Tight Pockets
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
Amen. We bemoan why pool has a problem attracting new players all the while making the table less satisfying for beginners to play on. I don't care who you are but when you're just starting out, hitting balls on a table and not making anything gets old in a hurry. Can't really blame them for moving on to something else.
Last edited:
There are other ways to look at this.....
,,,fast cloth makes more things POSSIBLE......spin stays on longer....
...balls cut thinner....you can hold for position on a thin cut better...because of greater
object ball speed.
Fast cloth ALLOWS everyone to play better...and that's a good thing...IMO
I hear some players in my area gettin' all nostalgic about the old slow cloth...
....I ask them if they ask the golf courses to stop mowing the greens and fairways too much.
pt...has played on slower cloth than most pool players...and hated it...:angry:
I have 12-14 Teams playing out of our Tavern. When it was getting time to recover the 3-Diamond Bar Boxes we had lots of requests to tighten the pockets. We sent a letter out to all the team captains as to everyone's thoughts on it. We had a huge majority wanting them tightened so we went from 4.5" down to 4.25", they call it their home field advantage. Brian.
Most of what you said I agree with..it makes pool easier.There are other ways to look at this.....
,,,fast cloth makes more things POSSIBLE......spin stays on longer....
...balls cut thinner....you can hold for position on a thin cut better...because of greater
object ball speed.
Fast cloth ALLOWS everyone to play better...and that's a good thing...IMO
I hear some players in my area gettin' all nostalgic about the old slow cloth...
....I ask them if they ask the golf courses to stop mowing the greens and fairways too much.
pt...has played on slower cloth than most pool players...and hated it...:angry:
I dont agree about holding s thin cut for position. Wool is much easier to hold or 'kill' whitey than slidy 860. My point is, 'they' made pool easier with 860, lively balls,etc
then cried when lesser players played better ( with little or no stroke....'Rollers not strokers ). Now , 'they' want to tighten up pockets so nobody can run out.
A great friend of mine once said 'if you change the rules & equipment enough, we'll be playing ping-pong!'. You da man Freddy B.
And, about golf, most amateurs would be lost on a pro setup course. Tight fairways,
greens at 13+ on the stimpmeter.....they couldn't come close to their handicap.
I've played at Congressional CC right after the kemper open. Super tight lies, 13+ greens, I played well . As a 4 handicap, I shot 94 in the morning and 89 in the afternoon,
The 2 scratch golfers with me couldn't break 83.
At the PGA in Southern Hills a few yrs ago, Tiger said that a 10 handicap couldn't break 100. I'm sure he was right.
And, Poolmanis, when have players gotten better? This BS that todays players are better than the players of the 60's & 70's is just that,,,BS.
Buddy Hall could play 9 ball with anyone today.Ronnie Allen & Eddie Taylor could play anyone 1 pkt. And nobody in the world could play Eddie Taylor bank pool.
I don't think we are that much different in our view, except maybe semantically.
It's not all that relevant whether it's easier to run out or not.
Your duty, when you compete, is to beat your opponent...pool is a war game.
I have played snooker on 40 oz. cloth...players are forced to play conservatively because many options are not available...to anyone...it makes it an ugly game.
I have played 9-ball on cloth so dirty, I started playing safe on the break...ugly also.
I would rather play a beautiful game...win or lose.
The modern snooker pros are playing on much faster cloth, and the difference in play is stunning....they are doing things that weren't possible on the old 40 oz. cloth and the game is much better for it.
Yes, it sounds like we played on some of the same tables..lol. I never played snooker,
but I have played 9 ball and banks on a snooker table. It seemed to me that they were faster even then * 60's 70's ' than most pool tables. My problem with the way pool is going is that the equipment is pulling most amateurs games closer together. I worked a long time to make a powerful stroke, now I have to cut it in half ( or 'kill' whitey on most shots ).To me ,its no fun having to 'chimch' balls on super tight pkts or play safe
( which should never have been put into 9 ball ).
Thanks for your views.
Tc
Poolmanis...Just FYI (I don't know about Finland), here in the USA a 4.5" pocket is considered a tight/standard professional pocket size. MOST professional tournaments are played on this size pocket, with few exceptions. 4" pockets are ridiculously tight, and don't allow the games to be played like they should.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I used to have a couple of really good players come over and play with me. But they both died of cancer. Here in SW Indiana there's just not much in the way of serious pool players. I went to a league night in a town of about 12,000 that's 20 miles down the road about a year or so ago and sort of watched. Didn't take me long to realize it was a joke.
