The USA and a complete lack of killer instinct.

I just figured the national angle.. didn't know of any betting...

Celtic said:
No, Jaden up there said I was choked the Canadian kid lost and that was the reason for the thread...?

Obviously that bet is a part of the thing, but it is not the first match that type of thing has happened in this Bigfoot and it is simply a sign of issues in the game.

People who would ask "who cares how he got there" when it comes to a win. Do you also agree that not practicing with the same focus and control that you plan to compete with? When you mess around in matches like this and barely squeak out a win how does that affect the times when you are playing in a tough match in the world 10-ball championships and you are up on Wu 7-1. You let off on him and suddenly you never get back to the table and you have now lost 13-7. It happens, hell Kou in the finals kept the pressure on and lost from up 16-12 because he never got back to the table after hitting the hill.

People who think it "does not matter" are not aware of WHY a guy like Mosconi completely dominated the sport for so long and was champion for such a long period. He was known to demolish players every chance he got, if he could beat you 150 to -1 he would do it, he destroyed his opponents as badly as he could and kept a psychological edge over them that lasted decades.

That is what a top pro in any sport does. If Tiger Woods can be 10 strokes up on the next closest guy in the Masters then he DOES win by that much, he does not start screwing around and let it get close. If Nadal can win a match in Tennis 6-0 6-1 6-0 then he wins it that bad, he does not start messing around and let his opponent get close. That is the way sport should go, professional players keep the pressure on as best they are able from beginning to end, and if they don't or cannot do it then that is a problem for them. Which is why this thread exists, it clearly "is" a problem for SVB.
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I was just joshing since you're from the same country, hence the use of emoticons to show that I was just joshing ya...

Jaden :grin-square::grin::grin-square:
 
Celtic said:
Did you watch that match? Have you read the thread? That match was discussed on this thread...

Biado did not "let" Ralf back into that match, Ralf TOOK that match out of Biado's hands. Biado had very little control over what happened there.

This is actually part of what I said in the initial post that some people are oblivious to. THIS is why you do not let up on people even for an instant. There are guys out there that you can be beating 7-1, you let off on them for each a instant and you can never get an open shot on a ball for the rest of the match and get yourself beat. You do not let off on people, when you have an opponent down and shooting bad you do everything possible to keep them there, make them pay for every mistake, make those nerves they have increase, make them think you are going to beat them 11-0. You do not let someone up when you have them down, you finish them.

If Biado had one moment in that match where he thought he was good and took it a little easy on Ralf and half assed a shot instead of putting his all into it and that led to Ralf baring down and getting into the gear he got into and demolishing Biado then yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. You don't want to let a person like Ralf have even a slight chance, you don't want to give that guy an inch because no matter how bad you think you are beating on him and no matter how much you think you have the match well in hand he IS dangerous.
Click to expand...

Did you read my post, or click on the link?

It's a match between Biado and Shane (not Souqet), but I appreciate your assessment of the Biado/Souqet match as I didn't get to watch.
 
Celtic said:
In todays match between John Morra and SVB one thing stuck out to me in the so called "comeback" by Morra. SVB had him down 6-1 in a race to 11 and John was missing and under obvious pressure and instead of keeping the pressure on and drilling John 11-1 SVB let up and allowed Morra to get his feet under him, get some confidence, and it suddenly became a very close match tied at 8-8.

I once watched Wu Chia Ching play Morra in the World Junior 9-ball championships and I remember the match very well, it was very similar to the start of this match, Wu took a lead, Morra looked shaky and nervous, and Wu completely obliterated him, he NEVER let John in the match and simply took him apart.

This is a serious weakness not only in SVB but I see it in a lot of American players. They have no killer instinct, they get a huge lead and as often as not they let up and take it easy and give their opponents air. The Taiwanese do not EVER do this, if they can beat you bad they WILL beat you bad. It not only keeps the match safe and gives their opponent no chance to come back, it also sets seeds in that opponents head for the next match, the "remember that last time we played? Yeah that time you lost 11-1? Yeah, just wanted to make sure.".

