the opportunities in professional pool for a professional player just ain't what they used to be.

In the year 2007 if one chooses pool as a profession, they had been not quit their day job unless, of course, they can endure living a lifestyle of traveling hundreds of miles every single month attending two, three, and four events, and if you don't come in first, second, or third place, you never break even.

JAM
 
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There is just so many things wrong with pro pool that I could make a list that would look like the dead mans scroll. Johnnyt
 
> The point I'm trying to make here is that there are a lot of your self described "bar bangers", "social shooters", and "league players" that don't give a rat's a$$ if anyone out there ever makes a dime off of shooting pool. All they wanna do is enjoy the game in their own little enviroment. <

That kind of thinkin' has ruined pool...and politics! Namby pamby momma's boys don't inspire. Better to be from the Roosevelt school, 'walk softly and carry a big stick'.
 
I see it like Jam. The only way to START getting pool on mainstream track is to have an organization. This would have to start at the bottom with amateur tours, region tours, and pro tours. The only way to fund this is if a sugar daddy comes along and drops millions of dollars to try and get it going or the above players have to pay dues to one organization. I don’t see either one happening anytime soon.

I’ve said all along that a men tour should pattern itself after the WPBA. But don’t forget it took them thirty years to get to where their at now. There are just too many people pulling in different directions to make it work. Johnnyt
 
AzDave said:
That kind of thinkin' has ruined pool...
Click to expand...

Ruined pool :eek: ??? For who :confused: ??? Last I heard it's still way high on the list for participation sports in this country! Hell, it could still be the #1 most participated-in sport for all I know (admittedly, I don't know a whole hell of a lot :o ), as it once was. Millions of people nationwide are engaged in the game of pool every day. Ruined??? Far from it, Dave! On the contrary, it seems to me that the pool industry as a whole is holding it's own judging from all the pool-related businesses I see around my area and on the internet.
I don't know about you Dave, but me and a slew of other acquaintances I happen to hang with STILL enjoy the game on a regular basis. It's gonna be around for a hell of a long time. It's far from ruined!

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
Ruined pool :eek: ??? For who :confused: ??? Last I heard it's still way high on the list for participation sports in this country! Hell, it could still be the #1 most participated-in sport for all I know (admittedly, I don't know a whole hell of a lot :o ), as it once was. Millions of people nationwide are engaged in the game of pool every day. Ruined??? Far from it, Dave! On the contrary, it seems to me that the pool industry as a whole is holding it's own judging from all the pool-related businesses I see around my area and on the internet.
I don't know about you Dave, but me and a slew of other acquaintances I happen to hang with STILL enjoy the game on a regular basis. It's gonna be around for a hell of a long time. It's far from ruined!

Maniac
Click to expand...

I hear ya', Maniac. :)

I think what you are referring to is pool as a recreational GAME, and what JohnnyT and AzDave speak about is pool as a competitive SPORT played by professionals. Two different animals, I would respectfully submit! :p

JAM
 
JAM,
It is apparent by your posts on topics such as these that you have a chip on your shoulder when discussing the problems of professional pool in America, and rightfully so considering your involvement with the touring pros, one in particular. But you gotta understand, it's not important for all poolplayers in this country that ANY professional player ever makes a dime at shooting pool. I've been shooting pool and greatly enjoying the game for over 40 years. I have not once gambled. The most I ever made in a tournament was $100 and that money was turned around into a bar tab. I personally wouldn't care if there wasn't even the existence of professional pool. I feel the same way about professional football, baseball, basketball, etc. There are many others in this country who feel like I do. If I wanna watch some good pool being played, I can go to any one of three or four halls/rooms within a 30 minute drive from my house and see all the good pool I want to, for free. In this money-driven country it seems that everybody with ANY kind of skill whatsoever thinks they should be able to turn a profit for being good at something. Many pro pool players are no different. It's just a game! Sure there are some that play it WAY better than the vast majority, but that holds true for any endeavor in this world. Take the hot-dog eating contest for example (which, by the way, is televised on ESPN, just like pool). One guy stands head-and-shoulders above the rest when it comes to stuffing soggy hot dogs down his guzzle. Do you think he ought to get rich for doing this? I don't and I doubt that you do either. But, he is making money for doing it. Now, what if there became a "Hot-Dog Eating Pro Tour"? Would you think that these participants should start earning a living for eating a butt-load of hot dogs? No? And why not, because you don't suscribe to this particular endeavor or participate in it yourself? The point I'm trying to make here is that there are a lot of your self described "bar bangers", "social shooters", and "league players" that don't give a rat's a$$ if anyone out there ever makes a dime off of shooting pool. All they wanna do is enjoy the game in their own little enviroment. And BTW, many of these aforementioned players don't want to spend more than a "couple hundred bucks for a cue stick" because they simply can't afford to. Plus the fact that why should they? A $150-$200 cue stick is gonna work just fine for what they want it for. A $1000 stick ain't gonna turn 'em into Keith McCready for cryin' out loud.
JAM, I'm not posting this maliciously to get under your skin. I can see your point about the professional pool scene. If I was in your boat, I would feel the same way. But I'm not in your boat and neither are thousands upon thousands of other recreational shooters in this country. And although it makes me no difference, I DO hope that things get better for professional pool here in America as I believe that if somebody can make a living at anything legal, then more power to them.
Good luck in your future. Hang in there!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