After playing on Nick Varner's Gold Crown V at his store I decided I needed tighter pockets. 5 inch pockets were buckets and I had a difficult time with some shots on Nick's table that was 4.5 inches. If there is ever any kind of pro tournament within a few hours from me I would probably participate. But it cant be during High School Basketball season because that is my #1 passion and commitment.
r/DCP
I agree with Scott here. I could be mistaken but I believe this was mentioned by Billy Incardona on an Accu-Stats video from the Sands Regency Tournament in Reno back in the mid 1990s. Assume it hasn't changed in the last 20 years.
I am rattling some shots on my new 4.25 inch pockets that I had looked away from because I knew I made them. But that's sort of a good thing as now I cant really take any shot for granted and probably need to stay down and finish the shot better. If Earl hadn't taken position off the 5-Ball to the 6-Ball for granted in the Challenge of Champions against Bustamante years ago he might be $50,000 richer today.
r/DCP
You aren't that far from terre haute and evansville, lot of pool players, plenty of tournaments around the SW part of indiana as well.
If you enjoy playing games against yourself, nothing wrong with it, but pocket size should be whatever you feel comfortable with.
Well, don't misunderstand or misquote me here, but.......I don't have any desire to play in a 4th of July 8-Ball tournament in Newburgh, Indiana at the American Legion. When I said tournaments I am talking the big ones. I would lose 11-0 twice but that would be a good experience, to go and play in one and hang around.
r/DCP
Have you tried any of the ones at phat guys or lags? Believe both of those wouldn't be that far from you.
Did you go play at the Derby this year, it isn't that far from you. Just curious.
And of course Brickyard has several good tournaments every year, and most of the best players in the state show up.
I guess I need to say this again since apparently I wasn't clear enough. I am talking about big tournaments, professional tournaments, not those that you are talking about. I hope I don't have to say it a 3rd time.
And as I said in a previous post, and about the Derby, I said it cant be a tournament during High School Basketball season. Which is when both the Derby and Music City Open are ran.
r/DCP
Tight pockets are the future. I hate them, but I have to face the reality. So I'm practicing on the tightest table we have here, which is 4 1/4 inches I believe. I have not measured it. It's a GC and there are several of them in the poolhall, which frequently hosts major tournaments. Fortunately the tables are level, and fairly well maintained, but sadly they are dirty (which causes a lot of skids).
All it does is force me to play the game differently. If the ball is on the rail, and I'm a long distance from it, I can't draw back far. If I do, the ball rattles. I was in a tournament recently and I was faced with a situation where I knew the right shot, but I couldn't shoot it, because it was too low of a percentage, this was an open shot, but close to the rail, and needing some power and spin. Even a good shot of this kind will often rattle. Stupid. Just stupid. I knew I couldn't miss this shot (or any shot) against the guy I was playing, so I cinched it and had to play safe. My only thought was "This is F-ing lame!"
You will also rattle a LOT of rail break shots in 14.1, even some break shots that are not on the rail. So it forces a very careful 14.1 game. Gently picking off balls and only blasting the break when you have a shot directly diagonal into the pocket. This is mostly my style anyway, but I don't like having it forced upon me. I'm playing bunters and stun shot artists now. The strokers have all switched styles.
There was another situation too, in a straight pool tournament, where a ball rattled and ended up the pocket point frozen to the rail and effectively blocked it, where on a standard Gold Crown, the pocket would be available. Several times the lack of ability to cheat the pocket came up and changed plans. Mostly it's a cinching game. Stop, stop, stop, draw 2 inches, safe...And I hope you like rolling your cueball...A lot. Otherwise, you are in for a surprise. Fast rails + tight pockets =...you do the math.The best players will still run a lot of balls, fewer than they would otherwise, of course, but if you break open the rack and the balls end up funny, there is a great chance you might have to play safe, where on a normal table you could do something more aggressive.
For 8 ball it mostly doesn't matter to the game itself, but you get a lot more dry breaks, making the game even more about the break than before. 9 and 10 ball are fairly unharmed. You won't see a lot of power shots, though. Again, it's nice to see one, every once in a while. On these tables, the winners are the ball pocketing machines. Especially since the tight pockets are paired with short- and fast banking rails. The creative position players are losing ground. Everyone is just cinching balls a lot more. To me it's detracting from the beauty of the game, in a major way.
