The suggestion of a CTE specific sub forum

[SpiderWebComm]

No, I’m not trying to flip anything.

You're always trying to flip something. It was what you were trained for and did with the Air Force as a press secretary.

Any reasonable person can read through the posts in this forum and easily tell which side is “excitable.”

Yep, the ones who constantly come in trying to attack CTE. Let a thread be created on it and ALL of you will flock to it like crows seeing roadkill on a street or highway.

And the thing about other aiming systems is that while they all have some level of merit, there is not a group of supporters insisting that any of them are perfectly objective snd without flaw.

A few of the other aiming systems are extremely accurate in their method. More flaws come from the player in not SEEING it correctly, misalignment between the two balls, and a stroke issue on that given shot.

So we can discuss other systems snd say “it gets you close” or “there needs to be this adjustment or that adjustment” without getting flamed. With CTE that is not so and any criticism results in this almost extreme religious backlash that leads to endless conflict.

Lou Figueroa

I can name two or three other aiming systems that are right on the money in concept but misses result from "operator error", visually, setup, and/or stroke. The same happens with CTE and misses occur.

You miss. What is the reason and cause?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'd be annoyed that I couldn't get my .02 in directly but since you brought up baseball, I like to say team sports is for (place derogatory reference here) who can't bust a move by themselves. Other than that, real caps are all over the place here. I don't play people games but many friends and acquaintances mostly from pool in that bunch

Baseball is a team sport but everyone playing the game is individually busting a move while on the field. They're either getting a hit or striking out. They're either making a fantastic catch or making an error. They're either pitching a great game or getting battered all over the place. Somebody will end up as the hero or heroes, or the goat.

The same could be said for ALL team sports.

 

[lfigueroa]

You're always trying to flip something. It was what you were trained for and did with the Air Force as a press secretary.


Yep, the ones who constantly come in trying to attack CTE. Let a thread be created on it and ALL of you will flock to it like crows seeing roadkill on a street or highway.


A few of the other aiming systems are extremely accurate in their method. More flaws come from the player in not SEEING it correctly, misalignment between the two balls, and a stroke issue on that given shot.

I can name two or three other aiming systems that are right on the money in concept but misses result from "operator error", visually, setup, and/or stroke. The same happens with CTE and misses occur.

You miss. What is the reason and cause?

When I was at the Pentagon, for three years of that assignment, my job was to teach general officers and senior civilians how to participate in media interviews — and one of my primary messages to them was: always tell the truth.

So while you may call it flipping or spinning, it is actually taking an argument head on and showing why it is false or misleading.

So why do CTE threads garner so much attention and participation? It’s because many of them are rooted in a false or misleading premise.

As to why I miss? Because I’m not a natural. I had a career. I laid off pool for 10 years. I’m an amateur. I only play for limited periods. And now, later in life, I have impediments like bad knees and cataracts.

It’s a wonder I can make a ball.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I think that would be somewhat obvious but here goes: I like discussing pool topics with others.

That’s it.

I enjoying discussing the history of the game, 14.1, 1pocket, 3C, the players, tournaments, pool rooms old and new, funny stuff that happens in them, cues and equipment, and (wait for it)... aiming.

Yet you don't discuss aiming. You contribute noting positive to aiming and I mean ANY aiming method It's all negative and it's toward ONE method.

And to the extent that I can participate, as an intellectual exercise, I am always intrigued (and dumbfounded) by claims that clearly cannot be true.

Lou Figueroa

Actually since you know so little about aiming and have never really gotten involved with them in your own game that's why you are dumbfounded. You have no idea what's true or what isn't true. What you're most interested in is not having to admit you were wrong for 23 years. What a blow to the ego that would be to waste so many years.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

When I was at the Pentagon, for three years of that assignment, my job was to teach general officers and senior civilians how to participate in media interviews — and one of my primary messages to them was: always tell the truth.

ROTFLMAO. Right, that's what EVERY press secretary does whether Democrat or Republican...tell the truth. Funny how their noses are always 3" longer after their tenure is over than when it started.

So while you may call it flipping or spinning, it is actually taking an argument head on and showing why it is false or misleading.

From YOUR point of view. Others keep telling you it's true and accurate and they're the ones personally involved with it. What person would lie to themselves about what they're doing to end up as a worse player and be happier getting worse than a better player winning?

So why do CTE threads garner so much attention and participation? It’s because many of them are rooted in a false or misleading premise.

Which you absolutely do not know from personal experience.

