To spin or not to spin?

The Spin Conundrum

Kevin3824 said:
I have watched a a series of videos lately that promotes using center ball (without right or left) for positioning at first then adding right and left afterwards to be used only rarely in 8 and 9 ball. It indicates most players tend to use spin on most every shot and that is why they plateau. It is their lack of understanding of natural ball positioning that eventually stops them from improving. At least that is how I interpreted it. I would like to know what the others on here for the most part think of that and if they play spin on most of their shots or not.
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I could write a very large tome here since Spin is the very subject I've been working with and just published a book on the use of it.

I will say that your videos are right. I have a cue that I play with from time to time to make me realize this very thing. Its a 13mm very stiff playing cue that squirts a lot when you really juice a shot up. I get it out when I want to get back into my 8 ball and 9 ball mode. I tend to avoid the use of spin with that cue and focus more on getting precise position using Top, Bottom and Center English positions, it works wonderfully for making me tone down the use of spin and getting where I'm supposed to with the cue ball.

When I use this cue for about 5 racks of 9 ball I start realizing that really very light spin is just right for most shots if its needed at all.

This is the way I played when I was young and playing well but somewhere along the way I started over spinning the ball. I think we all do. I spin the ball a lot in One Pocket and can't play near as well with the heavy shafted cue because my game counts on the spin to bend angles on banks but 9 ball and 8 ball I find you really don't need all of that just light touches to complete better angles.

I can't speak for straight pool, I haven't gotten into it as much as One Pocket but I would imagine there would be instances you need to spin to break clusters with the cue ball that spin could be used liberally. However shot making is a whole lot easier with small amounts of spin.
 
Some people have a hard time finding center ball since they use English so much, the natural path seems to be the road less traveled these days. Tangent line, 30 degree rule, center ball or just rolling the ball is not in the novice-intermediate level player's dictionary, some might do some of it but they don't know what to call it since they've never been taught what it's called.



Neil

Edit: For the record I think Nick Varner/Buddy Hall were the 2 best center ball players, it seemed like the cueball was just rolling (not spinning) into place on the correct line on 80+% of their shots.
 
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I have no experience to suggest to good players, but I coach the 3s and 4s on our team, and tell them center ball because, for the most part, they do not hit center even when they are trying. Adding left or right on purpose really makes them inaccurate with the shot. For good players, I would say it is needed when it is needed.
 
Kevin3824 said:
I have watched a a series of videos lately that promotes using center ball (without right or left) for positioning at first then adding right and left afterwards to be used only rarely in 8 and 9 ball. It indicates most players tend to use spin on most every shot and that is why they plateau. It is their lack of understanding of natural ball positioning that eventually stops them from improving. At least that is how I interpreted it. I would like to know what the others on here for the most part think of that and if they play spin on most of their shots or not.
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Do you have a link to these videos please?
 
M.G. said:
Physics dictate the more influences (movement, ...) there is the more can and will go wrong and the more instable a system is.

Can't really argue with physics, can you?

Other than that, just staying properly on the center line (incl. top and back) is a very good idea to develop your game further.
Restrictions are the cause of invention.

Cheers,
M
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Physics doesn't dictate this.
 
Any good player who claims he rarely uses spin is either lying or most likely is simply not even aware that he is hitting the CB with some amount of side spin on most shots. Sure he may not be hitting the CB with "extreme" side spin, but for most shots he is hitting away from true center ball.
 
M.G. said:
Physics dictate the more influences (movement, ...) there is the more can and will go wrong and the more instable a system is.

Can't really argue with physics, can you?

Other than that, just staying properly on the center line (incl. top and back) is a very good idea to develop your game further.
Restrictions are the cause of invention.

Cheers,
M
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I am very glad that I started the game at 13 years old before my physics class @ 15 years old could have scared me away from using english.

Nothing ventured... Nothing gained.

a 13 year old is not afraid to try... especially when others are not trying to hold them back.

What does Your physics analysis say regarding a human being putting the exact center of a 13mm leather tip at the end of a nearly 5' long tapered stick onto the exact infinitely small center line of a 2 1/4 inch solid sphere & to do so with some significant amount of MxA=Force in a very consistent manner with few if any failures.

What are the odds of success for that?

Take two 13 year old identical twins. Have one hit only on the vertical axis & the other using whatever english is required or desired as well as hitting on the vertical axis when no english is required or desired.

Have them do that for 6 months. Then have them compete.

Each individual must make their own determination.

But Mechanics can get much more accomplished when they have a complete tool box rather than just 3 tools.

Best Wishes to You & Your... & All.

PS Many teachers of actions teach because they could not do. It genrally seems that instructors advocate the Center Ball route. I think that may be because they really can not teach english. Yes they can teach the principles of what it is & what makes it work...
but they can NOT teach success with it because it is basically a feel thing & the ONLY way to garner feel is to experience it.