All it does is force me to play the game differently. If the ball is on the rail, and I'm a long distance from it, I can't draw back far. If I do, the ball rattles. I was in a tournament recently and I was faced with a situation where I knew the right shot, but I couldn't shoot it, because it was too low of a percentage, this was an open shot, but close to the rail, and needing some power and spin. Even a good shot of this kind will often rattle. Stupid. Just stupid. I knew I couldn't miss this shot (or any shot) against the guy I was playing, so I cinched it and had to play safe. My only thought was "This is F-ing lame!"
You will also rattle a LOT of rail break shots in 14.1, even some break shots that are not on the rail. So it forces a very careful 14.1 game. Gently picking off balls and only blasting the break when you have a shot directly diagonal into the pocket. This is mostly my style anyway, but I don't like having it forced upon me. I'm playing bunters and stun shot artists now. The strokers have all switched styles.
There was another situation too, in a straight pool tournament, where a ball rattled and ended up the pocket point frozen to the rail and effectively blocked it, where on a standard Gold Crown, the pocket would be available. Several times the lack of ability to cheat the pocket came up and changed plans. Mostly it's a cinching game. Stop, stop, stop, draw 2 inches, safe...And I hope you like rolling your cueball...A lot. Otherwise, you are in for a surprise. Fast rails + tight pockets =...you do the math.The best players will still run a lot of balls, fewer than they would otherwise, of course, but if you break open the rack and the balls end up funny, there is a great chance you might have to play safe, where on a normal table you could do something more aggressive.
For 8 ball it mostly doesn't matter to the game itself, but you get a lot more dry breaks, making the game even more about the break than before. 9 and 10 ball are fairly unharmed. You won't see a lot of power shots, though. Again, it's nice to see one, every once in a while. On these tables, the winners are the ball pocketing machines. Especially since the tight pockets are paired with short- and fast banking rails. The creative position players are losing ground. Everyone is just cinching balls a lot more. To me it's detracting from the beauty of the game, in a major way.
Last edited:
15 months ago, I had my gold crown rails modified/sub rails extended for 4 1/4 corners, 4 3/4 sides. I have put in quite a few hours in drills and practice.
The benefits are my shot making accuracy has honed a bit. However, since there is less room to cheat the pocket and create an angle when not much is there, I find myself increasing speed of shot to stun out the few precious inches from a slight angle, instead of create a bigger angle and go some extra rails.
I'd have to say the game is definitely played differently as many have stated here. In hindsight, I would've just had them adjusted to 4.5" like diamond specs which I believe are fair and right for the game.
The benefits are my shot making accuracy has honed a bit. However, since there is less room to cheat the pocket and create an angle when not much is there, I find myself increasing speed of shot to stun out the few precious inches from a slight angle, instead of create a bigger angle and go some extra rails.
I'd have to say the game is definitely played differently as many have stated here. In hindsight, I would've just had them adjusted to 4.5" like diamond specs which I believe are fair and right for the game.
So, the future of the game is smaller pockets, cinching balls, stunning the ball, rolling the ball, ducking and hiding, more safes, less risk taking.
To hell with all of that! That is a recipe for boring....driving people away.
Pool is a local sport first. I could care less what the rest of the world does. My room defines what pool is in my town, not Diamond, not the WPO, not BCA. I want pool to be full of risk taking, exciting, full of rewards for risk, and fun. The rest of the USA can drive this game into the gutter. Not me. I know what JOE POOL PLAYER wants. He wants to shoot balls into the hole!...and that goes for poolplayers at every level.
I believe the doctrine of Jay Helfert. The cream comes to the top no matter what the game, no matter what the rules, no matter what the race length, and no matter what the equipment. If this is the case, then let's NOT tighten the game down to miserable, Pool is hard enough.
My tables are 4 3/4 pockets, the way it was before the pool depression. I will NOT fall in line. No complaints about the games popularity here.
To hell with all of that! That is a recipe for boring....driving people away.
Pool is a local sport first. I could care less what the rest of the world does. My room defines what pool is in my town, not Diamond, not the WPO, not BCA. I want pool to be full of risk taking, exciting, full of rewards for risk, and fun. The rest of the USA can drive this game into the gutter. Not me. I know what JOE POOL PLAYER wants. He wants to shoot balls into the hole!...and that goes for poolplayers at every level.
I believe the doctrine of Jay Helfert. The cream comes to the top no matter what the game, no matter what the rules, no matter what the race length, and no matter what the equipment. If this is the case, then let's NOT tighten the game down to miserable, Pool is hard enough.
My tables are 4 3/4 pockets, the way it was before the pool depression. I will NOT fall in line. No complaints about the games popularity here.
Last edited: