To all maker's of cues-> Question
- Thread starter danieldakota53
- Start date
I disagree with this statement Joey. Just because gets more for there cue doesnt mean that they have more knowledge and or better execution. Just means they expect more the there work than the other guy. And just because someone doesnt command as much for there cue than the other guy doesnt mean there not as good or doesnt strive to improve. I think we all are always trying new things to improve our cues. I dont think anyone here is whinning about the other guys price. Just stating our own opinions. At least I am. I also dont believe that anyone is better than the next person. And therefor I will never bow to anyone. And I know that is not necessarily what you mean. But I wouldnt never bow to another cue maker no matter how big or what ever they are. There no better than me or you.
Oh 1 more thing... Just because one builder commands more money for there cues in now way means that they do better work than the next guy. In fact there is a lot of cases where there work could use some improvement. This wasnt my statement this was a statement from someone that has cues from a large majority of the custom builders out there.
This is a great discussion. People can agree to disagree without arguing!! I think there is some that could learn from this discussion here. There is a lot of knowledge here.
In an over saturated market (i.e. supply>demand), the buyer has more power.... not the supplier. They have more to choose from, and therefore more purchasing power.
you also have my apology for the ad hominem in my previous comment
No offense taken without a giggle , not to worry there. My character is fully in tact. But am waiting for a reasonable answer from any maker on the question I have asked. No arguments, or any one upset, just some clear answers as to why they think I may be wrong and the reasons behind their thoughts. I just thought an open discussion like this could share light on this subject.
you also have my apology for the ad hominem in my previous comment
No offense taken without a giggle , not to worry there. My character is fully in tact. But am waiting for a reasonable answer from any maker on the question I have asked. No arguments, or any one upset, just some clear answers as to why they think I may be wrong and the reasons behind their thoughts. I just thought an open discussion like this could share light on this subject.
As a character from the movie True Grit said, "I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world as it is, is vexing enough."
You asked why is cue B more expensive than cue A if they are so similar? the answer encompasses all of those variables that you wish to exclude (ex. hype, reputation, marketing, etc)..... I hope I'm making sense.
You asked why is cue B more expensive than cue A if they are so similar? the answer encompasses all of those variables that you wish to exclude (ex. hype, reputation, marketing, etc)..... I hope I'm making sense.
I've had no interest in participating in this thread and I'm still somewhat reluctant.
However, if your question is based on the numbers given in your hypothetical example,
I can understand your confusion. They are nowhere near realistic.
4 hrs to build a cue??? Surely you jest. $800 profit minus my time?? Please.
My shop rate is $50/hr. It can take yrs. to build a cue properly.
Where did you get the notion that there is money to be made in building cues?
There isn't, not to any appreciable degree anyway. It's a labor of love, nothing more.
Big name companies build cues with the bottom-line as their goal. That's WHY they exist.
An indy cue-maker's bottom-line is: 'I hope I can at least break even on this one'.
Back to your original question of 'what seperates one CM's work from another'.
That's easy. At what point do you say: That's good enough. Therein lies the difference.
KJ
PS - You might want to try using the 'quote' feature at the bottom of every post.
Without using it, one would think that everything you're quoting is your statement.
This makes your posts very confusing to read.
---> And I do use the quote feature and have many times in this thread if you read back through. I really do not think I am being confusing at all. But would still like answers. Thank you for your input KJ, like to see more from other makers. Please participate and add to our discussion.
At this point in time, I would say market hype.danieldakota53 said:
Look around the forum and see how many are simply buying themselves a status symbol.
Perhaps you are over-valuing your "talents".qbilder said:
Being a "better cue maker" does not necessarily mean your cues will sell for more money than the other guy's. Again, market hype at work. You, of all people, should realize this.
Knowing how to play pool is no longer a requirement to be a cue maker.qbilder said:
A person can be totally clueless as a pool player and with a few pieces of figured wood, some internet forum shills and a cookie-cutter web site, get prices comparable to much more experienced builders who have been at it for 20+ years.