As to why I miss? Because I’m not a natural. I had a career. I laid off pool for 10 years. I’m an amateur. I only play for limited periods. And now, later in life, I have impediments like bad knees and cataracts.

It’s a wonder I can make a ball.

Lou Figueroa

You left out the last line..."So how much do you wanna play for?"

 

[lfigueroa]

ROTFLMAO. Right, that's what EVERY press secretary does whether Democrat or Republican...tell the truth. Funny how their noses are always 3" longer after their tenure is over than when it started.

From YOUR point of view. Others keep telling you it's true and accurate and they're the ones personally involved with it. What person would lie to themselves about what they're doing to end up as a worse player and be happier getting worse than a better player winning?


Which you absolutely do not know from personal experience.

You left out the last line..."So how much do you wanna play for?"

The mistake you make is believing a military spokesman is the same as a political press secretary.

And frankly, I can only speak for what was going on during my tenure. I cannot speak for what goes on with the Army, Navy, Marines, or Coast Guard but I feel comfortable saying that these people view their job differently than those in politics.

I don’t know what motivates people to have different beliefs than myself. I just know that we should be able to engage in a civil discussion about our disagreements.

Lou Figueria

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I don’t know what motivates people to have different beliefs than myself. I just know that we should be able to engage in a civil discussion about our disagreements.

Lou Figueria

How many more years beyond the current 23 do you think will be needed? It was never civil from the very first day when PJ lambasted it with one of his classic posts and you followed right up. Nobody questioned Hal to dig further.
Nothing but civil discussion is going on elsewhere with around 400 participants. (not all at one time) Some trouble makers sneak in but the head doorman tosses them out immediately.

 

[lfigueroa]

How many more years beyond the current 23 do you think will be needed? It was never civil from the very first day when PJ lambasted it with one of his classic posts and you followed right up. Nobody questioned Hal to dig further.
Nothing but civil discussion is going on elsewhere with around 400 participants. (not all at one time) Some trouble makers sneak in but the head doorman tosses them out immediately.

The answer to the question: how many more years? is not knowable.

But I think long after we’re all gone there will be intelligent people questioning questionable claims.

So maybe the answer is: always : -)

Lou Figueroa

 

[bbb]

let me post whats in the sticky "bashing other aiming systems" at the start of this forum (bolded parts are my editing for emphasis)
.......
........
OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.
.......
........
the discussion of the "merits" of cte has been discussed and bashed for over 23 years so thats not going to stop
if the line below is allowed
. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free
since this line allows the detracters to have a free ride

a subforum for CTE
only for those that want to learn it COULD work
but any desire to criticize it(CTE)
would have to be done in the main aiming forum
jmho
.....
just look at what has been generated from a simple question

The suggestion of a CTE specific sub forum​

Would this idea work? It would still not be a place for CTE bashing.

 

[HawaiianEye]

When I was at the Pentagon, for three years of that assignment, my job was to teach general officers and senior civilians how to participate in media interviews — and one of my primary messages to them was: always tell the truth.

So while you may call it flipping or spinning, it is actually taking an argument head on and showing why it is false or misleading.

So why do CTE threads garner so much attention and participation? It’s because many of them are rooted in a false or misleading premise.

As to why I miss? Because I’m not a natural. I had a career. I laid off pool for 10 years. I’m an amateur. I only play for limited periods. And now, later in life, I have impediments like bad knees and cataracts.

It’s a wonder I can make a ball.

Lou Figueroa

A PAO tells the “story” that their superiors want told.

Whether it is totally factual is another matter.

PAOs are not reporters that go out and tell stories that the brass does not want told.

No PAO writes a story saying, “what the General said was total bullshit”.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I think a CTE forum is a good idea. Clearly there is a lot of material to discuss surrounding that particular subject and anyone willing to learn it would seek it out. All critique or debate could then take place on the main aiming forum and those wanting to discuss technical aspects of CTE or praise it and testify to its effectiveness unopposed, could go to the specific forum. It could be made as a by invitiation only forum moderated by a CTE guy, I think that would work the best. Frankly I don't see any problem with this, but then again the CTE people themselves have said they don't want to participate here anymore, and would rather be on facebook, so I guess maybe they're not that into the idea.

