there really WAS an "ames billiards" in nyc
- Thread starter bruin70
- Start date
bruin70 said:
I actually knew a bunch of older players that were rather fond of the joint. Sometimes I wish I was born 50 years earlier.
There was definitely an Ames. Don't remember exactly, but located somewhere around the Broadway and 42nd Street area. I hope that I'm not confusing Ames with the also famous 7/11 that was in the same general area. I believe that the parts of the Gleason/Newman movie, The Hustler, that took place in the poolroom were actually filmed in Ames. If I recall correctly, I believe that it was opened all night, was located one flight up, and was a real rathole, but filled with all the top money players and action at almost every table. Recall, when I was about 17 years old bringing a really good local player, Oscar, and about $150 up there, and as soon as we got to the top of the stairs we were approached by three or four challengers for some play. We must have thought Oscar was a secret weapon, don't even know who he played, but didn't care at the time. Started out playing about $20 a game and Oscar was shooting great, not missing anything makeable and making it look easy, pretty quickly went to $60 - $75 per taking side bets and must have been up about $500 pretty quickly UNTIL Oscar realized how much he was playing for (he was a local $2-$5 player) and just fell apart. By the time we quit, we left with maybe twenty bucks, enough to get a bite and get home.bruin70 said:
Never quite thought as much of Oscar's playing after that. Moral of story: leave the $2 players in the $2 rooms, not Ames.
Nostroke said:
i heard mcgirr's was a real lowlife pimp hangout place. anywoooo, the ames sign points down a side street, and i think mcgirr's was on 8th ave. of course, the sign could have been pointing in the general direction of 8th ave, but signs like that don't work that way
. i'm gonna run through the dvd and grab a screen shot.
ames visit
we were about 16 when the hustler came out. me and my four buddies lived out on Long Island. We decide we had to go see this place. It took two bus rides and a subway ride to get to times square, where it was located. It was one flight up and yes it was sort of a dive but it was AMES. straight out of the movie. they had pics around of Newman and gleason. We hung around for about an hour, and were aproached 2 times to play. we didnt. they tore it down about a year later, but we will always have that memory, im glad we did it.........................steve piesner
we were about 16 when the hustler came out. me and my four buddies lived out on Long Island. We decide we had to go see this place. It took two bus rides and a subway ride to get to times square, where it was located. It was one flight up and yes it was sort of a dive but it was AMES. straight out of the movie. they had pics around of Newman and gleason. We hung around for about an hour, and were aproached 2 times to play. we didnt. they tore it down about a year later, but we will always have that memory, im glad we did it.........................steve piesner
Jude Rosenstock said:
Not me, that would make me 110, 60 is tough enough!
manwon said:
I do. In fact, I have a whole movie of it.
You know, I played all around NYC in the mid 60's and don't remember ever going into or seeing Ames. It may have been there but no one was talking about it.
All the action was in 7-11 and Guys and Dolls (on 50th St.). Other places I remember playing in were McGirrs (downstairs) and Broadway Billiards. They were the main four rooms in midtown Manhattan. Julians was further uptown and mostly for Straight Pool players.
The top players were in 7-11 every day. Jersey Red, Johnny Ervolino, Boston Shorty, New York Blackie and Richie from the Bronx. Also Johnny Irish was in there and Boston Joey. NO ONE ever came in there and got out with the money.
A better spot for shortstops like me was Guys and Dolls. Many good players in here (Pancho, White Cannonball, Little Frankie - a great 14 year old hustler, Country) but also many suckers. I used to gamble with Jerry The Actor, who later became Jerry Orbach, the famous actor on TV. He loved to play and was only average.
McGirrs was a rougher spot (mostly blacks) where you could get robbed. I went in and played some black guy Banks and he beat me. I was done with that spot.
Broadway was not a players room, more for businessman and students. I don't remember ever getting action there, although I tried. I even went up to Julians a couple of times but had no luck finding a game. Everyone wanted to play 14.1.
All the action was in 7-11 and Guys and Dolls (on 50th St.). Other places I remember playing in were McGirrs (downstairs) and Broadway Billiards. They were the main four rooms in midtown Manhattan. Julians was further uptown and mostly for Straight Pool players.
The top players were in 7-11 every day. Jersey Red, Johnny Ervolino, Boston Shorty, New York Blackie and Richie from the Bronx. Also Johnny Irish was in there and Boston Joey. NO ONE ever came in there and got out with the money.
A better spot for shortstops like me was Guys and Dolls. Many good players in here (Pancho, White Cannonball, Little Frankie - a great 14 year old hustler, Country) but also many suckers. I used to gamble with Jerry The Actor, who later became Jerry Orbach, the famous actor on TV. He loved to play and was only average.
McGirrs was a rougher spot (mostly blacks) where you could get robbed. I went in and played some black guy Banks and he beat me. I was done with that spot.
