There is no money in pool???
- Thread starter DefiniteHasBeen
- Start date
Meaning you don't pay taxes on the money spent on those deductible expenses. Doesn't mean you don't pay taxes. I'm no CPA but I did sleep at a Holliday Inn last night.
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lol, am I correct in assuming that you don't know a lot about taxes? I'm by no means an expert, but I have to file taxes for 3 different LLC's, personal income, and handle about 20 different 1099's, 1099Ks, rental incomes, investment incomes, etc..etc..
If something is your actual profession then you can deduct the expenses necessary to further that profession. Plus, Jam just said that they have had experience filing these exact deductions.
any accountant for my money is going to "find" the necessary deductions to maximize my earnings and there are A LOT of deductions that people have no clue about that they can deduct.
If I were a pro I'd deduct table time for practice, mileage to and from the pool room, gas money, all shaft replacements, chalk, tip tools, meals at the poolroom with fans/prospective lesson clients, etc..etc...
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My point is any "will pay no taxes" claims are ridiculous. At the end if the day a "career" in pool is a delusional life of poverty for anyone who tries to make it their sole source of income.
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where did I say that a pro would pay "no taxes"? I said, that good accounting could heavily offset any taxes that a pro would pay. If they let me do their accounting I'd have them reporting a loss and paying no taxes.
And I also still maintain that the expenses to be a professional pool player far, far, far outweigh expenses in most self-employed jobs, because you have to pay to play. And even if you play, you have to come in first, second, or third to break even. So there's a lot of paying.
What's worse is the occupational hazards, such as gambling in casinos and action/challenge matches, come out of the profits of the professional player. The miscellaneous expenses living out of a suitcase is brutal. If you don't have a bottle of Advil on you, you sometimes have to pay $1 per pill, as an example. It adds up, and most people forget to include something like this as a deduction. These are the expenses the cut into the profit too.
By the time you add up the expenses and taxes owed, I maintain that approximately half of that income made shooting pool is gone.
So far in 2014 here are the money winners in men's tennis. The top 100 are all over $50K in 2014 as of today.
1 Stanislas Wawrinka $2,422,490
2 Rafael Nadal $1,680,000
3 Tomas Berdych $938,700
4 Roger Federer $521,210
5 Marin Cilic $456,695
6 David Ferrer $431,225
7 Ernests Gulbis $308,255
8 Andy Murray $302,560
9 Gael Monfils $284,175
10 Fabio Fognini $280,130
1 Stanislas Wawrinka $2,422,490
2 Rafael Nadal $1,680,000
3 Tomas Berdych $938,700
4 Roger Federer $521,210
5 Marin Cilic $456,695
6 David Ferrer $431,225
7 Ernests Gulbis $308,255
8 Andy Murray $302,560
9 Gael Monfils $284,175
10 Fabio Fognini $280,130
that's gross not net...
There's a big difference between gross and net. IF he's putting himself in and IF all his expenses are paid by sponsors, THEN he is making $22K a month. Which is decent money. Taxes must be paid so his take home would be about $16K a month. If he has to pay traveling expenses etc, that's closer to 10K a month if he's lucky. Now the expenses are tax deductible so it would be closer to 12K than 10.
For being the best in the world at something that is nothing. When a fifth string football player that never sees the field outside of practice makes more, that's pretty pathetic.
Jaden
There's a big difference between gross and net. IF he's putting himself in and IF all his expenses are paid by sponsors, THEN he is making $22K a month. Which is decent money. Taxes must be paid so his take home would be about $16K a month. If he has to pay traveling expenses etc, that's closer to 10K a month if he's lucky. Now the expenses are tax deductible so it would be closer to 12K than 10.
For being the best in the world at something that is nothing. When a fifth string football player that never sees the field outside of practice makes more, that's pretty pathetic.
Jaden
Now we're talking turkey. You have hit the nail on the head! :smile:
Of course expenses can be deducted.
Expenses can be deducted in ANY profession. I travel 100% for work and all the expenses, hotels, car rentals, air fare, per diem for food, can ALL be deducted.
A career in pool could be a loss income especially if it is a secondary income. You actually end up net positive from the deductions with another source of income.
So being a professional pool player could be a good thing if you have another income as well.
Jaden
Expenses can be deducted in ANY profession. I travel 100% for work and all the expenses, hotels, car rentals, air fare, per diem for food, can ALL be deducted.
