The Willie Hoppe Story
- Thread starter iowa_player
- Start date
Super. Thoroughly enjoyed that. How would Hoppe compare to someone like Semih, Blomdahl, or other of today's good players???
Dave
Dave
theEND said:
Your very welcome sir. I really enjoy the vintage video's myself .
SpiderWebComm said:
I can't say for sure but sadly I don't think they could compete with today's players . I wonder what the old school players back in the day would think of all the new pool equipment . Low deflection shafts / Jump cues and such ?
I don't think they use jump cues in billiards. As for low deflection shafts, none of the greats of the past; seemed to have had a problem with that. How much more accurate do you need to be than; Hoppe, Mosconi, Greenleaf, Lassiter, The Knoxville Bear, Jersey Red & many others.
8JIM9
8JIM9
8JIM9 said:
Yeah I wasn't talking about billiards alone . Your right sir . they didn't have any problems with accuracy :smile:
SpiderWebComm said:
Today's players (the Europeans anyway) play much higher averages than Hoppe. The tables are much better - heated slate, very fast and true cloth and cushions. Another poster mentioned better LD cues, but that's not the reason. Billiard players don't use LD cues as such. They use cues with solid maple shafts and a conical taper with a small tip.
The style of play has changed also. Today there is more emphasis on offense and position play and less on defense, perhaps because of the truer tables. Knowledge on how to play certain patterns has increased as well.
Still, Hoppe ran 25 in an exhibition. That's only a little lower than the high runs of today's champions. Maybe that shows what Hoppe could do when he forgot about defense.
The most amazing thing about Hoppe is that he won his first world's championship at 18 and his last at 65. 65!! Then he retired as the reigning world champion. He was the best of his time (though Bob Byrne makes an argument for Welker Cochran in one of his articles). I feel confident that had Hoppe been born in today's era he would be right there competing at the top.
Willie Hoppe & Welker Cochran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQynRebhP1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQynRebhP1Y
nice share 
k:
k:
:yikes:softshot said:THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!
nice find
Thanks for sharing. Now I see where Semih Sayginer gets all those moves from. Hoppe is definately the godfather of billiards exhibition.
However, Semih is very entertaining and I love to watch him do his thing with those billiard balls. But, I have to think that if Hoppe had the same equipment as today he could have done much more also. Still, that is a great video. THANKS!
geo
Dave...Considering that in Hoppe's day, an average of 1.0 was considered "professional level" play, he would get creamed by today's players, who average at least three times that...and in the last world championship, the winner had a grand average of over 5 (astronomically high).
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
That's me
Or more precise, my posting on youtube.
I have several other old videos on there
Well, there are a few mistakes here, as well as some "attitude".
See this link for some actual data on tournament grand averages. As you can see, the winners of the most recent five tournaments had tournament averages of 1.729, 1.782, 1.779, 1.772, and 1.695, not, as you say, "at least three times" an average of 1.000.
You are probably thinking of Dick Jaspers in the 2008 European Three Cushion Championship, where he averaged 5.625 in the final match against Torbjorn Blomdahl. But that was for a set of three 15 point games. Extraordinary, but still just a short match (for these guys). Jaspers' tournament average was 2.169.
As for why averages have improved so much, better equipment (heated tables, very fast cloth and cushions) have led to more emphasis on offense and less on defense. Hoppe tried to leave his opponent safe in case he missed; today's players don't think about missing nearly as often.
Still, it's a fantastic increase in results for a game that doesn't depend on athletic conditioning. But let's give Hoppe his due - he was the best (or one of the two best) in his game, and over a period from age 18 to 65 (when he retired).
We get so caught up in comparing the champions of one era to another. Is it not enough to say that against the competition of the era (using the equipment and knowledge available that era), that Willie Hoppe reigned supreme?!?!? He deserves the accolades he has received.
It is inevitable that future generations will be incrementally better than those that came before. Equipment improves (therefore the conditions for great performance improves) and knowledge increases (each generation adds its own...AND technology allows knowledge to be conveyed much more freely). It is entirely unfair to hold past champions to the standard of today...especially those that had to learn everything the hard way (pre-internet/accustats).
Afterall, we walk the path they helped to pave, benefit from the knowledge they created, and play with the equipment they helped develop.
It is inevitable that future generations will be incrementally better than those that came before. Equipment improves (therefore the conditions for great performance improves) and knowledge increases (each generation adds its own...AND technology allows knowledge to be conveyed much more freely). It is entirely unfair to hold past champions to the standard of today...especially those that had to learn everything the hard way (pre-internet/accustats).
Afterall, we walk the path they helped to pave, benefit from the knowledge they created, and play with the equipment they helped develop.