Tip roundness and cue performance

[Straightpool_99]

I recently tried flattening my tip more after watching some snooker players, who prefer playing with a slightly flatter tip. Personally I've played with a rounder tip than most. The result was that I completely stunk up the joint for 2 days. I got beaten by players that I usually beat easily. It is possible that I went a bit to far with the flattening of the tip, but I was shocked at how much of a difference it actually made. I originally wanted a flatter tip because I sometimes get unwanted trace spin on the cueball on certain shots (which I'm working to fix) and I hoped a flatter tip would help a little bit. Short answer It didn't. It also created other problems.

 

[ShootingArts]

interesting and unexpected

I recently tried flattening my tip more after watching some snooker players, who prefer playing with a slightly flatter tip. Personally I've played with a rounder tip than most. The result was that I completely stunk up the joint for 2 days. I got beaten by players that I usually beat easily. It is possible that I went a bit to far with the flattening of the tip, but I was shocked at how much of a difference it actually made. I originally wanted a flatter tip because I sometimes get unwanted trace spin on the cueball on certain shots (which I'm working to fix) and I hoped a flatter tip would help a little bit. Short answer It didn't. It also created other problems.

A question: What tip do you play with and if you had to categorize the hit as very soft, soft, medium, hard, or very hard where would you place the tip that is on your cue now?(not manufacturers rating, your feel please)

Thinking back, I shot a lot of pool with a flat tip with rounded edges, a soft tip though. Been thinking about trying it again. I have also played with small diameter very small radius tips, very high crown, that delivered a lot of spin effortlessly.

I would have thought that due to the amount of deflection shown in high speed video and still captures the tip profile wouldn't be that important once you got used to whichever one you chose. Your finding seems counterintuitive which makes it more interesting than if you had found what we both expected.

Thanks for posting this, always interested in threads and posts that may make me have to revise equipment opinions.

Hu

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I actually tried a convex tip once.
I kept finishing a game before I even started it.

Hey, Hu. What's happening my friend?

 

[Straightpool_99]

A question: What tip do you play with and if you had to categorize the hit as very soft, soft, medium, hard, or very hard where would you place the tip that is on your cue now?(not manufacturers rating, your feel please)

Thinking back, I shot a lot of pool with a flat tip with rounded edges, a soft tip though. Been thinking about trying it again. I have also played with small diameter very small radius tips, very high crown, that delivered a lot of spin effortlessly.

I would have thought that due to the amount of deflection shown in high speed video and still captures the tip profile wouldn't be that important once you got used to whichever one you chose. Your finding seems counterintuitive which makes it more interesting than if you had found what we both expected.

Thanks for posting this, always interested in threads and posts that may make me have to revise equipment opinions.

Hu

I play with a Moori M, which I think is a fairly rated medium hard tip. The round tip seem to give more spin with less offset for me, which was why I thought flattening it would help me shoot cleaner center ball shots. Instead the hits became more unpredictable and it didn't help at all with the problem.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Straightpool,

For about 45 years I've played with a very flat, very soft Elk Master tip with the edges just rounded. I've shot nearly every shot during time with intentional off center hits on the cue ball.

I've just started experimenting with medium tips on a couple of slightly used 'LD' shafts that I picked up. I have played rather well with them, but I have just about decided to go back to the Elk Masters.

It's about the compression. That's all I'm going to say, because if I say more your thread will get derailed.

I think Hu knows what I'm talking about.

 

[ShootingArts]

thanks!

I play with a Moori M, which I think is a fairly rated medium hard tip. The round tip seem to give more spin with less offset for me, which was why I thought flattening it would help me shoot cleaner center ball shots. Instead the hits became more unpredictable and it didn't help at all with the problem.

Thanks, I have Moori M's on some shafts too so very familiar with them. The rounder tip should indeed give more spin with less offset, just confused why you got the other results.



Tramp,

Just hanging in and hanging on around here. Expecting temps in the high teens in the swamp tonight so I have to get outside and tighten up the insulation on all my pipes after storms the last few weeks busted up my insulation on outside faucets. High wind, baseball sized hail, and ice the size of railroad bed aggregate hit within a few hours of each other recently. This global warming is getting old. Wish they would decide it was getting colder so I could break out my shorts and shades!

