Thick Glass as table top material to replace slate?

christopheradam

christopheradam

Christopher Adams
Silver Member
Why could a thick Glass material not be used as a pool table material to replace slate. Is slate more flat. Slate less likely to expand and contract? Also how about concrete. Could you set up a form, get concrete poured in the form to have your table top material?

I know a thin layer of glass could not be used. Just imagine a masse shot and the whole table just shatters :). Would be good for TV though. Just like those backboards shattering when the basketball players dunk sometimes.
 
14.1player said:
I hear Italian glass is more lucky, moreso than Brazilian concrete....
Click to expand...

How about this. We use a mirror for the table top. Get some new "see through clear" felt and now you can see the image of the balls moving around the table as you shoot. That would be weird and kinda cool to try out :).
 
I suspect that very thick glass would be very expensive. It's also the same as steel in that it may be hard, but it's still brittle. Glass can/will shatter due to stress just as easily as it will shatter from a hard hit.
 
bullet proof glass

Hal said:
I suspect that very thick glass would be very expensive. It's also the same as steel in that it may be hard, but it's still brittle. Glass can/will shatter due to stress just as easily as it will shatter from a hard hit.
Click to expand...



It would be interesting to take, bank teller drive up type (bullet proof) glass as your table bed, could be fun. Don't think 'that' would chip easily.
 
christopheradam said:
Why could a thick Glass material not be used as a pool table material to replace slate. Is slate more flat. Slate less likely to expand and contract? Also how about concrete. Could you set up a form, get concrete poured in the form to have your table top material?

I know a thin layer of glass could not be used. Just imagine a masse shot and the whole table just shatters :). Would be good for TV though. Just like those backboards shattering when the basketball players dunk sometimes.
Click to expand...

They could also create the table bed out of the same material as the billiard balls. How about boring out spots and filling it with sand, we could have sand traps too.

Kidding aside, there must be some material that can be used that is better than slate or marble.
 
christopheradam said:
Also how about concrete. Could you set up a form, get concrete poured in the form to have your table top material?
Click to expand...
I am no engineer, but I would say that you have to keep the temperature in the room VERY stable to prevent cracking....you have seen sidewalks, garage/basement floors with cracks? And being that the concrete on the table is "floating" I see that it is more likely to cracking being the temperature circulates underneath....like a bridge...or would that prevent the cracking?? :confused:

WWIW, at VF there was a company who was selling tables that were marble topped. I really didn’t have the opportunity to look at them good. Does anyone else have any experience with these tables??
 
Glass shattering break!

I work with glass for a living and just about the thickest glass you could get ahold of would only be 3/4" thick. Fabricating it would be expensive and you'd still run the risk of breaking it even if you had it tempered. But conceivably it could be done. The 'bullet proof' stuff (technically called 'bullet resistant' -don't
wanna get sued... especially here in California) is Lexan.. basically plastic. While stronger it scratches pretty easily. Also melts pretty easily.. if you ever wanna rob a bank go in with a propane torch. But you didn't hear it from me. *cough* I'll check with a vendor for kicks and see how much it would cost to have this made. Anyone have any dimensions?
 
Hal said:
I suspect that very thick glass would be very expensive. It's also the same as steel in that it may be hard, but it's still brittle. Glass can/will shatter due to stress just as easily as it will shatter from a hard hit.
Click to expand...

Brittle steel? You're mis-informed, or every building over 4 stories is due to come down any day now. And think of the cars shattering when they're t-boned. Glass yes, steel no.
 
Fat Ivory said:
Brittle steel? You're mis-informed, or every building over 4 stories is due to come down any day now. And think of the cars shattering when they're t-boned. Glass yes, steel no.
Click to expand...
I was comparing glass to the equivelant of heat treated steel. Heat treated steel is brittle and will shatter like glass. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's strong. I'm a metal worker and a machinist. I am definitely not mis-informed.
 
Last edited:
"No matter how tool steels are quenched, the resulting martensite is extremely brittle, and under great stress. If put into service in this condition, most tool steels would shatter. Some tool steels may even crack spontaneously if allowed to remain for any time in this condition. For this reason, as soon as tool steels have been quenched to about 125/150øF, they should be immediately tempered.


Tempering is performed to stress relieve the brittle martensite formed during the quench. Most steels have a fairly wide range of acceptable tempering temperatures (see table). For best relief of quenching stresses, use the highest tempering temperature which will give the desired hardness.


Most tool steels must be tempered at least 2 times, with triple tempering recommended for high alloy grades or high hardening temperatures. The rate of heating to or cooling from the tempering temperature is not critical, except sudden drastic temperature changes should be avoided. Tool steel should be allowed to cool completely to room temperature (50/75øF) between tempers."

Here is some more reading for your tool steel hardening enjoyment.

http://www.easterntoolsteel.com/hea_treatment_of_toolsteels.htm

http://www.balisongcollector.com/rockwell.html

http://www.swords-and-medieval-collectibles.com/swordinfo.html

Incidentally, Lexan although very strong is very light weight and in my opinion would give the same effect as a "honeycomb" slate table from Sears.
 
