Top female players versus top male players?

In short races, alternate breaks, certain top women players certainly have a chance against the men. In short races, winner breaks, the odds for the women drop precipitously.

In long races, winner or alternate breaks, even the top women have almost nil chances against the top men.
 
Nature Boy said:
Thanks!

I hate to get off track here, but you think she was better than Allison? I think Allison plays the game better, but power might be enough to equalize it for Balukas. It would be great to watch.

What was the controversy between her and the women? I always heard the other women just wanted rid of here any way they could.
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Here is the Jean Balukas story:

http://marybruno.com/clips/mb_toogood.html

By the way I think Robin Dodson (aka Robin Bell, aka Robroy on AZBilliards) believes that Balukas was better than Allison.
 
breaks & boobs

Nature Boy said:
I think when Allison played her very best, she was getting fairly close. What would have gotten her was first the break and then power shots.

Maybe if she had Balukas' break?
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Efren does well with a less powerful break.

How many women are excluded from pool, because it appears that a Playboy model image is a requirement for their participation?

Male pool players are not required to look like Chippendale models.

Killer instinct- Most of the women ruthlessly take advantage of an opponents mistakes & also hide their emotions.

A "battle of the sexes" component might add to pool's popularity.
 
berlowmj2 said:
Efren does well with a less powerful break.

How many women are excluded from pool, because it appears that a Playboy model image is a requirement for their participation?

Male pool players are not required to look like Chippendale models.

Killer instinct- Most of the women ruthlessly take advantage of an opponents mistakes & also hide their emotions.

A "battle of the sexes" component might add to pool's popularity.
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If you read the thread from the start, I was saying I thought Allison would have a chance. I said her break might be a little weak, but she would stand a chance. She plays parts of the game as well as anyone. I am on her side.
 
Nature Boy said:
If you read the thread from the start, I was saying I thought Allison would have a chance. I said her break might be a little weak, but she would stand a chance. She plays parts of the game as well as anyone. I am on her side.
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she plays good but dont get crazy on us.
 
I always found the straight pool comparison to be a telling one.

A few years ago, at the world championships, I watched jeanette run 80 balls or so and set a world record for women's pool. Jasmin later broke that record with a run in the 90's I think.

I can name guys in my pool room who run more than that...forget about top players who run many hundreds consecutively. In straight pool tournament achievement, there is no doubt that men dominate.

Some women have a scary strong mental game.

I watched Jeanette challenge a guy less than a year ago for 2K sets of 9-ball. I don't think she knew him. To me, that shows confidence.

I watched Karen Corr play an up and coming Phillipino man who ripped her up 7 to 2, but the race was to 9 games. It seems that when this player realized he was destroying the women's world champion, he got a case of the yips and couldn't make a ball. Karen's consistency took over and she won the cash 9-7.
 
In any given match today, a top female player has a chance to beat ANY man! And they have. The women who I have seen who gamble the best against men are Kelly Fisher and Jeanette. But to answer your question as to how they match up. They don't! I hate to sound like Chris Bartram, but they have no chance! A top woman (Kelly, Jasmin, Yu Ram, Allison, Karen, whoever) playing ten ahead with Dennis, Shane, Francisco, Alex, Yang is a total mismatch. It's a blow out! It would take substantial weight to make a match like this even.

In fact, playing Ten Ahead, Chris is a strong favorite over any woman. Ability wise, the top women are close. But mentally and psychologically they aren't ready yet. After a couple of women get in the trenches and beat a couple of top men, it may begin to change. But that hasn't happened yet. By the way, Cliff was giving Kelly weight.

I love Jean Balukas, but IMO Allison Fisher is the greatest woman player who ever lived! There are some damn good women playing pool today, but they have a long way to go to catch up with Allison. Second best all time is Karen Corr.
 
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A. Fisher, K. Fisher, K. Corr, J. Ouschan, G. Hofstatter, J. Lee, M. Webb, and Yu Ram Cha have all won over top men in major tournaments.

Could they win against that same male playing 10 ahead for money? My money would go on the male in each match. But it will happen some day, and it might be some female that hasn't even come to the US yet. Johnnyt
 
jay i love ya.....but
ive seen jeanie and allison play
and i know this is a moot unprovable point but jeanie has too much in the tank for her and pretty much most of the girls
tighten the pockets up and lock em in a room playing a game like ten ball and jeanies natural abilty and hatred for losing will have her instroke in no time-she has the knowledge thats built into her
a tremendous shotmaking ability and a decent/solid break
the girls cannot fade 3,4 and 5 packs which is exactly what she would be sending
 
Allison and Karen are soon to be etched in the Hall of Fame ,, so there already Legends..

Xiaoting Pan has been aroung for a minute and is a fundamentally sound player ..
Other good players as well are Ga Young, and The Black widow ..

The Best up and coming Female Player to date is undoubtfully
Jasmin Ouschan !!
 
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jay helfert said:
In any given match today, a top female player has a chance to beat ANY man! And they have. The women who I have seen who gamble the best against men are Kelly Fisher and Jeanette. But to answer your question as to how they match up. They don't! I hate to sound like Chris Bartram, but they have no chance! A top woman (Kelly, Jasmin, Yu Ram, Allison, Karen, whoever) playing ten ahead with Dennis, Shane, Francisco, Alex, Yang is a total mismatch. It's a blow out! It would take substantial weight to make a match like this even.

In fact, playing Ten Ahead, Chris is a strong favorite over any woman. Ability wise, the top women are close. But mentally and psychologically they aren't ready yet. After a couple of women get in the trenches and beat a couple of top men, it may begin to change. But that hasn't happened yet. By the way, Cliff was giving Kelly weight.

I love Jean Balukas, but IMO Allison Fisher is the greatest woman player who ever lived! There are some damn good women playing pool today, but they have a long way to go to catch up with Allison. Second best all time is Karen Corr.
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and cliff is not half the player he use to be.
 
scttybee said:
jay i love ya.....but
ive seen jeanie and allison play
and i know this is a moot unprovable point but jeanie has too much in the tank for her and pretty much most of the girls
tighten the pockets up and lock em in a room playing a game like ten ball and jeanies natural abilty and hatred for losing will have her instroke in no time-she has the knowledge thats built into her
a tremendous shotmaking ability and a decent/solid break
the girls cannot fade 3,4 and 5 packs which is exactly what she would be sending
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I saw them both play too - a lot! I would have agreed with you up until the last few years. I used to think they were about even, but no longer. Only at 14.1 would Jean be the favorite IMO.

Again it's the different eras situation. Jean was dominant in an era without all the tough competition that Allison has faced. Jean might still be able to win tournaments today, but it would be a lot tougher.
 
jay helfert said:
In fact, playing Ten Ahead, Chris is a strong favorite over any woman. Ability wise, the top women are close. But mentally and psychologically they aren't ready yet. After a couple of women get in the trenches and beat a couple of top men, it may begin to change. But that hasn't happened yet.
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Put a team of the top women together and let them play Chris the following:

Safety contest
Kicking contest
Tough shape contest (through congested balls)
Banking
Shape in and out of shots through an entire rack contest

Not one of them will win in any category.... Allison and Karen could beat some decent players if they had a good male breaker breaking for them but they would have their hands full playing a lot of shortstop players breaking themselves.... JMO
 
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