If SVB does this in a world championships in international competition it is no wonder he loses. You cannot afford to get up 7-1 in a match against another world class player and let up as if you have already won, those guys will take any chance you give them and they can come back on you. When they get SVB down 7-1 do you think they are going to let "him" back up? No chance, they will finish him off as badly as they are able every time and not give him a chance if they can help it.

THIS is why a guy like SVB cannot win at that level, he is too used to letting off on the gas before he is at the finish line. You cannot go through actual pro matches showing a serious lack of drive to win every game and keep the pressure on and then turn that on when you get to Asia to play against the true killers, if you do not practice like that and play like that day in and day out you cannot "create" that killer instinct when you need it.

Seriously weak showing by SVB, win or lose he had a chance to keep this match from ever getting close at all, instead Morra goes to 10-9 and broke on the hill first (the match is still not quite over). I KNOW that a player that has Morra down like he was down and playing like he was playing only had to keep the pressure on and they walk to the finish line. Brutal, weak, that will not work against the top Taiwanese and Filipinos coming at you one after another who are all gunning to run out the whole set on you.
Click to expand...


This is why there are so many stupid threads on az.

Wha is the purpose of posting threads like these?
 
imissedthe9 said:
This is why there are so many stupid threads on az.

Wha is the purpose of posting threads like these?
Click to expand...

The purpose of the thread was to discuss potential weakenesses that may exist in the mindset of otherwise strong players.

These threads devolve into BS because of stupid "posts" like the one you just made. What does it have to do with the actual topic at all? In your huge post count how many times have you ever posted anything on topic and positive? I have gone through some of your most recent contributions to AZB and am having a hard time finding anything. You and posters like you are the reason that actual conversations about actual pool related topics devolve into BS, BS is all you have to add to threads.
 
CreeDo said:
This is the kind of thing where statistics would be able to quickly separate
anecdotal stuff, like "I got this general impression from watching 1 or 2 matches"
from actual valid and insightful observations.

You can say "Seahawks defense at home is outstanding" and there's hard numbers
to back it up. Sadly pool lacks that kind of recordkeeping.

Still, Shane vs. morra (which he won) and TAR 7 are slim evidence
that shane blows leads more than the typical player.
Pool is a game of managing your failures better than the other guy.
Like golf, it is not a game of perfect.

If Shane wins more than Wu, but Wu has a higher percentage of dominating wins,
is it really sensible to say wu's killer instinct tops shane's?

11-2 is not Standard Operating Procedure for any player or country.
It's unusual and only happens when someone has unusually strong play,
or weak play, or abnormal numbers of rolls.
Click to expand...


If I were you I'd be offering WU a good payday, tell him you got a sucker over here in the U.S. That will definitely play him. Perhaps even short races to 15. Like 10 of them in say 3 days. You may make a years salary. But you interet guys never put any cash up to test your theories.

You want to base things on playin guys once in a tourney setting. Or playing on TAR, or AccuStats a paid exhibition, where both players show up already winners.

How bout bring WU, put your money on him and have it bigtruckshow style, FIGHT NIGHT, either SVB or WU one goes home loser. Neutral site, just like those fight night matches. Just a nice worn/broken in table made for action.

I can't imagine you or Celtic or any of the others don't round up a stake and get this done.

SVB has plenty of killer instinct. I doubt any of you that can't play dead or never get in the box and gamble have any idea about killer instinct.
 
Last edited:
Just for the record, here's a list of wins Shane has had in short race formats. The point of this post is this, it's not very common to have lopsided scores when two champions play each other. But Shane can win big, and to think otherwise, is just ridiculous.