Last edited:
A friend, fellow pool player, and owns a glass shop offered to make a 3/4 tempered glass playing surface for free. I had 7 bar tables at the time. We talked about it several times. He felt there is no way it will break. Could be but there are extremes although he didn't seem concerned.

One thing that kept popping in my mind was glass sweats. In humid conditions it could be a problem. Aside from that slate works great, and it can be re-machined. Both still are heavy as hell so no real advantage either way. The cloth on either surface - when true - is more of a factor than either, especially if not stretched correct.

When you play pool you make stroke changes to overcome descrepancies in the surface, level etc. if any. A good pool player really has no problem with adjusting to conditions to an extent. I doubt something will replace slate in the near future because of all its advantages. To bad I never at least took him up on the offer though, but there are other owners of glass companies I'd imagine who play pool.

Rod
 
slate steel glass

I have been a billiard mechanic for the last ten years and would like to put my two cents worth in, so here we go... Slate comes in a lot of various forms- what i consider to be slate is a natural rock substance than has a few charisitics that make it desireable. 1. it is porous. this allows the slate to suck moisture away from the cloth. 2. it is flexable. meaning as you set up a table you can manipulate a piece of slate (useing wedges) to correct any defects in the slate. 3. Italian slate has a tendency to break in layers . Alot of Brazialian or other slate is much more chrystalin lending twords non-plyabile.
I have seen many different materials that geolocically quallify as slate. Glass is non porous and too brittle. Steel rusts. My two cents worth. marble to too hard and often not plyable as slate is. IMHO Simonis 860 is the shit. period. most of my residential work I use 21 oz. Mali. most pool table owners have no clue what or why with the Simonis. Point being ... Simonis will show every defect in a table (the slate) or the shot( players shooting abilty). I strongly recommend against Simmonis on an antique due to the fact that that slate milling technologies were not as accurate as modern milling technologies.
 
Last edited:
Rodd

If your buddy will do a table for free you should try it. All engineering is done by trial and error and testing. After you do this you will have the answers and not just assumptions.

Henry Ford would not believe anyone unless he seen it. He came up with a idea of using concrete instead of wood for railroad ties. He was tired of replacing the wood ties under the tracks of his rail lines. He was told it would not work. He said try it. They built one mile of track with concrete ties. The train came down the track and jump off because of the vibration. He just walked away and did not say a word.
 
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that regardless of the glass, it **will** move. Glass is not really so much a solid as it is a super-cooled liquid. It will flow. You can make it flat, but it will deform ever so slightly with time.


My choice for a composite would lean toward ceramics.

Natural stone, like granite and slate are still going to be much more cost effective than anything we can make that will perform nearly as well.
 
Last edited:
Hal said:
I was comparing glass to the equivelant of heat treated steel. Heat treated steel is brittle and will shatter like glass. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's strong. I'm a metal worker and a machinist. I am definitely not mis-informed.
Click to expand...

No insult intended. It's just my thinking that as far as the OPs question went, mild steel is far more suitable than D-2 heat-treated to 62Rc.
 
Fat Ivory said:
No insult intended. It's just my thinking that as far as the OPs question went, mild steel is far more suitable than D-2 heat-treated to 62Rc.
Click to expand...

Something I know just a little about :)

Steel in general would rust, regardless of hardness. High-speed tool steel just makes very expensive rust.

IMO, mild steel would be hard enough for a playing surface even at Rc 30-35.
For even a 3 piece surface, it would be really, really expensive to use die grade steel and harden it to Rc 60+.....and also very brittle.

All of your non-ferritic steels are going to be astronomical in price.



Natural materials are sounding better all the time :D


Dave
 
I agree with Fat Ivory and Mr. Wilson. In no way was I endorsing steel, D-2, A-2, Hot or Cold Rolled, Stainless, Drill Rod, Thompson shaft material or whatever it may be to be used as pool table material. I was merely taking issue with the post that steel isn't brittle.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Wilson said:
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that regardless of the glass, it **will** move. Glass is not really so much a solid as it is a super-cooled liquid. It will flow. You can make it flat, but it will deform ever so slightly with time.


My choice for a composite would lean toward ceramics.

Natural stone, like granite and slate are still going to be much more cost effective than anything we can make that will perform nearly as well.
Click to expand...

See, these Dave fellows are very smart and clever ! Glass will absolutely 'flow' at room temperature. How much / how fast are the questions ... thin glass will deform rather quickly relative to the life of a pool table, thick glass will take longer. It will sag into the gaps in the pool table frame. Now if you supported it completely, say on a piece of well milled slate, it would be fine. Tempering the glass will make it stiffer, but the nice flat sheet of untempered glass may not be so flat after tempering.

I gotta think that the long term stability of slate is very good. It can be machined quite easily. Granite is so stable that it is commonly used in industry for 'surface plates' level references (I have a cheap one 9" x 12" x 2", flat to 0.0001", you can get them much bigger and much flatter for much more $). But if transparency is the desire, my vote would be for a very thick (12" ?) piece of cast acrylic. Machine the top flat, polish as required, and away you go.

Dave
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top