Nowdays, there is enough information readily available for new makers to build a cue that plays good... at least to some.
Forget about cue makers... Do you really believe that the majority of cue buyers "understand the subtleties" of how a cue should play or feel?qbilder said:
Once again, market hype at work. Most buyers don't play enough pool to discover those "subtleties" anyway.
It's hard to learn about what a cue is supposed to do when you're selling your new toy a week after you just bought it, "test hit only".
In the end, the dirty little secret about cue buying is that you don't need to spend a small fortune on equipment to play well, or, to get a well-made cue, for that matter.
There are still plenty of builders who build cues because they actually enjoy it and don't feel the need to charge an arm and a leg for their work.
Of course, all of this is just my opinion.
. I play with some older gentlemen that there shaft is so black from hand oil,swet and chalk dust, I couldn't tell you what shade it originally was. And if you ever tried to clean them or even wipe them down, they will flip out on you,but boy can they play
Ever notice great players seem to always have the same cue (unless sponsored of coarse) year after year, after year?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4414902&postcount=23
to danieldakota53 in a different thread on shaft colors you made this statement bolded above
to me that statement implies that the great player playes with the same cue because THAT CUE feels and plays the best for him and is different than other cues he could play with.
if my interpretation of your statement is correct than i would assume that great player would pay a premium for that cue
edited to add i am not a cuemaker
Ever notice great players seem to always have the same cue (unless sponsored of coarse) year after year, after year?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4414902&postcount=23
to danieldakota53 in a different thread on shaft colors you made this statement bolded above
to me that statement implies that the great player playes with the same cue because THAT CUE feels and plays the best for him and is different than other cues he could play with.
if my interpretation of your statement is correct than i would assume that great player would pay a premium for that cue
edited to add i am not a cuemaker
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You have my input and this will be my last.
My reluctance to enter this thread was based on my perception that it is a thinly veiled
'discussion' for the purpose of bashing cue-makers for the money they charge.
That perception hasn't changed. Walk the walk and you won't need to talk.
You are correct in that my stated shop-rate is for doing repairs and not building.
Even so, my rate is my target and not always met. Building is a different animal.
I haven't built a cue in 2 yrs. As I said, there's no money in it. It's a labor of love
and love doesn't pay the bills. I miss building and look to return to it soon.
In the meantime, I have obligations to the greater concern; all of the custom work for the
largest billiard supply in the world.
Your understanding of why some cue-makers charge more than others won't likely be found in a discussion.
There is no simple answer though I did give you the condensed version.
Each builder is different. Even if their cues resemble another builder's, they're not the same.
You suggested earlier that once a CM reaches a certain level, that those at that level all possess the same knowledge.
Maybe they do and maybe they don't. The difference is in how that knowledge is applied.
Just like your decision to 'quote' sometimes and sometimes not.
Guess which one moves the ball easier.
KJ
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We should hype this thread so it becomes more valuable.
Btw, it's makers not maker's.
Btw, it's makers not maker's.
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Then someone will just put it in there favorites and show it off to people.
I agree. For that person, it sure is.
I have tried to keep the thread on topic. It is others off on tangents that are taking it that way. As I have reminded several times, if 2 cue makers are equal in talent and skill, what makes one demand more money than the other. Very simple question I thought.
And doing a search, I find many makers on this forum. While only a few have answered or shared their opinions on the topic.
How do you know they have equal talent and skill?
And it was answered. Perhaps not the answer you were looking for, but it was answered.
Many makers here are not going to respond or entertain your query beyond a certain point...as many have come under attack here, many more have left, as a result. Count yourself lucky to have gotten the responses you have. To keep pushing the query until you hear what you want, may begin to be perceived as trolling.
Lisa ===> is familiar with the taste of shoe leather.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk
Because I say they do as an example.