2013 US Open 9 Ball
SVB 11 - Shaw 5
SVB 11 - Melling 6
SVB 11 - Petroni 3

2013 US Open 8 Ball
SVB 8 - Deuel 4
SVB 8 - Morra 2
SVB 8 - Cheng 1

2013 Turning Stone
SVB 13 - Archer 5

2013 Ultimate 10 Ball
SVB 10 - J. Jones 4
SVB 10 - Kiamco 2

2013 Andy Mercer Memorial
SVB 6 - J. Jones 0

2012 SBE Championship
SVB 10 - Hundal 1
SVB 10 - Appleton 2
SVB 13 - S. Moore 6

2012 Johnny Archer Classic
SVB 9 - Can Wang 1
SVB 9 - Mike Davis 2

2012 Hard Times 10 Ball
SVB 9 - Eberle 4

2011 Steve Mizerak Championship
SVB 9 - Lombardo 2
SVB 9 - Archer 4

2011 Seminole Florida Pro Tour
SVB 11 - Appleton 6
SVB 9 - Nevel 1
SVB 9 - Morra 3
SVB 9 - Shuff 3
SVB 9 - Archer 5
 
JumpinJoe said:
If I were you I'd be offering WU a good payday, tell him you got a sucker over here in the U.S. That will definitely play him. Perhaps even short races to 15. Like 10 of them in say 3 days. You may make a years salary. But you interet guys never put any cash up to test your theories. [snip] SVB has plenty of killer instinct. I doubt any of you that can't play dead or never get in the box and gamble have any idea about killer instinct.
Click to expand...

Sorry, was my 8 sentence post too much for you work through?
You strike me as one of those guys who is dying to click reply and talk rather than listen.
If you were actually reading the post you quoted, you'd see we don't even disagree.

Let me summarize my post in 2 sentences for you:

"You can't make claims like SVB lacks killer instinct, without hard facts/stats to back it".

"Even if someone like Wu won more matches like 11-2, 11-3, you can't say his
'killer instinct' is better than Shane's, if he doesn't win as often as Shane."

Also, just FYI, it gets old when people are like:
"I'm a super serious hardcore gambler and I'm ready to bet 10k every time
someone posts an opinion on the internet! You nits would never do that!"

Let me know when you've purchased Shane's plane tickets to China
to play Wu a single race to 11, big balla.
 
Seems to be a lot of people posting rant threads or just posts in general after losing bets recently lol :D
 
Celtic said:
In todays match between John Morra and SVB one thing stuck out to me in the so called "comeback" by Morra. SVB had him down 6-1 in a race to 11 and John was missing and under obvious pressure and instead of keeping the pressure on and drilling John 11-1 SVB let up and allowed Morra to get his feet under him, get some confidence, and it suddenly became a very close match tied at 8-8.

I once watched Wu Chia Ching play Morra in the World Junior 9-ball championships and I remember the match very well, it was very similar to the start of this match, Wu took a lead, Morra looked shaky and nervous, and Wu completely obliterated him, he NEVER let John in the match and simply took him apart.

This is a serious weakness not only in SVB but I see it in a lot of American players. They have no killer instinct, they get a huge lead and as often as not they let up and take it easy and give their opponents air. The Taiwanese do not EVER do this, if they can beat you bad they WILL beat you bad. It not only keeps the match safe and gives their opponent no chance to come back, it also sets seeds in that opponents head for the next match, the "remember that last time we played? Yeah that time you lost 11-1? Yeah, just wanted to make sure.".

If SVB does this in a world championships in international competition it is no wonder he loses. You cannot afford to get up 7-1 in a match against another world class player and let up as if you have already won, those guys will take any chance you give them and they can come back on you. When they get SVB down 7-1 do you think they are going to let "him" back up? No chance, they will finish him off as badly as they are able every time and not give him a chance if they can help it.

THIS is why a guy like SVB cannot win at that level, he is too used to letting off on the gas before he is at the finish line. You cannot go through actual pro matches showing a serious lack of drive to win every game and keep the pressure on and then turn that on when you get to Asia to play against the true killers, if you do not practice like that and play like that day in and day out you cannot "create" that killer instinct when you need it.

Seriously weak showing by SVB, win or lose he had a chance to keep this match from ever getting close at all, instead Morra goes to 10-9 and broke on the hill first (the match is still not quite over). I KNOW that a player that has Morra down like he was down and playing like he was playing only had to keep the pressure on and they walk to the finish line. Brutal, weak, that will not work against the top Taiwanese and Filipinos coming at you one after another who are all gunning to run out the whole set on you.
Click to expand...





I saw the end of the finals for the Bigfoot championship. Please tell us more can you???
 
BeiberLvr said:
Just for the record, here's a list of wins Shane has had in short race formats. The point of this post is this, it's not very common to have lopsided scores when two champions play each other. But Shane can win big, and to think otherwise, is just ridiculous.