Hope things are great your way and you and yours have a fantastic 2015!

Hu

 

[naji]

I recently tried flattening my tip more after watching some snooker players, who prefer playing with a slightly flatter tip. Personally I've played with a rounder tip than most. The result was that I completely stunk up the joint for 2 days. I got beaten by players that I usually beat easily. It is possible that I went a bit to far with the flattening of the tip, but I was shocked at how much of a difference it actually made. I originally wanted a flatter tip because I sometimes get unwanted trace spin on the cueball on certain shots (which I'm working to fix) and I hoped a flatter tip would help a little bit. Short answer It didn't. It also created other problems.

It is not the tip. Look for something else, sorry. The only way you will know if you have a table at home and many hours of free time! usually it is the stroke vs stance 99% of the time.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Striaightpool,

As to the occasional inadvertent side spin, that too popped up as noticeable when I started shooting softer more often since getting a bit involved in one pocket.

I thought it might be that I was 'snatching the cue' as I was using less arm stroke & using just my wrist.

I thought it might be that I was lined up a bit wrong.

I thought it might be that my connection to the cue was too loose.

I had pretty much decided that the loose connection to the cue was the culprit for center hit shots but preferable for english spin shots.

Then, Gene Albrecht showed me beyond dispute that FOR POOL I am left eye dominant & not right eye dominant as had 'known' for 48 years.

Problem solved if I use the correct eye.

I'd recommend Gene's Perfect Aim DVD, it's not an aiming method, & make the 'free' complimentary phone call to Gene even before you look at the DVD.

Good Luck in finding Your solution to Your problem & Best Wishes in General,
Rick

 

[alstl]

I shape it once when it is first installed and then leave it alone, but then I'm just a banger.

 

[Straightpool_99]

It is not the tip. Look for something else, sorry. The only way you will know if you have a table at home and many hours of free time! usually it is the stroke vs stance 99% of the time.

I should maybe clarify a little bit. I'm not talking about huge amounts of spin here. We are talking about the cueball doing a half rotation on firm stop shots SOME times. That may not seem that much, but with the current level of players I am facing, missing even once or twice in a race to 10 usually means I lose. Even that small amount of spin can screw up a long shot into a small pocket, if I have to use draw and more force especially.

Obviously the fault is in my cueing, but i thought maybe a bit flatter tip would help reduce the problem. So far it seems not to be the case. Also I don't get the feeling that the cue "bites" into the cueball like it does with the rounder tip. Instead it feels like it is slipping a bit. It is a very, very slight difference but I can feel it, and see the results.

 

[Sedog]

I should maybe clarify a little bit. I'm not talking about huge amounts of spin here. We are talking about the cueball doing a half rotation on firm stop shots SOME times. That may not seem that much, but with the current level of players I am facing, missing even once or twice in a race to 10 usually means I lose. Even that small amount of spin can screw up a long shot into a small pocket, if I have to use draw and more force especially.

Obviously the fault is in my cueing, but i thought maybe a bit flatter tip would help reduce the problem. So far it seems not to be the case. Also I don't get the feeling that the cue "bites" into the cueball like it does with the rounder tip. Instead it feels like it is slipping a bit. It is a very, very slight difference but I can feel it, and see the results.

Seems to me that if you are hitting a round surface (CB) with a flat surface (Tip),anything but a center ball hit will give you an action that is certainly different from what you are used to thus causing your problems.

 

[bbb]

I recently tried flattening my tip more after watching some snooker players, who prefer playing with a slightly flatter tip. Personally I've played with a rounder tip than most. The result was that I completely stunk up the joint for 2 days. I got beaten by players that I usually beat easily. It is possible that I went a bit to far with the flattening of the tip, but I was shocked at how much of a difference it actually made. I originally wanted a flatter tip because I sometimes get unwanted trace spin on the cueball on certain shots (which I'm working to fix) and I hoped a flatter tip would help a little bit. Short answer It didn't. It also created other problems.

the tip has nothing to do with unintentional spin
its your stroke
jmho
also
with a rounded tip you hit the cue ball closer to the center of the tip when using english
due to the curvature ot the tip and the cue ball
with a flatter tip you will have more offset
so you are not hitting the cue ball where you think you are with a curved tip
since the first part of the tip to touch curvature of the cue ball will be farther away
i could explain this better with a diagram but i dont know how to do that
jmho

 

[ENGLISH!]