whilst i can see where you're coming from and it does make sense, the problem is you can't help but naturally compare pool with other sports. i make no bones about it, pool and football are pretty much the only two sports i like (and am extremely passionate about). so i look at such a huge list of mainstream sports, which to me the majority of which are crap, and ask myself, "Why does the likes of cricket, rounders (baseball), golf!, rugby etc manage to have got themselves so popular and in such a healthy position. is pool inferior to these sports? No, so hence why so many people in the pool community are questioning and discussing how to improve the state of pool.

as for the original point about lack of consistency, i agree. it's bad enough in a way that 'pool' in itself is a generic name and not specific. so it beccomes even more complicated explaining to some ignoramus who thinks snooker is the only cuesport in the world (a problem in england).
 
Not quite on topic but not off either:

Can anyone think of a game or major sport that was huge and then almost completely died out? I can't, but I'm young and dunno how to research something like that. I know some games have changed beyond recognition (pool maybe is a good example).

I don't think it's ever gonna die so it seems like we shouldn't wring our hands too much. The popularity of sports seems to come and go in cycles. Good organization and marketing helps, but ultimately it boils down to little things beyond our control, or bits of luck. The last big surges in pool came from movies. That seems so random... it seems like pool will rise or fall due to things that we probably can't even guess at, and without any regard for how much care we put into something like standardizing the rules & equipment. The casual spectator doesn't know or care about those things, and they're the ones who define how popular it is.
 
JAM said:
Until there is a pool organization which provides a level playing field and is TRANSPARENT -- meaning the rules are written in stone and not changed willy nilly at each event to accommodate certain players -- with established rules that are adhered to by the organization, to include the ranking system, it is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

I do not think it is fair that some pool players are allowed to arrive whenever they feel like at a pool tournament, when all others must be present for the players meeting. EVERY player should be treated equal. This happens all the time, though.

Some people got really upset by the IPT happenings. Players from the 1980s era have seen pool organizations and sponsorships come and go, and for a variety of reasons. So the IPT was not as shocking to them as it may have been to others.

One thing that the IPT did do right was to have a ranking systems based on REAL RULES, and guess what, ALL PLAYERS WERE TREATED EQUAL. There was no favoritism when it came to dress code, showing up for the match, equipment, et cetera. This was a step in the right direction, IMHO.

Like Hopkins, Sigel, and others have done, sad to say, there sometimes comes a point when competing in professional pool is no longer an option anymore if you have to keep a roof over your head, especially with today's political climate that allows players to get selected to compete in high-profile events based on paying 100 bucks to an organization and/or personal friendships with pool promoter(s).

The WPBA, the women's governing body of professional pool, is the real deal. It is a shame there is not a similar organization of this magnitude for American male professionals.

I still believe with all my heart that if a celebrity status could be established for a pool player a la Minnesota Fats style, then pool would attract the attention of mainstream America. THEN the competitions on American TV may enjoy a new popularity, folks tuning in to catch up on who's doing what and how well are they playing. To date, the pool players on TV seem robotic and boring to John Q. Public in America, and so they tune out.

Of course, surely you remember the incident with Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding in ice skating. This helped to elevate the sport and attract interest, even though it was an unfortunate incident.

Pool today in America is a game for league players, social shooters, and bar bangers. I mean, even the cue-makers in America have to take their wares overseas to sell because most pool players in America -- again, the social shooters, bar bangers, and league players -- do not want to spend more than a couple hundred bucks for a cue stick.

Even though pool, IMHO, was considered popular at one time in America, attracting players from around the world to take up residence here so they could compete in American events, the TREND will soon be pool leaving American soil altogether with the majority of events being held overseas. The existing lot of American professional players is continuing to diminish. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
Click to expand...


tap , tap, tap

nice avatar but are times so tough you could'nt have taken a pic of a full Yard? lol;)
 
CreeDo said:
Not quite on topic but not off either:

Can anyone think of a game or major sport that was huge and then almost completely died out?
Click to expand...