2013 US Open 9 Ball
SVB 11 - Shaw 5
SVB 11 - Melling 6
SVB 11 - Petroni 3

2013 US Open 8 Ball
SVB 8 - Deuel 4
SVB 8 - Morra 2
SVB 8 - Cheng 1

2013 Turning Stone
SVB 13 - Archer 5

2013 Ultimate 10 Ball
SVB 10 - J. Jones 4
SVB 10 - Kiamco 2

2013 Andy Mercer Memorial
SVB 6 - J. Jones 0

2012 SBE Championship
SVB 10 - Hundal 1
SVB 10 - Appleton 2
SVB 13 - S. Moore 6

2012 Johnny Archer Classic
SVB 9 - Can Wang 1
SVB 9 - Mike Davis 2

2012 Hard Times 10 Ball
SVB 9 - Eberle 4

2011 Steve Mizerak Championship
SVB 9 - Lombardo 2
SVB 9 - Archer 4

2011 Seminole Florida Pro Tour
SVB 11 - Appleton 6
SVB 9 - Nevel 1
SVB 9 - Morra 3
SVB 9 - Shuff 3
SVB 9 - Archer 5
Click to expand...
tHAT
S ABOUT ALL i HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT!!!!!
 
Well I guess there will be an * next to Shane's name in the record books
because the players with the most 'Killer Instinct" didn't play! :nono:
 
naji said:
Everyone's ability to judge and evaluate is limited by the depth of knowledge he or she has. SVB record speaks for itself, in SVB mind he calculates risk based on his experience he has confidence in his ability, this is pool, luck is a factor too. I bet $100 he will dismantle Busty tonight, not sure about Niels though, we know Ralf is not going to make it unless pool God interveens
Click to expand...

Celtic I wish you took me on my bet!!
 
I gotta be honest. Watching the finals last night...
I actually thought for half a second "maybe Celtic has a point".

Niels played almost as perfect as he could when he got chances,
but I think at 10-6? or so, Shane had a chance to put him away,
made his 1, 2, and 3, then he made a seemingly careless error
playing shape and hooked himself on his 4 ball.

Would he have done that if the score were tied?

I dunno, maybe there was something about the shot I didn't see,
but I couldn't see how it was possible to get hooked, if you're being careful.
 
Despite the person above who does not get what I am saying his match with Busty was also one where it showed. He was up 8-3 and let it get back to 8-6. Missed a case 10-ball to win the match, and eventually closed it out at 11-8. And as the commentators made very clear, the balls were not rolling well for Busty at the start, SVB was getting a lot of rolls at the start to build his lead. SVB certainly gave Busty more chances to win then he had to, when you have a guy who ran a 7-pack on the 10-foot table you don't really want him breaking at 8-10 if you can help it, and SVB had a chance to never be there.

That all said, I don't think it was complacency that caused SVB to lose his momentum and drive to get to the finish line against Busty, I think it was nerves. He does not have a good record against Busty in action matches and Busty is one of the few players that can break with SVB and that is dangerous any time he is within a few games.

Ultimately this is what I was talking about. If SVB used his opportunities against the weaker opponents to focus and keep his drive to win every game as high as it is when he is building those leads I think that would help him keep that drive and focus and control his nerves better when he comes into a match like the one with Busty.

But I am crazy, SVB is awesome and he just won the tournament so I clearly don't know WTF I am talking about.
 
Actually...

CreeDo said:
I gotta be honest. Watching the finals last night...
I actually thought for half a second "maybe Celtic has a point".

Niels played almost as perfect as he could when he got chances,
but I think at 10-6? or so, Shane had a chance to put him away,
made his 1, 2, and 3, then he made a seemingly careless error
playing shape and hooked himself on his 4 ball.

Would he have done that if the score were tied?

I dunno, maybe there was something about the shot I didn't see,
but I couldn't see how it was possible to get hooked, if you're being careful.
Click to expand...

I saw the potential to get hooked there. I was looking to do the same things that Shane did on most of his shots and on that shot I was thinking Gotta hit that a little firm or you could end up behind the ten...

Jaden
 
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