Threading wood buttplate
- Thread starter digdug
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Don't know what's so hard about putting a name for a signature.
It doesn't need to be threaded but I would core it with phenolic.
It doesn't need to be threaded but I would core it with phenolic.
Coco is an oily wood. Depending on the epoxy used you could get away with no threads but why take a chance? Do things that you will never have to wonder about for the rest of the cues life. I thread every collar on every cue whether phenolic or wood. Takes just a short time longer for peace of mind forever.
Screwed and glued.
Although there is no reason to thread those parts because glues are strong enough. But to be safe, i would advice to screwd and glued it..to remove those anxieties as well..
Mechanical bond rules.
Mechanical bond if you use Epoxy on Coco.
Coco is one of the few woods that epoxy doesn't bond to. There are better glues then Epoxy when working with Coco.
like what?...jer
threading or gluing cocobola
A mechanically threaded joint gives extra gluing surface area and a mechanical binding that glue alone will not. An acetone wash and dry just before gluing will remove some more of the thread surface oils, also. Slow drying epoxies will penetrate the wood fiber some before setting completely too. All these will add to the joint longevity.
A well glued and tenoned joint by itself will last a long time by itself.
How much effort you put in is your choice. It's your reputation.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues
A mechanically threaded joint gives extra gluing surface area and a mechanical binding that glue alone will not. An acetone wash and dry just before gluing will remove some more of the thread surface oils, also. Slow drying epoxies will penetrate the wood fiber some before setting completely too. All these will add to the joint longevity.
A well glued and tenoned joint by itself will last a long time by itself.
How much effort you put in is your choice. It's your reputation.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues
Hmmm, I actually do several cues with wooden collars, including cocobolo. I don't thread them. They aren't falling apart or falling off, even when abused. Contrarily, the only butt cap issues I get are broken caps from abuse, the player slamming the cue to the floor after missing a shot. The butt caps don't come off, they explode at the counter sink area while the glued portion stays intact with the cue. That gives me piece of mind, seeing a technique actually survive even through severe abuse. Regardless if it's threaded or pressed, if it's abused it'll break. And logically speaking, if the glue can break bond in a press fit collar, then why would the same glue not break bond in a threaded collar? If the bond on the press fit collar breaks enough for it to fall off, then logic tells me if it breaks that much on a threaded collar then it could loosen & unthread. The glue & the fit make the difference, fellas, not the technique. Like all other cue related topics, it's not how you do it but how well you do it. JMO
I have tested what glues best work with all the woods I commonly use. Epoxy doesn't bond to Coco. Removing the oils from the glue surfaces helps. Damp Coco and Gorilla glue is the best. Titebond and Super glue are better with Coco then Epoxy.
A few month back I started a thread to share my first test results. I haven't shared my recent tests with anybody but have 100% proven to myself Epoxy doesn't bond to Coco. It sticks but doesn't bond. I have Coco cues in customers hands that I used Epoxy to build. They are fine to date but they were not glued with the best material possible. I don't use Epoxy on Coco after experimenting with the material.
I have a perfect example of Epoxy and Coco failing. I'll call the guy and take pictures of his cue. It's a failed A-joint of Coco and Epoxy.
If you have tested and found different results then my tests please share them with me.
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One more reason to thread.
The threads and vertical grooves make the bond a formality.
When the epoxy hardens up, the sleeve cannot spin.
Most of the problems I have seen with cues is not with the way they are assembled, the technique or the glue that was used. It was player abuse. Plain and simple. The most common abuses are slamming the cue down on the floor after missing the shot or smashing it against the table. No cue, no matter how well it is made will survive much of this kind of abuse. Another bad is leaving the cue in the trunk of the car where it can get so hot that the glue will fail.
My advise is that if you have a cue that you like then take care of it and it will serve you well. And if you miss a shot accept responsibility for missing and don't blame it on anyone or anything else.
My advise is that if you have a cue that you like then take care of it and it will serve you well. And if you miss a shot accept responsibility for missing and don't blame it on anyone or anything else.
My experiments result in similar results. I will say that tollerances play the deciding factor in glue strength & bond. I'll take a machine press fit with thinned adhesive anytime over threaded parts with lots of void area that fills with epoxy. I won't get into my reasoning for it as it's for a different thread, but i'd put the strength of my tight tollerance press fit against any threaded. The only things I want threaded on my cues anymore is the ferrule & "A" joint, and the threads in those areas are only virtual internal clamps while the adhesive cures. I don't think of or utilize threads as "security". I'm already secure with how I build my cues. I just haven't ever been afraid of things falling off my cues & I have never been faced with a reason to be. As stated, my buttcaps certainly break, but my glue bond doesn't. Phenolic shreds apart, leaving a phenolic liner around the tenon because it won't separate from it. When it does come off, it brings wood with it. That's piece of mind enough for me.
I guess we all do things differently based on the way our brains approach the challenges we're faced with. I think that's a good thing.
Hi Scott; Back in the 80's I tested all kinds of glues on Maple, Ebony & Cocobolo. I found that I liked the Epoxy family of adhesives, the best. Of course, I had never heard of Gorilla Glue back then. I also found, that if I scored the surfaces to be glued & drilled small, shallow holes in the glued surfaces, I had no failures. Also with Cocobolo or any oily wood , if I wiped the surfaces with lacquer thinner, I had the best results. The drilled holes act like small keyways, that fill with glue & then harden to help secure the parts. I also use this system on my "A" joints (in the end grain), with no buzzes, that I have ever heard of. I'm old & set in my way, but I don't seem to have a problem. THANKS for the info...JER
We are similar in thought. Epoxy is my preferred glue as well. You know as well as I do that Epoxy doesn't bond to some woods. You've learned techniques to ensure the bond you feel comfortable with on these wood flavors. Threads, drilled holes, or whatever techniques a builder uses all do the same thing. Mechanical bond.
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Nobody questioned your technique. Your answer was to slide it on tight and use Epoxy. I respect your theories on gluing a Coco butt cap and joint.
I'd like to help the OP and mention this. A tight fit creates internal pressure that can split the wood so you should be careful how tight the parts fit. Press fit is a technique used with metal or plastic where no adhesive is used. The OP needs to be attentive when trimming the part and make sure they are snug. Too tight will create problems. Trimming part to fit perfect is slow and tedious at first but gets better after practice. It's very important so learn to do it!!!!!!!!
Tolerances are very important. Glue penetration is critical and might be more important in some situations.
If your wood isn't 100% stable with a snug (pressed) fit and it shrinks in the tiniest amount the wood will split some day when the cue is bounced on the ground.
Coco will shrink for years. I don't think a new builder with minimal time on his Coco should tight fit Coco in these two places. I think he should go with Phenolic.
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