The true cost of hustling

There is no way for anyone even half decent to get a big game against those guys, unless they too lay down and hustle. In fact the last time I played one of those guys (I had been sick for a few weeks, and he'd seen me play poorly), I wiped the floor with him, first one on one, then at scotch doubles, only he wouldn't gamble any real money (I guess he still wasn't really confident about the game). Still, his losing whines was music to my ears. Especially since he tried to cheat in the scotch doubles. That was a long time ago. He doesn't even go anywhere near me now. I'm not a big gambler anyway. I like tournaments.

The other guy is a little stronger and would maybe pose a bit of a challenge, because he's smart and experienced. His shooting is not as good anymore, though. He definitely won't play me (unless I give him a huge spot or play a gaff game, putting me at a massive disadvantage), and I'm not going after him. What would be the purpose of that, anyway? I don't like them and the only joy I get is when (or if) they lose. That's a very negative mindset. I can't help my Schadenfreude, but I'm not going to actively feed it, either. As I said, busting them isn't possible. If they lose the first set, they quit. Playing them is a chore, because you have to watch them like a hawk so they don't cheat and they can't teach me anything I would want to learn. Their favorite thing to do is to shout "Foul" really loudly just as you are about to shoot, just to see if you let them get away with it. Of course there would not be any foul commited. Another is deliberately (but to the untrained eye accidentally) playing safe in ring games. A third is moving the balls when you're not looking. Sharking...The list goes on and on. And non stop whining when they lose. I don't know about you, but that sort of thing REALLY pisses me off!


I don't play with cheats. F- those guys.

As for your last sentence: "Pool halls aren't sunday schools.." It's true. Pool halls are businesses who should nurture their real, valuable customers. Not stages for these lowlives to setup their little theater.

Lol, the guys you speak about sound like idiots. I actually knew a couple of guys that were exactly as you describe. The thing is that these guys were not real players. They were decent, but not anywhere near A level players. They knew all sorts of sharking tricks, and cheats. They were the type that would do anything to win, and they would only get into games that they felt were a lock (to win, with very low chance of losing). I always thought they were funny though. They were big time stoners, lol. The difference between the guys you speak about and the guys I knew is that the guys you speak about have good jobs (and are older, and have A level games), and the guys I knew were I would say C+ (decent players), and they were young (like in their late teens, very early 20's), and worked minimum wage jobs. They were great at hustling though (in the ways that you talk of the guys that you know).
 
Last edited:
if two people want to match up and gamble that is none of anyone elses business.
and good for the pool room as it brings some excitement to it rather than just fun players hitting balls around.
if you dont gamble or are not good at it dont but dont impose your values or will on the others.

Yeah, that is true, and you make a good point. I do not think it is right for the strong player (hustler) to prey on the newbie (far weaker player). But just so the stronger player does not try to pull some type of con (hustle) on the much weaker player, then the weaker player should take full responsibility for their actions. I lost a lot of money when I was a kid (to much stronger players), but I never felt like I was hustled (or hustled into making my bets). So, my point is that if you see someone pulling a con (a hustle), then I think it is fair to get in the middle, or at least notify the management (about the con/hustle that is being pulled by someone).
 
You just described most pool rooms......:thumbup:

No, lol, you do not see that type of scene in most pool rooms (not anymore). There is one like that in the city where I live (called Bank Shot), but none of the other pool rooms in town are like that. Pool halls like Bank Shot Billiards in Louisville are very rare anymore (I think). You walk in, and you see a lot of guys just sitting around, waiting for action. I have never seen any action there though, but I never stayed long (maybe an hour, to play, before leaving). I think those guys sit around there all day long (waiting for action) though. They probably never play each other. They wait around for the games they know they can win. A few of them asked me if I wanted to play for some cash (after watching me practice), and I was like "no thanks, lol". I knew better. One guy offered me something like 10-4 playing 1 pocket, but he wanted to bet high. I had to pass on his offer, but I imagine many players (with money) would have taken him up on that spot offer.
 
Last edited:
Some good posts in the thread, especially straightpool_99 and classiccues.

