TOI is English/Spin

the quality is still exceptional here in Texas

Just stop it CJ. You are going to kill your admirers with knowledge and pretty soon they will want to know how much is in your bank account and will be begging to take a peek at your little black book. :D:D:D

JoeyA

You're funny, Joey...., the "little black book" days have been replaced with cell phones, and email addresses.....however, the quality is still exceptional here in Texas ;)
 
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A lot of this discussion is mired in differing perceptions and our resulting descriptions. I know CJ and others will say it's just Center to Center or Center to Edge aim points when using TOI. That's really not aim point but alignment when stepping into the shot. My actual aim reference is literally a hair thick. If I'm missing I can adjust one of three variables: offset (more or less inside), stick acceleration, or aim. I've found that adjusting with more or less inside is VERY difficult and can get me lost (as you indicated, anything less than a 1/4 tip is very hard to judge). I just stick with 1/8 inside and adjust via ever so slight aim adjustments or stick speed.

I've been using TOI for about three years now, and I don't notice the offset (unless I consciously make an effort to see it, it looks like center CB). I also have calibrated it through repetition so that instead of focusing intently on trying to aim just a hair thick, I'm looking at the actual intended contact point, just like I did before TOI. Occasionally, usually after a lay off, I have to spend an hour or so recalibrating the offset/relation to the conventional alignment; but it comes right back.

So why would I bother with this at all? I notice two significant benefits right away. My CB is much easier to control, it just creeps into the intended position; that's especially beneficial when your contact with the OB is on the thinner spectrum and the CB has lots of energy left over after contact. The last thing you want is running English after contact making it worse. The other benefit is the effort to shade to the inside increases your precision on hitting the CB where you intend, virtually eliminating any tendency to steer the shot or swipe the CB. If I aimed center CB, I could never be sure if my cue struck 1/8 tip inside or 1/8 tip outside. I rattle the shot and may have misjudged one of three or four factors. By anchoring my stick line 1/8 inside, I KNOW I hit it to the inside or dead center CB. So my miss is in one direction. That's what is meant by increasing margin of error. If I'm aiming at center pocket and attempting to hit center CB, I could hit a touch left or right of center CB, then my margin of error is half a pocket in either direction. If I aim thick, favoring one side of the pocket, I have the whole pocket in one direction to error toward. The whole idea is to eliminate variables, instead of adding them.

Do I align with outside at all? You bet. I have to drag some shots across the table, or stun stuff just like anyone else. The TOI we're debating just replaces center CB alignment on anything other than straight in stop shots or when I need to use outside to get where I need to.

I also align center to center or center to edge. Aiming and aligning are two separate things.
 
You're funny, Joey...., the "little black book" days have been replaced with cell phones, and email addresses.....however, the quality is still exceptional here in Texas ;)

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Those your grandkids :cool:


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countering after-contact spin - angles align to the subconscious in a much better way

I like this post but I don't know about "perfect angles" (maybe for CJ). :smile:!
JoeyA

Maybe "ideal angles" would be more accurate.

When a players uses TOI to counter the after-contact spin the angles align to the subconscious in a much better way.

The human mind is incredible and, since the dawn of this world age has been fascinated with angles, and geometric shapes....there is a very good reason for this and it continues today.

I've seen player's position play improve very quickly just because of this fact.

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Those your grandkids

Well, they are someones Grand Kids, that's a fer sure.

I wondered if these were CJ's kids, or any of his Friends, kids or grand kids, he would appreciate old men letching on them.

I treat ours at our bar with respect as others do, and we always make sure they have a little extra for their service.

We certainly don't talk about them rubbing their tits all over us tho. I can guarantee that one.

But, like other things on the Board, CJ obviously thinks this is impressive. Hardly.
 
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Well, they are someones Grand Kids, that's a fer sure.

I wondered if these were CJ's kids, or any of his Friends, kids or grand kids, he would appreciate old men letching on them.

I treat ours at our bar with respect as others do, and we always make sure they have a little extra for their service.