Horse racing would be on its last legs except that the politicians have seen fit to let the tracks run casinos which subsidize the purse money.
 
JAM said:
I hear ya', Maniac. :)

I think what you are referring to is pool as a recreational GAME, and what JohnnyT and AzDave speak about is pool as a competitive SPORT played by professionals. Two different animals, I would respectfully submit! :p

JAM
Click to expand...

We're talking semantics here. The game of baseball (to which it is commonly referred) is most definitely a sport. Whether it is played in Yankee Stadium or on a sandlot by a bunch of 12 year olds it can still be referred to as a "game" of baseball. Pool, IMO, is no different. It is still the same game (or sport) no matter if professionals are playing it or a bunch of no-talent cockroaches like me are playing it. It really doesn't matter what you call it, it doesn't change the game. I can't believe that there are people out there that still get their undies all in a wad over this subject (I'm NOT referring to you JAM). I see your point about the two different styles of play and all, but equating it to other sports, I still don't see what difference it makes what tag someone wants to place on pool.
BTW, I am glad you got the chip off your shoulder back in '06. I truly hope your endeavors in pool take an upward turn for you and yours in the near future. Good luck and good shooting!!!

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
It is still the same game (or sport) no matter if professionals are playing it or a bunch of no-talent cockroaches like me are playing it.

Maniac
Click to expand...

You are selling yourself very short there indeed my friend. And definitely not a cockroach either!:)
 
Maniac said:
JAM,
It is apparent by your posts on topics such as these that you have a chip on your shoulder when discussing the problems of professional pool in America, and rightfully so considering your involvement with the touring pros, one in particular. But you gotta understand, it's not important for all poolplayers in this country that ANY professional player ever makes a dime at shooting pool. I've been shooting pool and greatly enjoying the game for over 40 years. I have not once gambled. The most I ever made in a tournament was $100 and that money was turned around into a bar tab. I personally wouldn't care if there wasn't even the existence of professional pool. I feel the same way about professional football, baseball, basketball, etc. There are many others in this country who feel like I do. If I wanna watch some good pool being played, I can go to any one of three or four halls/rooms within a 30 minute drive from my house and see all the good pool I want to, for free. In this money-driven country it seems that everybody with ANY kind of skill whatsoever thinks they should be able to turn a profit for being good at something. Many pro pool players are no different. It's just a game! Sure there are some that play it WAY better than the vast majority, but that holds true for any endeavor in this world. Take the hot-dog eating contest for example (which, by the way, is televised on ESPN, just like pool). One guy stands head-and-shoulders above the rest when it comes to stuffing soggy hot dogs down his guzzle. Do you think he ought to get rich for doing this? I don't and I doubt that you do either. But, he is making money for doing it.

Now, what if there became a "Hot-Dog Eating Pro Tour"? Would you think that these participants should start earning a living for eating a butt-load of hot dogs? No? And why not, because you don't suscribe to this particular endeavor or participate in it yourself? The point I'm trying to make here is that there are a lot of your self described "bar bangers", "social shooters", and "league players" that don't give a rat's a$$ if anyone out there ever makes a dime off of shooting pool. All they wanna do is enjoy the game in their own little enviroment. And BTW, many of these aforementioned players don't want to spend more than a "couple hundred bucks for a cue stick" because they simply can't afford to. Plus the fact that why should they? A $150-$200 cue stick is gonna work just fine for what they want it for. A $1000 stick ain't gonna turn 'em into Keith McCready ;) for cryin' out loud.
JAM, I'm not posting this maliciously to get under your skin. I can see your point about the professional pool scene. If I was in your boat, I would feel the same way. But I'm not in your boat and neither are thousands upon thousands of other recreational shooters in this country. And although it makes me no difference, I DO hope that things get better for professional pool here in America as I believe that if somebody can make a living at anything legal, then more power to them.
Good luck in your future. Hang in there!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

be careful here maniac.your up against 'city hall'but i like you play for recreation i have a 4x8 brunswick and play for hours.never will i be more than a c player....wow giving myself way to much credit lol but the game is as you said for us wanna bes it is purely a game of fun. i get so sick of people trying to hustle that i wont frequent pool halls .i dont drink so bar rooms have no appeal either so i get to stay in my own little world[ home] and compete with wimpy every day of my life .and when i did meet him back in the early 70's i was blessed .may he rest in peace,.may all your breaks be monsters maniac god bless
 
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