It cracks me up how many people don't realize without the ball bangers and league players there wouldn't be a lot left for this sport. I always love hearing about how the bangers and league players have more toys and gadgets than skill. I could care less about their skill level but at least they are spending money in the industry buying the new toys and gadgets. Without these people spending money, how would the industry survive.

I know different locations have different situations. I personally feel pretty fortunate with the locals at my pool hall. Guys our friendly, don't mind answering questions, I know I have been warned to stay away from certain people as well people I am encouraged to play with. I don't gamble and don't have any plans on it. I don't need money only the line to bring out my best game. My ego and pride are enough I do not want to lost to anyone.

But then I hear the other stories about how the old timers won't share information unless you are paying for it. And then you read some other people in this thread saying let them get hustled.

The people getting hustled are pretty important to your local pool room owner. Just as was already stated, they come in to get better, they start bringing friends, they are spending money at the pool hall. Once again helping the industry.

I do not buy this whole if they want to gamble let them, cause at the end of the day they do not know what they are getting themselves into. If that brings excitement watching some low skill lever person get hustled by a better player, Thats pretty sad. And to run them off only hurts the game. And in the end it's why pool has the reputation it does.

People don't come up to me at the golf course and ask if I want to gamble, on the basketball court no one tries to hustle me.

Pool is animal that eats its young

You make some great points, but I feel that just so nobody is really pulling a con (as in a hustle) on anyone else, then everything else is fair (in my opinion). If mr money bags (with a big head) wants to gamble with some other player (who comes up and asks them to play for a certain amount of money), and just so the better player does not throw off (whiling playing for fun, or for a very low amount, just to get the bet raised to a very high amount), then all other scenarios seem fair to me. Just do not con anyone, shark anyone, or cheat anyone. Be fair, and all is okay in my book. Unless you think that just asking the much weaker newbie player to gamble is the bad thing that you think turns them away from pool. If they accept the bet, and lose (fairly, without any conning, sharking, or cheating), then it is on them. If they then decide to quit the sport (because they lost in a fair match, if you exclude skill levels), then I guess they did not love it that much anyways. You made some great points though. There is a good reason about why respectable pool rooms do not allow gambling.
 
Chuck Fields - yup I know the dismal sight describe. It also depends where / when you're at. I know the room I came up in they had " the wall ". Pretty much anytime you would walk in the ( and I do literally mean ANY TIME AT ALL ) There would be a wall of pool players just sitting ready for action, some catching some sleep, maybe some cards. There also may be some people throughout the pool room in chairs, under tables, in the back room - whatever basically. The difference Chuck was these people were not just waiting to " hustle " someone.. Everybody basically knew everybody else so not really any sneaking up. They were just waiting for some kinda action to their liking. Could be an old grimey man sleeping in a chair, someone might give him a nudge to wake up and ask " you wanna play some $50 - $100 a rack?" He says sure, pulls a knot of about $5000 out puts his post up and within 30 seconds of sleeping we had action! Countless stories like that.

B &1, I kinda da think you and quite a few others might be confused a bit, and that may mainly be due to terminology. That's one I really don't want to get into right now, or ever again lol, but at least not for a LONG time! I also want to preface all of this by saying I don't have issues with leaguers. They totally have their place as far as I'm concerned. Actually , I feel like I just wrote a 20 page book in the other investment thread about how important I think they are to pools overall survival , let alone growing it. I am referring to misconceptions you have based on this post.

