There is no money in pool???

[Jaden]

The camel pro tour...

Preach on!!
It really is sad.


I was just a teenager then but I remember reading and hearing.....
That the payouts were actually higher in the 80's with the Camel tour?
And that the men pro's really screwed it up.
Also, I think Camel had to drop out because of the big tobacco settlement?

The camel pro tour was in the 90's and it was legislation that outlawed the advertisement of tobacco products that led to them dropping the tour. More nanny state BS...

Jaden

 

[JAM]

I would venture to say that Shane's gambling on pool at least is in the plus column.

John, I ain't talking about solely pool gambling.

 

[cueandcushion]

Last year some kid won $50,000 in a texting championship. Don't really think that means a texting tournament or tour would support an industry, or 100 professional texters. Shane is ONE guy at the top of his game. Those numbers are a bit out of context I think.

 

[JAM]

You can't judge the entire pool industry on one player; namely, Shane. He is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to making a living playing pool professionally. There are many reasons why, most of which have been covered by this forum.

The fact of the matter is the payouts in pool today are the same as they were in the '70s and' 80s era, yet as most know who were alive in the '70s and '80s, the cost of living is five or six times higher today than it was then. In this regard, it costs more money today to compete than it did decades ago.

To play pool professionally, one MUST have a bankroll or a fat stakehorse, because you won't turn a profit at every event you compete in.

The biggest culprit, IMHO, thwarting a so-called "pro player" from making a living is the expenses and/or occupational hazards. The celebrity of being a pro player can be self-destructive for some who cannot handle it. It's the same in the non-pool world. Look at Justin Bieber. Occupational hazards and distractions may have ruined Justin's future career because of public perception. He might be a really nice guy, but his behavior in public, thanks to the media, isn't flattering.

I figured I spent over six figures in pool, give or take a couple dimes. I did give it my all because I enjoyed the experience, but it just wasn't cost effective. In particular, I did not like leaving my dog at home and living out of a suitcase. Screw that!

Today, if me and mine go out to play pool, it will be for pure entertainment and socializing. As far as I'm concerned, professional pool in America is dead. It is not possible to succeed for 99 percent of American pros. And we all know who the 1 percent is. :smile:

 

[Poolshootindon]

Waiting !!!

If someone has a solution please air it out here. I am curious as to what some of you think may work.

Don

I have read all the posts and not one person has come up with an idea for making pool profitable.

Lots of finger pointing and complaining.

There have been many ideas and ventures in the past, but in the long run they all went away.

Idea's???????????????????????



Don

 

[9andout]

The camel pro tour was in the 90's and it was legislation that outlawed the advertisement of tobacco products that led to them dropping the tour. More nanny state BS...

Jaden

Right. They had to drop from some sponsorships and then eventually everything. (Winston Cup was the last I think)

I have read all the posts and not one person has come up with an idea for making pool profitable.

Lots of finger pointing and complaining.

There have been many ideas and ventures in the past, but in the long run they all went away.

Idea's???????????????????????
Don

Need someone "like" Trudeau. haha. BUT with REAL cash and ideas/passion.
Maybe a Mark Cuban type?

 

[poolmouse]

I figured I spent over six figures in pool, give or take a couple dimes. I did give it my all because I enjoyed the experience, but it just wasn't cost effective. In particular, I did not like leaving my dog at home and living out of a suitcase. Screw that!

Today, if me and mine go out to play pool, it will be for pure entertainment and socializing. As far as I'm concerned, professional pool in America is dead. It is not possible to succeed for 99 percent of American pros. And we all know who the 1 percent is. :smile:

That's my view as well. I guess I'm a realist. I have a good job, and I play the game for fun. I really enjoy 14.1, and I would love to learn more about 3 cushion. I love to watch good players, no matter what the game. I love to bust that "I'm going to become a professional pool player" bubble that some younger folks have, unsuccessfully at times though (Ginky).

I don't have a problem with folks who gamble, until they launch into their "I'm a professional <fill-in-the-blank> player" nonsense. Then I speak up. Because reality must suck for some folks who took that wrong turn in their life, and I'm not going to stand by to see another impressionable person mislead by a dillusional "pro pool player". Because reality.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I have read all the posts and not one person has come up with an idea for making pool profitable.

Lots of finger pointing and complaining.

There have been many ideas and ventures in the past, but in the long run they all went away.

Idea's???????????????????????



Don

Allow checking.

 

[9andout]

Everyone has there "If I won the lottery" list. (A big $$$$ one)
One of my ideas is not too common (except maybe on this site)
And it would help the low payouts...................

I would buy / build the ultimate pool room.
I could then host and put up the purse for some great tournaments!

But of course the probability of winning is slim. Especially when you don't play too often.
Damn. But you guys can hold me to it! :grin:

 

[fERrELZ]

To the people who compare earnings in billiards to earnings in bowling , {except snooker} not even close!
Think Foosball !
That is a much closer comparison, they even have tournaments that pay over 100,000.
That's right, Foosball !!!!!

