I just noticed this post by Tom Hay, maker of Ultra Skin tips, about a new offer. You can't beat his prices for quality layered tips.
I ordered another 10 for myself today.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=481230
pj
chgo
Tips... Are we fooling Ourselves?
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
I ordered another 10 for myself today.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=481230
pj
chgo
Triangle is the best tip out there. But paying a lot of money makes one feel good.
You seem nice.
Might try this
I am pretty sure Jensen Cues is credited with the original milk dud. Back in the eighties he soaked them and only pressed them back down to normal height, or that is how the ones I got from him were. I did the same when I started making my own duds, seems like they stayed about as soft with no mushrooming.
There is another issue with Elkmasters the last I bought, very inconsistent weight. Since the size is the same on all of them according to a quick check I tossed nine very light Elkmasters out of a box of fifty best I recall. Two more groupings were very consistent inside each group using a fifteen dollar or so scale from harbor fright. These I dudded. There were also about four very heavy tips in that box I was curious about but they got lost somewhere during the great flood that took my shop so I didn't get to play with them.
Hope this is of some help.
Hu
I am pretty sure Jensen Cues is credited with the original milk dud. Back in the eighties he soaked them and only pressed them back down to normal height, or that is how the ones I got from him were. I did the same when I started making my own duds, seems like they stayed about as soft with no mushrooming.
There is another issue with Elkmasters the last I bought, very inconsistent weight. Since the size is the same on all of them according to a quick check I tossed nine very light Elkmasters out of a box of fifty best I recall. Two more groupings were very consistent inside each group using a fifteen dollar or so scale from harbor fright. These I dudded. There were also about four very heavy tips in that box I was curious about but they got lost somewhere during the great flood that took my shop so I didn't get to play with them.
Hope this is of some help.
Hu
How do you "press" the tips? I have a 100 pound piece of steel I could place on a bunch of them. I have a pipe vice or regular vice.
Last edited:
Triangle, the best. Paying more, is just paying more.
I do like a pressed Elk Master too.
Layered tip lovers help keep some in the industry well fed. These are people who love gimmicks. Or who need the placebo effect to boost their game.
A while back there was a blind test for joint and pin types. No one could tell the difference.
Maybe one day we can do a blind tip test. Use a sliver of tape to conceal the sides of the tip or have the sides darkened or painted.
These layered tip fanatics will not know the difference between layered tips and regular tips of the same hardness category.
But hey, why should I talk fools out of saving $25 - $35 per tip?
I do like a pressed Elk Master too.
Layered tip lovers help keep some in the industry well fed. These are people who love gimmicks. Or who need the placebo effect to boost their game.
A while back there was a blind test for joint and pin types. No one could tell the difference.
Maybe one day we can do a blind tip test. Use a sliver of tape to conceal the sides of the tip or have the sides darkened or painted.
These layered tip fanatics will not know the difference between layered tips and regular tips of the same hardness category.
But hey, why should I talk fools out of saving $25 - $35 per tip?
I tried Kamui's when they first came out.. had one tip that played
well.. after that the quality was all over the place, and of course
the fakes started appearing.
Went back to TAD non-layered mediums... they hold shape
very well, has the pad (all my players have Ivy ferrules).
well.. after that the quality was all over the place, and of course
the fakes started appearing.
Went back to TAD non-layered mediums... they hold shape
very well, has the pad (all my players have Ivy ferrules).
I have an old original Chandivert Champion tip on 1 of my R Howard shafts, and 2 spare tips. Other 4 shafts for 3 other cues I've gone back to Le Pro and Triangle and I'm completely satisfied, regardless of price!
So in response to the original question....... only if "we" use expensive layered tips.
Layered tips aren't all expensive. The ones I use (Ultra Skin) are excellent quality and cost $2.50 each - see the link I posted above.
Which you like is another question.
pj
chgo
I don’t get the price sensitivity people have in pool. I expect a tip or a cube of chalk to last much longer than a meal, night of drinks, full tank of gas, or evening at the movies. It doesn’t bother me to invest in quality equipment if I feel I’m getting lasting value out of it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I use Ultra Skin softs and I like them way better than Kamui.
I have yet to have one mushroom and I pound the hell out of the cue ball.
None of them have glazed over either.
The Kamui Black Super Softs that I used before would be glazed all the time. I don't know if it was the glue between the layers or what.
The question of cost for a tip is of course interesting. Many people lack the ability or desire to install their own tips, so the cost of the install will often be close to that of the tip itself or at least a substantial part of the overall cost. When you factor in the time that the tip will be used, the cost isn't all that great, no matter which tip you choose. This is also the case with "premium" chalk. It's just the principle of the thing! 20-30 dollars for a tip is way over the top, psychologically speaking. Since I install my own tips, the cost is next to nothing for a Triangle or a LePro, and if at any time I'm in doubt about the tip, I'll tear it off without a second thought, which I wouldn't necessarily do with a Kamui.
Then there is the case of the performance. In pool we have a major drawback in that it's very difficult to do a proper blind test of tips. You'd need identical shafts (when was the last time you came across those) and tape over the sides etc. etc. The whole thing becomes much more effort than anyone realistically wants to put in. In my personal experience (for what that's worth) I find that the best layered tips do seem to perform slightly better at the start of their life, then performance starts degrading rapidly. Single layer tips do get harder, slowly, but they perform close to the same (though harder) until they are worn down to nothing. That's what I want. I much prefer predictable high performance to a tip that's sometimes great and then turns to crap. I don't want to think about the tip at all, that's what I want out of it. If I'm shooting a slow, touchy draw shot, the last thing I'd want going through my mind is the current state of the tip, other than chalk retention, which of course must be considered no matter which tip type you like.
Then there is the case of the performance. In pool we have a major drawback in that it's very difficult to do a proper blind test of tips. You'd need identical shafts (when was the last time you came across those) and tape over the sides etc. etc. The whole thing becomes much more effort than anyone realistically wants to put in. In my personal experience (for what that's worth) I find that the best layered tips do seem to perform slightly better at the start of their life, then performance starts degrading rapidly. Single layer tips do get harder, slowly, but they perform close to the same (though harder) until they are worn down to nothing. That's what I want. I much prefer predictable high performance to a tip that's sometimes great and then turns to crap. I don't want to think about the tip at all, that's what I want out of it. If I'm shooting a slow, touchy draw shot, the last thing I'd want going through my mind is the current state of the tip, other than chalk retention, which of course must be considered no matter which tip type you like.
Last edited:
I have always thought a triangle was a fine tip, though I do enjoy precision tips.
I recently got a black boar ferruleless shaft and the tip is understood to be a triangle. I'm not sure if Tony does something special to the tips but cannot imagine using anything else.
Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
I recently got a black boar ferruleless shaft and the tip is understood to be a triangle. I'm not sure if Tony does something special to the tips but cannot imagine using anything else.
Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
I've used Moori and Ultra Skin layered tips for the past 20+ years and have never experienced "degrading performance" of any kind. In fact one of the main things I like about them is their reliable consistency, both from tip to tip and over time.
pj
chgo
Single layer Ki-Tech Medium $12.00. Everyone of them is the same consistency. Another good old school tip folks are forgetting is Triumph.
Good luck with Triangle.
In a box of 50, how many do you think aren't mushy/dead ?
In a box of 50, how many do you think aren't mushy/dead ?
Agree big-time on the U'skins. They are consistent in hardness, don't glaze easily and at less than 3 bux might be one of the best deals in pool. The new Ivory tip is worth a try if you want something a tad softer. Great tips and Tom is awesome to deal with.