The runout

[sfleinen]

Can it be considered somewhat easier to run out in 8B since you're free to shoot any ball in your color group?

*IF* (big stipulation here) your opponent's balls weren't still on the table, yes. That is to say, if your opponent tried to runout, and failed, leaving you a Marianas turkey shoot, yes, it is easier to runout in 8-ball, because as like the die-hard 9-ballers like to say, "you can shoot at any ball you want."

If (and the more likely scenario) however, your opponent's balls are still on the table, and you're trying to navigate around them, the runout is actually more difficult, especially as you start clearing your category off the table. Unless you plan your run so perfectly such that each shot is a stop shot, the deeper you get into your run, the more difficult it becomes to get position on the last couple balls, and finally, the 8-ball itself.

To me it's a wash and completely depends on how the balls spread after the break.

That is the case with *any* game. I've seen "breaking safe" happen in any game, including 14.1 -- where the break ball was pocketed beautifully, the rack opened up, but the shooter was left no shot.

The real challenge would be to play 8B and finish your color group in rotation.

I agree. But I don't know how common this is, because of the difficulty of execution. Remember, unlike 9-ball where there are no "off-limits opponent's balls," you would have to contend with navigating around your opponent's ball category, in addition to running out your category in rotation. Add the variable of the break into this, and you have probably one of the most difficult games on the green playing surface to execute runouts in. That would most definitely be a safety game, for sure.

-Sean

 

[Bob Jewett]

It's not on an 8-foot table, but is does give some idea about 8-ball runouts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j0fTOFD_oo

 

[RunoutJJ]

9 ball players (B+ level or higher) has a huge advantage over any high level 8 ball player. Sorry but 8 ball is more of a amateur game when it comes to playing runout pool. A lot of C-B level players can runout a 8 ball rack wayyy more often than a 9 ball rack regardless of table size.

Like said above in 8 ball you have up to 6 different shots as to 9 ball where you MAY have 2 at best. Plus in 9 ball you have to play shape on only one ball and not have more than one runout plan.

So when it comes down to it 8 ball is just plain easier (tight pockets or not) than 9 ball.

I love it when people think that since there are less balls than 8 ball that nine ball is way easier. Right after they say this I usually ask how much they want to play for.. As high as you want :groucho:

 

[fastone371]

Right now 8 ball is much easier for me to runout on, although I do not get to play 9 ball nearly as much as 8 ball. What seems to always get me in 9 ball is if you get on the wrong side of object ball just once it seems to be extremely tough to get back on track. I hope when I get some more 9 ball time in this problem starts to go away for me.

 

[alstl]

Depends on the layout and whether the opponent's balls are on the table in 8 ball.

 

[mantis99]

I think a person's answer will depend somewhat on their skill level. An open 8 ball table leaves the player more options to shoot in case they get out of line, which lower level players do often. However, their is more clutter to manage on an 8 ball table, making it harder to come across runout tables. 9 ball gives only 1 option to shoot for the most part, and requires much more speed and cue ball control, but has much less clutter. Most players don't have the speed or cue ball control to run a 9 ball table except for the lucky runout every now and then, so they will answer 8 ball. The accomplished player with good CB control doesn't mind the need for position play, and can runout with a high percentage with an open table. Being that it is easier to find one in 9 ball, they will likely answer 9 ball. So when you start to think it is easier to run out in 9 ball than 8 ball, then you know you are becoming a good player. I voted 8 ball in the poll.

 

[RRfireblade]

Right after they say this I usually ask how much they want to play for.. As high as you want :groucho:

They make me L-O-L :lol:

You and me both.


Doyeeeeeeeeee.

 

[Banks]

9 ball players (B+ level or higher) has a huge advantage over any high level 8 ball player. Sorry but 8 ball is more of a amateur game when it comes to playing runout pool. A lot of C-B level players can runout a 8 ball rack wayyy more often than a 9 ball rack regardless of table size.

Like said above in 8 ball you have up to 6 different shots as to 9 ball where you MAY have 2 at best. Plus in 9 ball you have to play shape on only one ball and not have more than one runout plan.

So when it comes down to it 8 ball is just plain easier (tight pockets or not) than 9 ball.

I love it when people think that since there are less balls than 8 ball that nine ball is way easier. Right after they say this I usually ask how much they want to play for.. As high as you want :groucho:

8 *can* be easier than 9, because the lesser players have more options when they screw up. When you know how to play 9 well, it can be much easier than 8 because of a lack of work needed(shoot, leave, shoot, leave, etc). If you can't play well, 8 allows you options when your original plans go awry.