I don't really see any leaguers hustled. Keep in ,India with everything I say from this point forward there are always exceptions but this is in " general ". The first reason I don't believe any leaguers are getting hustled is because you couldn't get most of them to bet water is wet. Some kind of $$$ needs to be wagered in the first place for a hustle could even become possible. Next, most of the leaguers are located in the bars. People that are being referred to as " hustlers " are usually the hard core pool people found in the pool halls ( and honestly it's fairly rare to even see those these days ). This is a major point of contention on the wording and definitions ( which is the debate I don't want to get into ). For me, the hustler is the guy stagerring around the pool hall flashing money and suckling down a fifth of good old Jase Daniels looking for a game ( the JD IS actually iced tea ( that's the hustle ). Now the guy that offers a little less weight than what he thinks his opponent needs is not a hustler to me, that just seems like smart gambling. So my point is yes we Def need the league players, I don't really ever see them getting takein advantage of financially ( that could be debatable though in regards to all the latest and greatest gadgets and cue / shafts - but hey I figure it's their money and if it makes rhea happy then cool ). One last point which no one ever likes hearing, If the leaguers are not gambling (which they are not ) remember it takes TWO people to get in action, hustle or otherwise. Both want to get each others money. Once again, the leaguers rarely have to worry about that, so I think they are just fine.

As to the old timers, well they figured they had to pay their dues and had to learn the hard way - why shouldn't you? Yup, that Def is their mindset but don't worry all the old timers will be gone before too long. Tell your what, there's gonna be A LOT of people wishing they had spent that couple bucks to get to listen to all the old stories - but it will be too late.

Golf and Bball , maybe you don't know it but there are TRUCKLOADS of cash from the action at the Golf course and on the court. Serious, SERIOUS money and that's no joke.

Great reply. The best hustler is the best con man (they are one and the same, I think). By the way, the Bball comment (or statement, forgive me English, lol) made me think about the movie "White Men Can't Jump". That was a great movie about basketball, gambling, and hustling. Sorry for the non pool related reply.
 
Last edited:
Great reply. The best hustler is the best con man (they are one and the same, I think).

If you don't play the game well enough to know when you are being "hustled", then you shouldn't be gambling at pool.

I can tell the difference in a guy getting "lucky" and a guy who knows how to play.
 
If you don't play the game well enough to know when you are being "hustled", then you shouldn't be gambling at pool.

I can tell the difference in a guy getting "lucky" and a guy who knows how to play.

Yeah, me too. It takes a really good hustler to fake a good stroke, with a really bad stroke (or vice versa, if I did not have that in the correct order, lol). If a hustler can play bad, and also completely change his stroke (making it look really bad, without overacting the part), then that is a good hustler, and they might even be able to con a decent player into giving up a spot. This is something that some players look at (their opponents stroke), to see if they are decent players. This is just how I could always tell if I thought my opponent was throwing off (trying to hustle me). Poor (wannabe) hustlers can't just change their stroke that easily. Lol, that reminds me of one season when I played in an APA league. My captain wanted me to throw off (sandbag) so that I could remain a 4 (and not possibly go any higher then a 5), and I was probably the worst sandbagger that he had ever seen. Lol, I made my bad playing look way too obvious to my opponents. I would have been a horrible wannabe hustler. I just could not throw off to save my life. I would be missing the balls, but it was just too obvious to anyone that was watching that I was doing it on purpose, lol.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, me too. It takes a really good hustler (con man) to fake a good stroke, with a really bad stroke (or vice versa, if I did not have that in the correct order, lol). If a hustler can play bad, and also completely change his stroke (making it look really bad, without overacting the part), then that is a good hustler, and they might even be able to con a decent player into giving up a spot.

I haven't seen a "hustler" in a number of years. Not a "pool hustler" anyway.

The key to not getting hustled is don't lose.

I never went into any place and tried to sandbag anyone. I'd go challenge the money table in every place I went. Every time I put a quarter on the table in a new place, they'd say, "you know we're playing for money don't you" and I'd say, "that's ok". These were places where they had money games going on and the table was open to anybody who wanted to put up a quarter and your money.

I'd come out as strong as I could and try to run out and win every game. I never made any attempt to sucker anybody. Sometimes people would call me a "hustler" and I'd say "hustlers miss...did you see me miss?" "If I was going to hustle you, I wouldn't have run 2 or 3 racks in a row on you."

I used to carry my cue in, too. It wasn't like I was trying to come in "under cover".

Lots of places, long ago, always had their "hometown hero" and they would all pool their money and back him. I can't count the number of times I left with all their money, or all they were willing to lose. A couple of times, I had to fight my way out of the joint because I was alone and they didn't like losing.
 