That is BS. There hasn't been a legitimate $100000 foosball tourney in a couple of decades.

Warrior attempted to do a $100000 tourney, but most of the prizes were inflated value tables and jackets. The actual money was nowhere near that.

Even if there was $100000 in a tourney, that is spread out over so many events that it is ridiculous. You typically have:

-open singles
-open doubles
-pro singles
-pro doubles
-semi-pro singles
-semi-pro doubles
-amateur singles
-amateur doubles
-mixed doubles
-women's singles
-women's doubles
-forward shootout
-goalie wars

A top prize in any event will rarely be over $3k

I have played against some of the world's top foosball players. There is only one pro foosball player who makes a decent living solely playing foosball.

 

[fERrELZ]

Everyone has there "If I won the lottery" list. (A big $$$$ one)
One of my ideas is not too common (except maybe on this site)
And it would help the low payouts...................

I would buy / build the ultimate pool room.
I could then host and put up the purse for some great tournaments!

But of course the probability of winning is slim. Especially when you don't play too often.
Damn. But you guys can hold me to it! :grin:

Yeah, every loser who dreams of winning the lottery wants to do something that benefits a cause close to his heart.

Is it any wonder that the majority of lottery winners are dead broke in a few years?

 

[9andout]

"There's no money in pool"
An actual line from the movie by the way.
Found this while checking up on Mars:

Mars Callahan is an actor, director, writer and producer from California. He's probably most known for his work on the classic hustler film, Poolhall Junkies. In 2011 he cashed in 94th place in the World Series of Poker Main Event for $64,531 and his upcoming projects include a sequel to Poolhall called Poker Junkies.

94th place!!! $64K!!! That says it all right there.

 

[9andout]

Apparently there is if you play well enough. Shane made $55,750 in the first 3 months of 2014...

Updated for you. haha.
But I wish it had at least another 0 in it ($$$$) for Shane's sake.

 

[TheMarsMan]

That is WRONG. here is accounting 101 for you. A write off is what you are describing meaning that the amount spent is not taxable income. A deduction is when you can deduct the money spent from your taxable income. The deductible expense is not only not taxable income it is deductible FROM your taxable income. So if you made 40K and that is your taxable income and you spent 10K to make that 40K, then your taxable income is 30K. That taxable income amount defines your tax bracket and the percentage that you would then pay.

So if the tax bracket at 40K is 20% and the tax bracket at 30K is 10% then by having a deduction of 10K means that you will pay 3K in taxes versus 8K in taxes.


JAden

Jaden,
I agree with most of your post but there is a pretty significant error. The way our tax system works is you pay a percentage based on your income and it is a graduated scale. The error comes in where you say in your example that having a 10K deduction would save you 8K in taxes, that would never be the case unless we had a 80% tax bracket.

With your numbers if someone makes 40K they would pay 10% on the first 30K (3K) and 20% on the next 10K (2K) for a total of 5K in taxes. You don't pay the entire amount at the highest bracket just what goes over that amount. So if anything over 40K is taxed at 30% and you make $40,001 only the last dollar is taxed at 30%.

 

[voiceofreason]

He made $22K per month, which would equate to $264K if he stays on that pace for the entire year, imo

Are there enough events for him to achieve this?

 

[JAM]

Also, those medical deductions can be helpful to the self-employed. In particular, medical expenses, 100 percent can be deducted if they total over, I think it is, 7.5 percent of your income. Medical expenses, prescriptions, treatments, and monthly medical insurance payments add up.

If I were a pro player making somewhat decent money, the medical insurance is a must-have because of its deduction.

The limit for the Social Security taxes keeping going up $4,000 a year, but I doubt a pro player has to worry too much about this, either. I'm not sure where it's at now, but it's over 100 grand.

That said, there's only one or two pro players in America that have to worry about this kind of problem. All others would fall most probably on the bottom rung when it comes to taxes, so they really don't have to worry about being taxed too much.

 

[JAM]

...The limit for the Social Security taxes keeping going up $4,000 a year, but I doubt a pro player has to worry too much about this, either. I'm not sure where it's at now, but it's over 100 grand....

I found the cutoff for paying Social Security taxes. For 2014, it is $117,000 ---> HERE

This means that a person who will earn $150,000 in wages in 2014 only has to pay into Social Security on $117,000. There would be no Social Security tax on any wages above $117,000.

The advantage of being an "employee," is that your employer pays half your Social Security taxes each paycheck, which are taken out of your paycheck. The self-employed or freelancers have to pay *all* their own Social Security taxes. Believe me, this can be hefty, and if they do not pay quarterly estimated taxes throughout the year, come April 15th, they owe a big chunk of dough *plus* 9 percent penalty for not paying quarterly taxes on income.