When I'm faced with a better opponent, I'd much rather play 8 than 9, because I have a better idea of managing the layout and moving around the table as opposed to trying to out-shoot a better player rack after rack in 9.

I can hang with better players in 8b and banks.. wanna play some?

PS - I can't quite recall any new rules being made for breaking to be made more difficult in 8, so why the restrictions(no soft breaks, break box) in 9?

Edit: I didn't vote for either, because it changes as levels progress imho.

 

[acousticsguru]

Although I play and like all pool games, 8-Ball tends to be my strongest, even so, I'd have to say 9-Ball is the easiest to run out. Strangely enough, my personal record stringing racks is in 10-Ball (apart from, needless to emphasize, Straight Pool), but my 9-Ball record at minus one game compared to 10-Ball felt like a piece of cake in comparison. 9-Ball is definitely the easiest game of all - which is not to say it isn't tough…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Banks]

Although I play and like all pool games, 8-Ball tends to be my strongest, even so, I'd have to say 9-Ball is the easiest to run out. Strangely enough, my personal record stringing racks is in 10-Ball (apart, needless to emphasize, Straight Pool), but my 9-Ball record at minus one game compared to 10-Ball felt like a piece of cake in comparison. 9-Ball is definitely the easiest game of all - which is not to say it isn't tough…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I'm not sure if others were paying attention to TAR's break stats, but I sure was:

26% BnR in 10, 23% in 8, even though a ball was made on the break more often in 8 and open on the break. Just imagine if it were 9 instead of 10.

 

[CreeDo]

There's kind of an important detail missing:
When you say "easier to run out" do you mean easier to break'n'run? Or easier to run out, only after a ball has dropped?

If we're counting breaks as part of the runout, 9 ball has an advantage. According to most of the old accu-stats catalogs I've seen, one a pro player has a look at the 1 ball, he should get out roughly 70% of the time. And a ball should drop on the break (if it's a perfect rack) something like 90% of the time.

Whereas in 8 ball, I'd say a ball drops only 70ish percent of the time. I dunno how often a pro gets out once they have a legit look... but the IPT showed break'n'run stats are much lower than what people seem to think.

Still, nine ball racks always feel like more work to me, and more unforgiving of errors.

 

[Masayoshi]

There's kind of an important detail missing:
When you say "easier to run out" do you mean easier to break'n'run? Or easier to run out, only after a ball has dropped?

If we're counting breaks as part of the runout, 9 ball has an advantage. According to most of the old accu-stats catalogs I've seen, one a pro player has a look at the 1 ball, he should get out roughly 70% of the time. And a ball should drop on the break (if it's a perfect rack) something like 90% of the time.

Whereas in 8 ball, I'd say a ball drops only 70ish percent of the time. I dunno how often a pro gets out once they have a legit look... but the IPT showed break'n'run stats are much lower than what people seem to think.

Still, nine ball racks always feel like more work to me, and more unforgiving of errors.

Didn't the IPT show the opposite? I think Bustamante, Morris, and maybe some others were well over 40%. I doubt you will find a 9/10 ball tournament where somebody averages 40% break and runs throughout the whole tournament.

Obviously if you take the overall stats of the tournament, it will be lower because there were many less than world class players in the tournament.

 

[americanfighter]

i would have to say 9 ball because of the opponent object balls getting in the way and having to work around them.

 

[PGHteacher]

9 ball players (B+ level or higher) has a huge advantage over any high level 8 ball player. Sorry but 8 ball is more of a amateur game when it comes to playing runout pool. A lot of C-B level players can runout a 8 ball rack wayyy more often than a 9 ball rack regardless of table size.

Like said above in 8 ball you have up to 6 different shots as to 9 ball where you MAY have 2 at best. Plus in 9 ball you have to play shape on only one ball and not have more than one runout plan.

So when it comes down to it 8 ball is just plain easier (tight pockets or not) than 9 ball.

I love it when people think that since there are less balls than 8 ball that nine ball is way easier. Right after they say this I usually ask how much they want to play for.. As high as you want :groucho:

Just because the runout % is higher doesn’t make it easier, jm2c.

 

[Cornerman]

8ft table, tight pockets.

Easier to runout a nine ball rack or an eight ball rack?

No ghost play.