I really don't see any productive discussion regarding CTE taking place at the current time or in the future. Naturally the most enthusiastic users want to use this forum as a recruiting tool, others want to combat what they feel is false information. There really hasn't been any movement in the positions in all the time I've been on here. The conflict has degraded into a destructive cycle where nobody has any motivation to try to see the issue from the others perspective and any disagreement is attributed to perceived negative personality traits. It's a little bit entertaining to see kindergarten insults being used by men pushing 60 and 70, and even threats to fight from people who probably are not in any kind of health and should watch their blood pressures carefully, but it's mostly just sad. People have been killed and seriously hurt over petty online squabbles like this, so it's less harmless than one would think. The positions are so entrenched and polarized, that there really is no chance of anyone actually changing their position. Some people have just realized that the whole issue is just cirkling the drain and got out.

Lets face it, the whole CTE thing is just a source of drama and cheap entertainment right now on this forum. There is zero chance of anyone learning anything from whats going on. So if anyone actually WANTED to teach this system, a dedicated sub forum is the way to go, IMO. However, I think the hardcore crowd would miss their daily dose of drama after a while. Some people just love a good argument or even a petty squabble.

 

[Low500]

I don’t know what motivates people to have different beliefs than myself. I just know that we should be able to engage in a civil discussion about our disagreements.

Lou Figueria

And then YOU, in post #741 today at 7:24 AM in the thread "Center Pocket Music", made the snarky comment of:
"Lmao, shouldn't need it if CTE is so grand".
You're not fooling anyone, bub. Snakes crawl when the grass is high.

 

[canwin]

I think a CTE forum is a good idea. Clearly there is a lot of material to discuss surrounding that particular subject and anyone willing to learn it would seek it out. All critique or debate could then take place on the main aiming forum and those wanting to discuss technical aspects of CTE or praise it and testify to its effectiveness unopposed, could go to the specific forum. It could be made as a by invitiation only forum moderated by a CTE guy, I think that would work the best. Frankly I don't see any problem with this, but then again the CTE people themselves have said they don't want to participate here anymore, and would rather be on facebook, so I guess maybe they're not that into the idea.

I really don't see any productive discussion regarding CTE taking place at the current time or in the future. Naturally the most enthusiastic users want to use this forum as a recruiting tool, others want to combat what they feel is false information. There really hasn't been any movement in the positions in all the time I've been on here. The conflict has degraded into a destructive cycle where nobody has any motivation to try to see the issue from the others perspective and any disagreement is attributed to perceived negative personality traits. It's a little bit entertaining to see kindergarten insults being used by men pushing 60 and 70, and even threats to fight from people who probably are not in any kind of health and should watch their blood pressures carefully, but it's mostly just sad. People have been killed and seriously hurt over petty online squabbles like this, so it's less harmless than one would think. The positions are so entrenched and polarized, that there really is no chance of anyone actually changing their position. Some people have just realized that the whole issue is just cirkling the drain and got out.

Lets face it, the whole CTE thing is just a source of drama and cheap entertainment right now on this forum. There is zero chance of anyone learning anything from whats going on. So if anyone actually WANTED to teach this system, a dedicated sub forum is the way to go, IMO. However, I think the hardcore crowd would miss their daily dose of drama after a while. Some people just love a good argument or even a petty squabble.

There's a different type of pool hustler nowadays that will separate whoever from their money and it pretty much runs rampant in all facets of the pool world now. You can't go anywhere without seeing or hearing one of these types accosting the ears and eyes of others who would rather learn and enjoy pool by themselves on their own. They call themselves certified and masters and this and that and on and on but they all have one thing in common

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The answer to the question: how many more years? is not knowable.

It won't be too long now that the book is available. It REALLY is well put together. If questions continue, then there's a reading comprehension problem as well as NOT getting on the table with it. And the last 7 words of the last sentence has always been the problem.

But I think long after we’re all gone there will be intelligent people questioning questionable claims.

Intelligent people aren't as intelligent as THEY think. Most if it is from an over blown ego of self as know it all's up front. If one DOES what one is expected to do to learn it at the table, questionable claims are answered

So maybe the answer is: always : -)

Lou Figueroa

I think if the two main antagonists from 1997 pass on to the next phase after life here on Earth, it'll be the end. Do you think they would be classified as questionable names?

 

[JB Cases]

Not a bad idea. Here would be my first order of business regarding the CTE Forum. (Why did you delete your post, Joey?)

Joey Bautista, YOU'RE BANNED! Pat Johnson - BANNED! Lou Figueroa - BANNED! Dan White - BANNED!

All problems SOLVED with CTE.