I haven't seen a "hustler" in a number of years. Not a "pool hustler" anyway.

The key to not getting hustled is don't lose.

I never went into any place and tried to sandbag anyone. I'd go challenge the money table in every place I went. Every time I put a quarter on the table in a new place, they'd say, "you know we're playing for money don't you" and I'd say, "that's ok". These were places where they had money games going on and the table was open to anybody who wanted to put up a quarter and your money.

I'd come out as strong as I could and try to run out and win every game. I never made any attempt to sucker anybody. Sometimes people would call me a "hustler" and I'd say "hustlers miss...did you see me miss?" "If I was going to hustle you, I wouldn't have run 2 or 3 racks in a row on you."

I used to carry my cue in, too. It wasn't like I was trying to come in "under cover".

Lots of places, long ago, always had their "hometown hero" and they would all pool their money and back him. I can't count the number of times I left with all their money, or all they were willing to lose. A couple of times, I had to fight my way out of the joint because I was alone and they didn't like losing.

I never tried to sandbag anyone either, and I felt really bad trying to do it because my league captain told me to. He needed a really good 5, and he was a 7, so he did not want or need another 7 on his team. I think back on it, and really is I would have found a team that could use a stronger player, and would allow me to play my best. My old team captain did get me to Vegas that year (to play in the singles tournaments) as a 5, and I did great, and won a lot of money. There were other 5's that really played just as strong as me though, and I actually lost to one of them (in one of the single elimination tournaments). I really miss those challenge tables that you are referring to. Those are long gone in my experience, where you place your quarters on the rail, and then have to wait 7 or 8 games (at times) to get in. I used to come into this bar on Friday and Saturday nights at around 9 or 10 pm, place 2 quarters down on the rail, then wait my turn (which would average out at around 30 to 45 minutes at times), and then I would hold the table all night till they closed at 2 am. None of those college kids ever wanted or asked to play for any money though. They may have accepted if I asked, but I never asked anyone to play for anything. I never felt like it was right to gamble, unless I really was gambling. It has been well over 10 years since I have even seen a challenge table. I feel that pool is really been dying since the 90's. It was really hot though, on the weekends, at a local bar I used to go to in the early 2000's. Lots of college kids, who loved to drink beer and play pool. Those days are long gone it seems.
 
Last edited:
Let me say this my perspective is coming from me being a newer player.

Bringing up the league players was just tangent I went off on thinking about hurting the sport and the bad rep they get. Like BmoreMoney said I do not think a lot of them are getting hustled.

I do agree with a lot of the other posts but let me clarify. I have no problem with gambling or action, i have a problem with someone hustling someone else. Like someone else mentioned, the con man, the shark moves, the person who is only trying to take advantage from someone else. The newer/weaker players do not realize as fast as some of the more seasoned guys what is happening.

I also agree with don't go to the deep end if you cant swim. Some people shouldn't gamble but if they want to, who are we stop them.

BmoreMoney- I agree about there being more money thrown around at golf courses than pool rooms but I have never been asked to gamble on a golf course, I have been asked to gamble at a pool hall. Maybe if pool halls could be a discreet at the golf courses it wouldn't be an issue.

In the end I think the game of pool is in a pretty pathetic state, and I would like to see the sport do much better for itself. Like the first post by StraightPool_99 i just don't want to see people turned away from the game because of some "Hustler". At the end of the day we need as many people in this sport as possible for it get better.

I dont care if they play...
bar box or 9 footer
revo or maple
8 ball or one pocket
league or action

Just as long as they are playing.
 
I been there and liked it. Got played and made tree fire too.
3 thumbs up.
No, lol, you do not see that type of scene in most pool rooms (not anymore). There is one like that in the city where I live (called Bank Shot), but none of the other pool rooms in town are like that. Pool halls like Bank Shot Billiards in Louisville are very rare anymore (I think). You walk in, and you see a lot of guys just sitting around, waiting for action. I have never seen any action there though, but I never stayed long (maybe an hour, to play, before leaving). I think those guys sit around there all day long (waiting for action) though. They probably never play each other. They wait around for the games they know they can win. A few of them asked me if I wanted to play for some cash (after watching me practice), and I was like "no thanks, lol". I knew better. One guy offered me something like 10-4 playing 1 pocket, but he wanted to bet high. I had to pass on his offer, but I imagine many players (with money) would have taken him up on that spot offer.
 