I had to really think about this trying to remember 8ft table tournaments and league play in both 8-ball and 9-ball. It sounds wishy washy, but for me it's probably around the same. But, like always, it all depends on the individual.

I think 9-ball on the 7ft table is entirely too easy.

I think 8-ball on a 9ft table is easier to run out than on a 7ft, but it's not "entirely too easy." The congestion makes it less probable to run out, but does that equate to difficulty? You can really goof up in 8-ball and still have the accidental good leave. Not quite the case in 9-ball. Each game has their weaknesses .

I personally think regardless, most amateurs are going to have their best time on an 8ft table for either game. The shot making is easier but not ridiculous like many 7ft tables. And the added space allows for less congestion.

Freddie <~~~ Let's bring back 5" pockets

 

[Donny Lutz]

Break is critical...

8ft table, tight pockets.

Easier to runout a nine ball rack or an eight ball rack?

No ghost play.

Lots of good thoughts in the posts here, but for me it comes down to how the table is breaking. If the 9-ball break is working, then it's 9-ball, but not by much. I've run more racks of 8-ball than 9-ball on 7,8 and 9" tables, due to lack of success with the 9-ball break.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

8ft table, tight pockets.

Easier to runout a nine ball rack or an eight ball rack?

No ghost play.

I think skill level has a lot to do with which is easier for you.

Under the OP's conditions, eight ball would be seem easier for me to runout on. I'm an old bar banger trying to improve my game before it's too late. I'm probably a C player, and I presently lack the ability to accurately move the CB around the table and get shape for nine ball.

Seems that the best players have mastered draw shots, extreme English, and using spin off the rails to get position for the next shot, and are much better shot makers than I am for those times that they do leave themselves with a tough shot, especially important on a table with tight pockets.

On a 7' bar table with loose pockets, I find nine ball to be easier to play. My weak break still pockets a ball or two in most cases and I can move the ball OK with follow and soft draw. Even table-length shots are easy for me on a 7' table, so any open shot on the next ball is quite makable. On the contrary, eight ball breaks on a small table leave lots of difficult clusters and a general congestion that is harder for me to manage. Banks and combos are needed more frequently - two more weaknesses of mine.

For whatever reason, on my oversize 8' I can pull off the occasional eight ball runout, but have only done so in nine ball on a couple occasions so far. An A player might find just the opposite for them.

 

[Aaron_S]

Well, I don't claim to be normal by any means, but if I had to pick a game to play until I ran a 10-pack, my pick would be 8-ball hands down. For me it's not even close - I'm maybe 20% (or more!) more likely to B&R an 8-ball rack than a 9-ball rack. I am really, really good at a) breaking dry and b) not coming up with a shot on the 1-ball when I play 9-ball. That's on a big table, tho. No idea about those kiddie tables where if you're at the head rail and the chalk's on the foot rail, you just reach over and grab it. :wink:

I play the 9/10-ball ghost all the time on my GC. I will have to mix in some 8-ball ghost and compare scores. Without BIH after the break, I am certain my 8-ball scores would be much better than my 9-ball ones.

No idea about 8 footers either. Haven't even seen one for 15 years probably. In my experience, they played more like 9-footers than barboxes.

Aaron

 

[smoooothstroke]

I think at a certain level of play it becomes easier to run a rack of 9-ball on a 8'BB.For myself and for most play I have seen I would give a slight edge to 8-ball.8 ball is certainly easier on a 9 foot table,there is rarely a cluster and good patern play allows you to play easy shots and easy position shots.

For monster players or those who are able to figure out a good repeatable break(especially rack-yer-own) a player can string together 9 ball racks on a 7' or 8' table in huge numbers.

 

[CreeDo]

Didn't the IPT show the opposite? I think Bustamante, Morris, and maybe some others were well over 40%. I doubt you will find a 9/10 ball tournament where somebody averages 40% break and runs throughout the whole tournament.

Obviously if you take the overall stats of the tournament, it will be lower because there were many less than world class players in the tournament.

A handful of players barely broke the 40% mark as a percentage of games won. Most were more like thirty. Unfortunately the stats don't show anything about how often they actually broke (or broke dry). So we have no idea how often the player makes a ball on the break or how often they convert it to a runout. Percentage of break and runs out if total games played was usually between ten and fifteen percent. But without knowing how often they got to break in those games, it's not a useful stat... If they broke about 50% of them that would be a 20-30% runout rate.