You don't come into our forum disrupting CTE discussions EVER and we don't go into your threads talking about ghost ball, contact points, fractions, how math, geometry, and every force of nature has to be factored into a shot before pulling the trigger with a stroke.

DEAL?

Or maybe Mike could do it himself. Either way...ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED WITH CTE AND THE REST OF IT!

I don't want to not be shut out of ghost ball discussions. I don't participate in them to promote CTE specifically. I participate to list the things I know to be true based on my experience and experiments. I personally would LOVE it if GB were the very best way to get on the shot line for shots directly to a pocket. If that worked so great then from the moment I became aware of it that would have been enough. But it wasn't, I hand drew and cut ghost ball templates in the 90s for myself.

I can tout CTE as the most accurate aiming system I know of and I will accept discussion on that point. I am also not opposed to any other objective aiming method. The truth here is that in well over 90% of threads started by CTE proponents the thread starter is not being demeaning, not attacking, not being incivil in the initial post. They are asking questions of other CTE users/instructors and/or they are announcing things like videos and books or accomplishments. Go look at the pattern of post and response and it becomes pretty clear where the antagonism comes from. CTE users on THIS forum are on the defensive ALL THE TIME because of this dysfunctional situation where the bullies get to be snide and denigrating and cutting while "pretending" to ask questions.

Lou said he stands by his FIRST post on my FIRST EVER Hal Houle aiming post on RSB where he said in response to my exuberant account of meeting Hal and learning an aiming system, "The Druids are acting up again....." There is not any way to characterize that opening comment from Lou as anything other than mocking and trolling for argumentative reaction. And in the same thread others, some of whom are here now, made similar comments. Now, while I fully understand that this type of interaction had been going on PRIOR to my first post on the subject when people start implying that I am a member of cult within minutes of me posting an unbiased genuine unfiltered contemporaneous report of my experience on the pool table with a witness was all but guaranteed to get a negative and hostile reaction. But guess what? It didn't as I took the ribbing and admitted clearly that I could not give technical or mathematical answers as to HOW it worked just a testimonial that it WAS WORKING and that I was pleased with the results I was getting.

In subsequent threads Lou and others made sure to repeat their cult slurs and religious zealot slurs and their self-delusion slurs. This went on until I snapped and told them what I think in the terms I prefer to use. When Fast Larry ruined RSB with thread bombing the group moved to AZB and when the subject first appeared in my view I recounted my story about meeting Hal and the results without denigrating a single person in any way, implied or otherwise. Immediately Lou attacked me despite his promise not to at Derby City previous to the migration to AZB.

Mike that's how rabid these people are. Lou, Pat Johnson, Dan White, Joey Bautista, and a few others are the CORE of this strife. They are literally the Westborough Baptist Church group of CTE protestors. Totally committed to ruining EVERY CTE discussion they can just like the church members are committed to ruining every funeral of a gay person that they can. It must stop because it ruins the purpose of this forum and makes it no better than when Fast Larry was bombing the RSB forum daily. People are discussing CTE with civility and respect on Facebook and the way that CTE discussions here are hijacked by the knockers drives members away from AZB. I would advertise here again IF there was a "be cool" rule that is similar to the one I put in at Open Billiards Market. This rule basically says that if your PATTERN of posting is disruptive even when you have not specifically broken any sharply defined rule then we will bar you if your content negatively impacts the group. Notice that it is the number one rule. And I didn't say it is the golden rule because some people WANT to be treated like crap so they treat people like crap.

[01] - BE CIVIL, COOL, AND RESPECTFUL
Be respectful, don’t be a jerk, don’t be an asshole. This includes in private messages and other groups. This relates to the above rule. It is at an admin/mod’s discretion to remove a member from the group of said admin/mod feels that the member will potentially impact the quality of the group and/or other people’s experience.
Listen, it's like this, there will ALWAYS BE some posts made which have problems/questions/rules issues etc.... IF a admin/mod says something or someone else says something REFRAIN from being an asshole because when you go to that level then it makes it extremely hard to let you stay in the group or reverse a ban. We DO NOT LIKE to ban people. If you stay civil then almost every situation can be worked out where all parties are happy. But when you go straight to defcon5 then the actual dispute doesn't matter at that point.
NOOBS PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. Admins/Mods are here to help you DO NOT GO OFF ON THEM. Blocking a mod after being instructed to adhere to the rules will be a reason for a ban.
Please just BE COOL and BE CIVIL. Treat this like any other store or market. You know you don't go to the mall and harass the sellers because you don't like the prices. You don't stand outside the stores and spend time warning the people who would like to go in the stores about your feelings about the prices. If you did then you would be escorted out of the store.