When I started going to pool halls at 16 I knew there were hustlers. I also knew I wasn't that great. Anyone who approached me to gamble I figured was better than me a regular and if I wanted to have money to play don't bet, I'm gonna get hustled.

Took 15 years off and got back in the game. Got back to the pool hall. Still had the same mentality. Didn't bet anyone I didn't know. Anyone doliciting me for a bet I figured was a shark and I'd get my arse whipped and have empty pockets.

I started playing a few tourneys and leagues. I made a conscious effort to remember the faces of the top players so when I go to play somewhere I recognize those people.

The last time I bet someone I didnt know the guy ran the table on me like it was three ball.

So imo, that newb who doesn't know jack about hustling and thinks he's got a great game is an egotistical moron. If its not pool its something else he'll lose his money at.

I got my butt handed to me when I first got into league play. Was practicing and not betting, playing one of the top players in the area. I don't like the guy at all. That embarrassment motivated me tremendously. Last time I played him I won more games than he did.

For some, losing bad is a motivator.

When I got into leagues I replaced a friend who had took me out years before and blew me out 30-1. I practiced hard to fill his shoes cause I knew what good play looked like. Now I could play him straight up and it'd be a tight match.
 
I've heard about this

There is no way for anyone even half decent to get a big game against those guys, unless they too lay down and hustle. In fact the last time I played one of those guys (I had been sick for a few weeks, and he'd seen me play poorly), I wiped the floor with him, first one on one, then at scotch doubles, only he wouldn't gamble any real money (I guess he still wasn't really confident about the game). Still, his losing whines was music to my ears. Especially since he tried to cheat in the scotch doubles. That was a long time ago. He doesn't even go anywhere near me now. I'm not a big gambler anyway. I like tournaments.

The other guy is a little stronger and would maybe pose a bit of a challenge, because he's smart and experienced. His shooting is not as good anymore, though. He definitely won't play me (unless I give him a huge spot or play a gaff game, putting me at a massive disadvantage), and I'm not going after him. What would be the purpose of that, anyway? I don't like them and the only joy I get is when (or if) they lose. That's a very negative mindset. I can't help my Schadenfreude, but I'm not going to actively feed it, either. As I said, busting them isn't possible. If they lose the first set, they quit. Playing them is a chore, because you have to watch them like a hawk so they don't cheat and they can't teach me anything I would want to learn. Their favorite thing to do is to shout "Foul" really loudly just as you are about to shoot, just to see if you let them get away with it. Of course there would not be any foul commited. Another is deliberately (but to the untrained eye accidentally) playing safe in ring games. A third is moving the balls when you're not looking. Sharking...The list goes on and on. And non stop whining when they lose. I don't know about you, but that sort of thing REALLY pisses me off!


I don't play with cheats. F- those guys.

As for your last sentence: "Pool halls aren't sunday schools.." It's true. Pool halls are businesses who should nurture their real, valuable customers. Not stages for these lowlives to setup their little theater.

WOW these guys used to be champions, and you " wiped the floor with him' . i know
just how they work. They get a unsuspecting player that's in for a little fun while his
grandmother does her shopping. Get him playing for the pure pleasure of competition
then slowly gets him to play for a grape soda, then before he knows what happened
the noose is tightened and he has lost it all. I'm lucky, years ago I saw an episode
of Dick Van Dyke where Rob got hustled almost the same way, I thought Laura was
going to pen his ears back. PLEASE. Got to go now, off to the brothel for a hug.
jack
 
Players Vs Hustlers

I came up in the 80s during Pools last boom. We all wanted to be the next Mike Seigle or Buddy hall .