Regarding the bite/slipping, you might want to try a softer tip with the flat shape.

Elk Masters cost about $1.00.

 

[PoolBoy1]

I like a flatter tip and use english minimally. It's all about angles and touch. Providing one is at least a decent shot maker.

 

[bbb]

Seems to me that if you are hitting a round surface (CB) with a flat surface (Tip),anything but a center ball hit will give you an action that is certainly different from what you are used to thus causing your problems.

i was writing my post and didnt see yours
you said what i tried to much more succinctly....(to me)
:thumbup:..to you

 

[HawaiianEye]

I like a flatter tip and use english minimally. It's all about angles and touch. Providing one is at least a decent shot maker.

I agree with this. Up until very recently, I always used a 14mm tip Le Pro tip that was rounded about like a nickel...much less rounded than a dime. I don't know why today's players seem to think that you can't put English on a cue ball with a wider tip. What kind of tips do they think are on masse cues?

I started out playing snooker well before I played rotation games as well. Maybe that is why I prefer the flatter tip.

Whatever the case, the "wider" and "flatter" seemed to always work best for me. I use a lot of "inside" English and am using the edges of the tip as much as the center of the tip. Having a "wider" and "flatter" tip gives you more room for "error". If you stroke the ball a little too much to the outside with ANY tip you will have a greater chance of miscuing than hitting towards the center, but if you miss hit a little bit the other direction you have a bigger surface to hit "center ball" on the cue ball instead of accidentally hitting the other side which would put the opposite English, like if you had a smaller tip.

 

[ceebee]

I like a tip with a spherical crown between a nickel & a quarter. Too flat of a tip does not give the edge of the tip to grip the cue ball during impact.

Think about the fact that a ball hitting a ball does quite well in making the object and/or cue ball go where you want them to.

I've found that a flatter tip is much better for the Break Shot, it reduces a good deal of squirt.

Good Luck...

 

[Pidge]

Snooker players don't have flat tips, for a start.

The tips are far smaller than pool tips so that just makes them look less rounded. They are shaped by hand and each individual has their preferred shape. You will never see a snooker player lining up their tip to the very bottom of the cue ball either where the tip is touching the table almost. This will cause a miscue every time with a snooker cue and snooker cue ball. Pool players do it all the time because of the much larger tip area. So, a flatter tip playing like this in pool will contact the cue ball closer to centre very slightly, but it can make all the difference.

I use a Ki-Tech soft on my snooker cue and pool cue. Both shaped and installed by hand and both play out of this world. I've played with Elk Master tips all my life in snooker and I'm now discovering shots I could never dream of making with any consistency before. White in baulk, OB a foot from the black corner pocket, deep screw back to baulk...easy. I could never do this with the consistency I can with the Elks.

My advice would be to shape a tip how you are used to. Over time the middle becomes more leveled with the outer part still rounded. That's how a tip should look.

A flatter tip doesn't give snooker players or anyone for that matter more accuracy. Snooker players and pool player are accurate because they've spent the time to become accurate.

 

[dr_dave]

For those interested, several illustrations and lots of information regarding tip size and shape, along with supporting resources, can be found here:

cue tip size and shape

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[Floppage]

For those interested, several illustrations and lots of information regarding tip size and shape, along with supporting resources, can be found here:

cue tip size and shape

Enjoy,
Dave

Great document.

However, I have a follow up question that is slightly off topic though. As you pointed out, reducing tip mass using a low deflection shaft or a smaller tip has some trade offs. How much impact does shaft distortion have or is that a factor at all?

Some cue manufacturers seem to reference distortion as an issue right up there with squirt but I find little more than anecdotal evidence to back that up. You have a lot of great articles so if I missed one where you covered that already I apologize.

Thanks.