We certainly don't talk about them rubbing their tits all over us tho. I can guarantee that one.

But, like other things on the Board, CJ obviously thinks this is impressive. Hardly.

Your hero SJD is the ultimate in fondling young barmaids, brags about it all the time. At least CJ is 20 years younger but judging by the looks of the girls he should be another 20 years younger than that.
 
they usually gamble for at least $20-$50 a game....some play sets for $500.

Your hero SJD is the ultimate in fondling young barmaids, brags about it all the time. At least CJ is 20 years younger but judging by the looks of the girls he should be another 20 years younger than that.

The girls in Texas have always been the finest players, that's what we're known for. You can go to any pool room, any night and see the most beautiful girls in the world. They all play pool, and they usually gamble for at least $20-$50 a game....some play sets for $500.

After they gamble all night playing pool they meet the pool room guys at Denny's or I-HOP and talk about how much they LOVE pool and how it's the greatest game on earth.
 
The positive side effect is our minds start to become aligned with the shot pattern

going to have to agree with CJ and say TOI is not the same as inside english. You dont want the cue ball to play like inside english also... just saying and I am ok with being proven wrong also :thumbup:

What reduces the stress and over thinking is when we discover that any shot can be executed with the Touch of Inside, instead of center or outside. This immediately cuts down on the choices we have to make.

The positive side effect is our minds start to become aligned with what's really happening with the cue ball on each shot. Players that use outside don't usually realize that the cue ball is deflecting in towards the object ball before spinning back on the original line and center ball hitters don't realize that some of their shots are deflecting slightly causing inconsistency.

TOI creates a situation where we feel the cue ball is slightly over cutting the object ball every shot. This way, if we are hitting the center of the pocket we know for sure we're aligned to the inside of the pocket. The amount of feel and touch this creates is a positive attribute and, in my opinion, the key to great shot making.

The greatest shot makers don't have the best eye sight, they have the best "feel for the pocket"...... The TOI taught me how to develop this skill and I"m simply passing it on to those who want to discover it as well. 'The Game is Your Teacher'
 
Your hero SJD is the ultimate in fondling young barmaids, brags about it all the time.

And in which post did I say that I approved of that either. I'll let SJ know that next time he does it again. Is this ok with you?


At least CJ is 20 years younger

It doesn't make it any more right, if yer still old enuff to be their Daddy.

My Son is 30 and I am old enuff to have had kids that would be pushing 40 now.

Maybe CJ is the same age or a bit older than I am.

Don't get me wrong, I am the last person to be Preaching Morals.
No Biggy. If you want to show people on the board that you have little respect for women, that is up to the person posting. Not me.
 
I''m in my prime - say when!!!

Your hero SJD is the ultimate in fondling young barmaids, brags about it all the time. At least CJ is 20 years younger but judging by the looks of the girls he should be another 20 years younger than that.

It's all relative, my last three girlfriends were pretty young.....or should I say pretty and young. My current one isn't young, but looks good in a tux. :groucho:

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Looks as tho you know all the good Porn sites. Or are these just saved images on your computer?

Hey, shite happens when you get old. The Old Spank Bank doesn't work as well and a person obviously has to download a few.

Better hope yer not in Doc Holiday Prime either.
 
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I had always thought that if a player cues the ball anywhere from center ball, it is to achieve a desired action either by hitting the OB or after.

Even if after hitting the OB, the OB kills any spin of the cue ball, the desired effect of hitting the OB with a Touch of Inside would still be considered, using English.

If there is no advantage to hitting the OB with English, then why would you use it.

Apparently, I am still a Banger. And to think of all those wasted years and wasted beers. Wait, did I just say, wasted beers.
 
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I had always thought that if a player cues the ball anywhere from center ball, it is to achieve a desired action either by hitting the OB or after.... a Touch of Inside would still be considered, using English.

If there is no advantage to hitting the OB with English, then why would you use it.