The Money Players were there to gamble and you could easily find a game anywhere in the price range you wanted be it 5 dollars a game or 500 . these players you knew what you were getting into they didn't hide their speed , or try to con you with sharking tricks you wanted in you made your game . they would give a spot it was up to you to figure out if what they offered was what you needed and adjust from there , that was on you to decide if you could afford the proposition.

When you started Playing Money games of course the smell of money is going draw out the players and predators alike it was part of our pool education to figure out the difference as someone else posted Pool halls are not Sunday schools

The Hustlers wouldn't touch a good game with a 10 foot pole. they prey on the weakest players. They are like coyotes always looking for the easiest marks . Any game they don't have an absolute lock on they avoid , the hustler is there for the easy money no other reason . these guys you don't see as often anymore as now with the internet and especially Here at AZB the myth of going undercover is all but gone . these guys are usually found out pretty quick these days and it doesn't take long for word to get around on them
 
It's always amusing to come across people who believe their pool subculture is representative of all pool players. Haters will always find something to denigrate, and blame, rather than take responsibility.

Some good posts in the thread, especially straightpool_99 and classiccues.

It cracks me up how many people don't realize without the ball bangers and league players there wouldn't be a lot left for this sport. I always love hearing about how the bangers and league players have more toys and gadgets than skill. I could care less about their skill level but at least they are spending money in the industry buying the new toys and gadgets. Without these people spending money, how would the industry survive.

I know different locations have different situations. I personally feel pretty fortunate with the locals at my pool hall. Guys our friendly, don't mind answering questions, I know I have been warned to stay away from certain people as well people I am encouraged to play with. I don't gamble and don't have any plans on it. I don't need money only the line to bring out my best game. My ego and pride are enough I do not want to lost to anyone.

But then I hear the other stories about how the old timers won't share information unless you are paying for it. And then you read some other people in this thread saying let them get hustled.

The people getting hustled are pretty important to your local pool room owner. Just as was already stated, they come in to get better, they start bringing friends, they are spending money at the pool hall. Once again helping the industry.

I do not buy this whole if they want to gamble let them, cause at the end of the day they do not know what they are getting themselves into. If that brings excitement watching some low skill lever person get hustled by a better player, Thats pretty sad. And to run them off only hurts the game. And in the end it's why pool has the reputation it does.

People don't come up to me at the golf course and ask if I want to gamble, on the basketball court no one tries to hustle me.

Pool is animal that eats its young
 
Why not just step up, bet high and bust the hustler?

If you can.

Pool halls aren't Sunday schools folks.

No, too often they are cesspits and decent people won't go there. And then we can have a long thread about how pool need to expand. Expanding while dissing the decent folks sounds like a great strategy to me. Everyone knows that the money that drives pool is the money that changes hands between con men and their victims.

The true cost of hustling is that the mentality permeates the pool world.

And did you read the part about how these guys will not bet high and risk getting busted by anyone who seems to know how to hold a cue?

Sorry to say, but the mentality you espouse is exactly the problem.
 
I do not buy this whole if they want to gamble let them, cause at the end of the day they do not know what they are getting themselves into. If that brings excitement watching some low skill lever person get hustled by a better player, Thats pretty sad. And to run them off only hurts the game. And in the end it's why pool has the reputation it does.

People don't come up to me at the golf course and ask if I want to gamble, on the basketball court no one tries to hustle me.

Pool is animal that eats its young

Nailed it. What happens with hustlers isn't gambling it is theft by deception, pure and simple. And the fact that this is the mentality that permeates pool tell you all you need to know about why pool will never be even a fringe spectator sport.
 
It's been my experience that you cannot hustle an honest man bereft of greed. The other persons greed is the soil that the seed of the hustle is planted in.

Great, blame the victim. He selfishly wants a fair game while the other guy is intent on stealing his money. So it must be his own fault.
 
If you don't play the game well enough to know when you are being "hustled", then you shouldn't be gambling at pool.

I can tell the difference in a guy getting "lucky" and a guy who knows how to play.

More justification of blatant dishonesty. The fact that most people here will disagree just illustrates the problem.
 
Back
Top