 

[lfigueroa]

It won't be too long now that the book is available. It REALLY is well put together. If questions continue, then there's a reading comprehension problem as well as NOT getting on the table with it. And the last 7 words of the last sentence has always been the problem.

Intelligent people aren't as intelligent as THEY think. Most if it is from an over blown ego of self as know it all's up front. If one DOES what one is expected to do to learn it at the table, questionable claims are answered

I think if the two main antagonists from 1997 pass on to the next phase after life here on Earth, it'll be the end. Do you think they would be classified as questionable names?

Well all of that, about the book, is just your opinion, the same making broad generalizations about intelligent people.

I have a copy coming shortly and maybe I’ll post a review. Maybe not.

Lou Figuetoa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The answer to the question: how many more years? is not knowable.

It won't be too long now that the book is available. It REALLY is well put together. If it continues, then there's a reading comprehension problem as well as NOT getting on the table with it. And the last 7 words of the last sentence has always been the problem.

But I think long after we’re all gone there will be intelligent people questioning questionable claims.

Intelligent people aren't as intelligent as THEY think. Most if it is from an over blown ego of self as know it all's up front. If one DOES what one is expected to do to learn it at the table, questionable claims are answered

So maybe the answer is: always : -)

Lou Figueroa

I think if the two main antagonists from 1997 pass on to the next phase after life here on Earth, it'll be the end. Do you think they would be classified as questionable names?

Well all of that, about the book, is just your opinion, samebroadly genetsluzing about intelligent people.

I have a copy coming shortly and maybe I’ll post a review. Maybe not.

Lou Figuetoa

It doesn't matter if you have the book or not. The report or review is going to be exactly what you've been saying for the last 23 years. NOTHING will change. Just pull out some of your favorite slings from the archives and it'll be the same either way.

 

[JB Cases]

There's a different type of pool hustler nowadays that will separate whoever from their money and it pretty much runs rampant in all facets of the pool world now. You can't go anywhere without seeing or hearing one of these types accosting the ears and eyes of others who would rather learn and enjoy pool by themselves on their own. They call themselves certified and masters and this and that and on and on but they all have one thing in common

If a person wants to learn on their own why would they be participating in discussions about how to play pool? If they are opening and reading threads about pool instruction and pool instructors are participating in those threads then what is the problem? Isn't that where you would expect them to be?

 

[JB Cases]

Well all of that, about the book, is just your opinion, samebroadly genetsluzing about intelligent people.

I have a copy coming shortly and maybe I’ll post a review. Maybe not.

Lou Figuetoa

Please do. Really PLEASE DO because I am going to LOVE using it no matter what you write. The pairing of video and one's words editorially can really do a lot to bring the viewers to the right understanding. Just as you can take screenshots of my goofiest moments and pair them with words that put me into a negative light the right pairing of your words along with your performance will put CTE into a very positive light. You have provided me with a ton of visual examples to use with the proper context of your words and analysis.

You know that you are dying to knock the book. So go for it. Every critique will be answered and any praise evaluated for the knowledge behind it to determine the sincerity and value.

All that said what I GENUINELY hope is that you actually read it with a truly open mind and that you actually learn to see the alignment visuals as we see them. I genuinely hope that you find the value that we have and that you break 200+ if that happens to be your next 14.1 goal. Despite everything you have ever said and done maliciously on this subject I still want you to improve and enjoy this sport.

 

[lfigueroa]

It won't be too long now that the book is available. It REALLY is well put together. If it continues, then there's a reading comprehension problem as well as NOT getting on the table with it. And the last 7 words of the last sentence has always been the problem.

Intelligent people aren't as intelligent as THEY think. Most if it is from an over blown ego of self as know it all's up front. If one DOES what one is expected to do to learn it at the table, questionable claims are answered

I think if the two main antagonists from 1997 pass on to the next phase after life here on Earth, it'll be the end. Do you think they would be classified as questionable names?

It doesn't matter if you have the book or not. The report or review is going to be exactly what you've been saying for the last 23 years. NOTHING will change. Just pull out some of your favorite slings from the archives and it'll be the same either way.

No, that’s not the way I operate.

If I write anything up I’ll give it a fair shake. I know you don’t believe that but that’s the way it is.

Lou Figueroa