Broadway was not a players room, more for businessman and students. I don't remember ever getting action there, although I tried. I even went up to Julians a couple of times but had no luck finding a game. Everyone wanted to play 14.1.
jay helfert said:
Actually, Julians was downtown from those others, on 14th Street on the same block as the Academy of Music movie theater, on the East Side, maybe near Third Avenue. Lots of tables, including Snooker and billiards, lots of straight pool as well as quite a bit of nine ball action. Julians was the home room of he late George Makula (326 ball run at Chelsea) and I recall a pretty good nine ball player named Prince gambling every time I was there.
Do you remember whether it Ames or 7-11 that was upstairs? I think Ames, but not certain.
jimmyg said:
I just remember that Julians was a ways away from the other spots. I walked it a couple of times. 7-11 was upstairs and so was Guys and Dolls.
Sure there was an Ames, but more importantly, was there really a place called Arthur's? 
In the 1961 film, "The Hustler", Ames was supposedly in Pittsburgh, not NYC...if you'll recall in one of the opening scenes, when Eddie and Charlie stop for gas, they go across the street to a little bar...inside, during that conversation, the bartender (played by Vincent Gardenia) says something like...you'll make Pittsburgh, in 2, maybe 3 hours...".
Anyone remember the scene I'm referencing here...????
Anyone remember the scene I'm referencing here...????
Tommy Joe said:
The only place i ever saw Cosmo was at Johnson City. He came every year in the mid 60's.
Ames
I went to Ames in the summer of '61 right after the movie. Ironically, I travelled there from Pittsburgh. As I recall it was on 46th St., just west of Broadway, up one long flight of stairs. The room was exactly as it was in the movie. I felt as though I was in the tabernacle of pool. The tables were a little worn, so I'm assuming they were at least a generation old. I played rotation with the cook for $2 a game, and he just about busted me.
When I moved to NYC in '67, Ames was gone. We played in another joint which was also near Times Square, and also upstairs in a room with 8-10 bowling lanes. I Don't recall the name of the place, but I think Annigoni wrote about it in his book. Played more often at Amsterdam.
I later played in McGirr's; but it was after I relocated to L.A., and I came back for a visit. I was playing strictly 3C then, and I had an introduction from a good L.A. player to match up passtime with someone my speed at McGirr's. I thought it was a good room, and I enjoyed myself. This must have been in '69. Never got to Guys and Dolls, which I regret...
Doc
I went to Ames in the summer of '61 right after the movie. Ironically, I travelled there from Pittsburgh. As I recall it was on 46th St., just west of Broadway, up one long flight of stairs. The room was exactly as it was in the movie. I felt as though I was in the tabernacle of pool. The tables were a little worn, so I'm assuming they were at least a generation old. I played rotation with the cook for $2 a game, and he just about busted me.
When I moved to NYC in '67, Ames was gone. We played in another joint which was also near Times Square, and also upstairs in a room with 8-10 bowling lanes. I Don't recall the name of the place, but I think Annigoni wrote about it in his book. Played more often at Amsterdam.
I later played in McGirr's; but it was after I relocated to L.A., and I came back for a visit. I was playing strictly 3C then, and I had an introduction from a good L.A. player to match up passtime with someone my speed at McGirr's. I thought it was a good room, and I enjoyed myself. This must have been in '69. Never got to Guys and Dolls, which I regret...
Doc
gulfportdoc said:
Doc...Just a note, but Annagoni didn't write the book...McCumber did. Tony was just the player, that McCumber staked on the trip, and wrote about.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
PoolBum said:
Sure they played each other quite a bit, because sometimes they couldn't get any other game.
Jersey Red was top dog at One Pocket, but couldn't give more than 9-8 to Shorty or Ervolino. If he could get on the table, Shorty would beat everyone.
Richie Ambrose was probably the best 9-Ball player in the bunch, just a hair over the others. And Ervolino was the best at Straights.
If they all started matching up and gambling though, Ervolino would usually get the cash. He gambled better than anyone else for high stakes. You could kind of tell he was top dog around there, everyone deferred to him if there was any serious action.
Some nights I remember watching them play partners One Pocket for maybe 20 a man. They would laugh and joke and rib each other, and make great shots. Blackie and Red were hilarious. Funnier than any comedians I ever saw on TV.
I think Red was the best player of the bunch, but Ervolino could make him dog it a little. It was probably a toss up between those two when they gambled. I saw many players (including me just once) come in and try to play these guys, but once they got them on that tight pocket 10' table by the counter, it was all over.
I don't think Lassiter, Ronnie, Kelly, Taylor or Cornbread was too anxious to come in there and play these guys on their home court. If you somehow beat one guy, there were three more waiting in the wings just as good, if not better. I was around there for over a year and I never heard of anyone beating Red or Johnny at 7-11.