PPS if one is not feeling the CB on the cue stick through the tip... that is another issue... & another subject... but perhaps not.
 
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Gunn_Slinger said:
A contrast in styles; Randy hardly ever used spin.
He missed a ball about once a day. Ricky and I would flinch when
he missed. But that was it for the day...lol.
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You check your PM yet? Dammmmm!

I have a harder time adjusting to the way a center ball strick pushes the object ball, than i do adjusting my aim point for side spin

Not that i cant do it all, it just feels righterest one way, vs all other possibilities.
 
I would also say that 'center ball', when referring to the cue tip/ ball strike is not only the point of intersecetion of vertical/ lateral axis (axceses? Axices? )

There must be a pretty comfy magin of error, before any aplreciable difference in a given shot results.
 
Center Ball and Natural Position

Kevin3824 said:
I have watched a a series of videos lately that promotes using center ball (without right or left) for positioning at first then adding right and left afterwards to be used only rarely in 8 and 9 ball. It indicates most players tend to use spin on most every shot and that is why they plateau. It is their lack of understanding of natural ball positioning that eventually stops them from improving. At least that is how I interpreted it. I would like to know what the others on here for the most part think of that and if they play spin on most of their shots or not.
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I use and always recommend to use spin/english only for positional purposes when center, top, and bottom is not possible.
 
PoolChump said:
I use and always recommend to use spin/english only for positional purposes when center, top, and bottom is not possible.
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There is no shot where center, top and botton is a proper solution. In fact, i would bet it is impossible.

I beliveve so much in lots of side spin (LOSS)
 
Kevin3824 said:
I have watched a a series of videos lately that promotes using center ball (without right or left) for positioning at first then adding right and left afterwards to be used only rarely in 8 and 9 ball. It indicates most players tend to use spin on most every shot and that is why they plateau. It is their lack of understanding of natural ball positioning that eventually stops them from improving. At least that is how I interpreted it. I would like to know what the others on here for the most part think of that and if they play spin on most of their shots or not.
Click to expand...

I use spin quite a bit, and if you listen to Strickland talk, he always states that if you can't spin the ball well, you are not playing good pool.

The learning to play without spin first is correct though, you need to make sure you know where center ball is and how to hit that spot properly before leaning shots with spin. Spin also makes aiming harder so of-course there is that, if you say on the vertical center of the ball, you are likely to miss less.
 
Just picked up "Robbing The Bank Shot" off the Google Play bookstore. We shall see...

336Robin said:
I could write a very large tome here since Spin is the very subject I've been working with and just published a book on the use of it.

I will say that your videos are right. I have a cue that I play with from time to time to make me realize this very thing. Its a 13mm very stiff playing cue that squirts a lot when you really juice a shot up. I get it out when I want to get back into my 8 ball and 9 ball mode. I tend to avoid the use of spin with that cue and focus more on getting precise position using Top, Bottom and Center English positions, it works wonderfully for making me tone down the use of spin and getting where I'm supposed to with the cue ball.

When I use this cue for about 5 racks of 9 ball I start realizing that really very light spin is just right for most shots if its needed at all.

This is the way I played when I was young and playing well but somewhere along the way I started over spinning the ball. I think we all do. I spin the ball a lot in One Pocket and can't play near as well with the heavy shafted cue because my game counts on the spin to bend angles on banks but 9 ball and 8 ball I find you really don't need all of that just light touches to complete better angles.

I can't speak for straight pool, I haven't gotten into it as much as One Pocket but I would imagine there would be instances you need to spin to break clusters with the cue ball that spin could be used liberally. However shot making is a whole lot easier with small amounts of spin.
Click to expand...
 
The Asians don't spin the ball very much. There's a reason that they are the best players in the world. They pay attention to nature angles and paths. And use very little siding form shot to shot.
 
Black-Balled said:
There is no shot where center, top and botton is a proper solution. In fact, i would bet it is impossible.

I beliveve so much in lots of side spin (LOSS)
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Impossible is a strong word.

I would just interject that it might take an extreme amount of draw or follow to accomplish what a small amount of side spin can get done...

So... then there is the amount of Stroke necessary for such & will one hit the center axis with THAT Amount of Stroke or not & THEN get unwanted & unplanned for side spin.

Just some food for thought.
 
garczar said:
Gamble much? Reason i ask is that most spin-lovers i've been around have a way of booking losers. Under the gun simple pool usually gets the cash. If you can spin it that often and win my hats off to you.
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I second that.
I've known a lot of cueball twirlers that just zing around the table, as soon as they are under too much pressure , they get a little tentative, and pretty soon, they are out of line every other shot..
 
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