A career in pool could be a loss income especially if it is a secondary income. You actually end up net positive from the deductions with another source of income.
So being a professional pool player could be a good thing if you have another income as well.
Jaden
There's more money in geeetar playing.
Anybody know how much Keith Richards done been paid?
Anybody know how much Keith Richards done been paid?
Iirc, it was said by someone with some tax smarts that fancy accounting- that which led to 0 taxes paid- would only be tolerated by the irs for a few years (3?5?), before one could no longer be permitted to declare the expenses as business.
Consistent failure to declare income that resulted in a tax liability would require the pursuit to be declared a hobby, not a profession
Consistent failure to declare income that resulted in a tax liability would require the pursuit to be declared a hobby, not a profession
good thing you're not an accountant...
That is WRONG. here is accounting 101 for you. A write off is what you are describing meaning that the amount spent is not taxable income. A deduction is when you can deduct the money spent from your taxable income. The deductible expense is not only not taxable income it is deductible FROM your taxable income. So if you made 40K and that is your taxable income and you spent 10K to make that 40K, then your taxable income is 30K. That taxable income amount defines your tax bracket and the percentage that you would then pay.
So if the tax bracket at 40K is 20% and the tax bracket at 30K is 10% then by having a deduction of 10K means that you will pay 3K in taxes versus 8K in taxes.
Now do you understand why a graduated tax system is BS????
That's why people like bill gates create charitable organizations and donate BILLIONS to them. They still have control over that money and the they can deduct the donation amounts from their taxable income by up to 50% of their taxable income.
That means if they made 35 billion dollars that year and donated 30 billion of it to their charity, they are only taxed on 2.5 billion instead of 35 billion but they still have control over 35 billion minus the taxes on 2.5 billion of that. Then as president of the charitable organization, they can buy properties, lease cars etc... with the money from that charity and use those properties as they see fit (within reason).
JAden
That is WRONG. here is accounting 101 for you. A write off is what you are describing meaning that the amount spent is not taxable income. A deduction is when you can deduct the money spent from your taxable income. The deductible expense is not only not taxable income it is deductible FROM your taxable income. So if you made 40K and that is your taxable income and you spent 10K to make that 40K, then your taxable income is 30K. That taxable income amount defines your tax bracket and the percentage that you would then pay.
So if the tax bracket at 40K is 20% and the tax bracket at 30K is 10% then by having a deduction of 10K means that you will pay 3K in taxes versus 8K in taxes.
Now do you understand why a graduated tax system is BS????
That's why people like bill gates create charitable organizations and donate BILLIONS to them. They still have control over that money and the they can deduct the donation amounts from their taxable income by up to 50% of their taxable income.
That means if they made 35 billion dollars that year and donated 30 billion of it to their charity, they are only taxed on 2.5 billion instead of 35 billion but they still have control over 35 billion minus the taxes on 2.5 billion of that. Then as president of the charitable organization, they can buy properties, lease cars etc... with the money from that charity and use those properties as they see fit (within reason).
JAden
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he isnt making 22k a month he made 45k on one of his best two months on the trail. overall i am guessing he doesnt win over 100,000 a year and has expenses to pay of some kind even if sponsored. over all the very best tournament pool players make about what a bus driver makes in a big city. and the bus driver gets benefits to boot.
If a player managed to write off every possible expense, what does he have left? Enough for a comfortable life? How many years do top ten players *net* enough to pay for a house, car, kids' colleges, etc.?
One of the better players here in the PA area is a landscaper, so pool is his "thing". I wouldn't consider him a "pro" at anything but landscaping (which I'm pretty sure he's awesome at).
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Shane has made over 150K in prizes the last several years.
In prize monies, Shane has made over 150K a year for several years. He probably takes home about 100K of that and gets endorsements and some expenses paid etc...But Shane is the top pool prize money maker in the world. That is nothing for the best at something.
The best player at a video game probably makes more than that.
Jaden
In prize monies, Shane has made over 150K a year for several years. He probably takes home about 100K of that and gets endorsements and some expenses paid etc...But Shane is the top pool prize money maker in the world. That is nothing for the best at something.
The best player at a video game probably makes more than that.
Jaden
This is silly. Because one or two guys in the entire profession might gross over $100K, the conclusion is there is money to be made playing pool?
Want to know how to become a millionaire playing pool? Start with $2 million and work your way down.
Want to know how to become a millionaire playing pool? Start with $2 million and work your way down.
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