Apparently, I am still a Banger. And to think of all those wasted years and wasted beers. Wait, did I just say, wasted beers.

Maybe I am a still a banger too ?...I guess thats the trouble I will always have accepting 'TOI' !...I have always used some kind of English, on virtually every shot, but I hit whatever part of the cue ball, is best suited for that particular shot ! (they are ALL different, ya know. :rolleyes:)..I think I trained myself, to feel comfortable with any hit the shot called for !

I rarely ever used absolute 'center ball', except for a stun shot, or a long, slow rolling lag, where you are strictly playing the roll of the table !..My observations have been, that most of the 'seasoned' top players, also play that way, rather than center ball, TOI, TOO, (or any other acronym)...Maybe a nice poll would determine something ?...It can't be any more inconclusive than the last (CJ) poll ! :o

PS..That is, if we could round up enough 'top players' from the Pre-digital age !...Guys like Hall, Weir, Cardone, etc !...
..No fair using only people who have been 'brainwashed', by aiming systems, books and DVD's ! :cool:
 
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Maybe someone already said this, I did not have time to read every reply yet, but TOI will put a little spin on the ball, absolutely, but that is not the purpose of using TOI.
 
TOI is an overall playing system that does create angles

Maybe someone already said this, I did not have time to read every reply yet, but TOI will put a little spin on the ball, absolutely, but that is not the purpose of using TOI.

The main difference is when using "inside english" you want the cue to be perfectly parallel. This means if you put TOI/Right on the cue ball it would align to the same TOI/RIght on the object ball.......HOWEVER, with the TOI technique you align to the center, so the angle of the cue always favors the cut, and doesn't favor the spin.

This will make sense to those that use TOI, and will sound confusing to those that don't. I show this at the beginning of the TOI video, and show how the TOI Shift creates angles. This doesn't mean it's an "aiming system," on the contrary, it's an overall playing system that does create angles (this is part of overall playing after all).

The TOI system uses a consistent speed, cue ball target and creates each angle off the center or edge of the object ball.......it makes the game so simple, however, the player has to accelerate exactly at contact to reap the fullest rewards.
 
The main difference is when using "inside english" you want the cue to be perfectly parallel. This means if you put TOI/Right on the cue ball it would align to the same TOI/RIght on the object ball.......HOWEVER, with the TOI technique you align to the center, so the angle of the cue always favors the cut, and doesn't favor the spin.

This will make sense to those that use TOI, and will sound confusing to those that don't. I show this at the beginning of the TOI video, and show how the TOI Shift creates angles. This doesn't mean it's an "aiming system," on the contrary, it's an overall playing system that does create angles (this is part of overall playing after all).

The TOI system uses a consistent speed, cue ball target and creates each angle off the center or edge of the object ball.......it makes the game so simple, however, the player has to accelerate exactly at contact to reap the fullest rewards.


No way.

Lou Figueroa
 

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This "TOI" confidence adds something to our pocket billiard games that is essential

Using the Touch of Inside System you will effectively put yourself in a situation that your accuracy will improve with acceleration. If a "straight ball" hitter relies on acceleration it will only amplify the range of their misses (left OR right).

Utilizing the "Touch of Inside" the scenario changes where you will be more accurate when accelerating which is adding another positive habit. Your Game is a direct representation of how many positive habits you have "packaged".

Margin of error for a machine is something you can calculate in a simple formula because a machine has no "Touch". With a human being, margin of error is often effected by the chosen perception of reality. You will generate more "Touch" by adjusting how you choose to see a situation, or target, reducing unwanted variables - this is another way to reduce margin of error.

As human beings we want to reduce "moving parts", and systematically put ourselves in a position to perform consistently. Hitting the primary target in pool {The Cue Ball} on the same side achieves this and enables us to stroke with more confidence.

This confidence adds something to our pocket billiard games that is essential (in my opinion), A SENSE OF WELL BEING.

This "sense" far outweighs any simple "margin of error" because it effects your whole Persona* and makes The Game MUCH more rewarding to the player. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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