touch of inside. CJ has me hooked

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Toi

I signed up for CJ's website the other day and watched the TOI video and the TOI Banks yesterday. I spent about 4 or 5 hours hitting long table length slight angle shots using the system and I really had a good feel for it. I am hoping to take this all the way and convert my game to TOI on most every shot. One thins CJ does not say much about are which shots he does not use the system for. I plan on watching more of his lessons today.
Thanks CJ!!
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are three other factors in every shot that we must calculate.

I signed up for CJ's website the other day and watched the TOI video and the TOI Banks yesterday. I spent about 4 or 5 hours hitting long table length slight angle shots using the system and I really had a good feel for it. I am hoping to take this all the way and convert my game to TOI on most every shot. One thins CJ does not say much about are which shots he does not use the system for. I plan on watching more of his lessons today.
Thanks CJ!!

The rule of thumb for 'Touch of Inside' exceptions.

1) When you have to change the angle after contacting the cushion, spin is necessary.

2) When you are close to the object ball and want to "throw" the ball in, the touch of inside will sometimes undercut the shot, and I'd recommend a touch of Outside.

3) When you need to curve the cueball it's necessary to use spin and usually a slower shot speed.

4) Banking, kicking and caroms, I have a TIP Banking Secrets portion of my web site that is 43 chapters on banking every type shot and how to pivot, and parallel shift to do it.

There are three other factors in every shot that we must calculate.

1) Shot, or Cue Speed - I encourage also a consistent tempo, with a slight pause on the backswing to really feel that your shot speed is consistent,

2) Cue Ball Targeting - we must decide where we are going to aim ON the cue ball for every shot, I recommend cueing slightly to the inside, and a tip below center on as many shots as you can to develop a strong reference for how THAT type shot reacts.

3) How we aim before we go down on the shot, I recommend using a Center/Center or Center/Edge alignment FIRST.....then create the angle you desire based on that starting point. Your subconscious will end up doing this for you, however, it must have a starting point, or Reference point. The aiming should be done above the shot visually, when you get down to shoot you are better off in a touch/feel mode and "feel the shot with your eyes".

These are some points to consider and even if you aren't using a consistent TOI or TOO, it's still important to understand how to create great tempo. Also there are many aiming techniques but most champions use what I call a Connection Aiming System which I posted last week on the forum, it's easy to find.
 

sonny burnett

Registered
I have to side with CJ on this one. Years back I was practicing with my coach and after I made a particular shot he jumped up and made a big fuss. I was trying to figure what I did wrong and he patted me on the back and said "inside English, did you feel it?"

I did not feel it but it never left me and to this day I remember it. I was trying TOI on every shot thereafter!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks CJ

Thanks for the detailed response!
I started all my drills shots yesterday using the equator with TOI. I could see that you always use low as I notice many pros seem to do. Today I am noticing that when I put low in with my TOI I am less accurate. I guess you could say that I have always been less accurate with low and more accurate with high.
Any ideas what my issue is?
Paul
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
try putting the cueball on the spot and hit a firm shot down to the middle diamond

Thanks for the detailed response!
I started all my drills shots yesterday using the equator with TOI. I could see that you always use low as I notice many pros seem to do. Today I am noticing that when I put low in with my TOI I am less accurate. I guess you could say that I have always been less accurate with low and more accurate with high.
Any ideas what my issue is?
Paul

When you say less accurate, I'm not sure what that means. Are you consistently over-cutting the shots or under-cutting the shots?

If there is no consistency to the inaccuracy of the shots it's your stroking techniques...I'd recommend watching my videos on stance, stroking and how to get down on the ball like a champion before using Touch of Inside.

If you're not hitting the cueball where you intend, it won't matter where you aim on the cueball, (if you're not able to hit the spot or close). try putting the cueball on the spot and hit a firm shot down to the middle diamond and straight back, this will show you immediately if you aren't hitting the center (do it 10 times to make sure).
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When i test my stroke up the middle of the table i'm good and hit my tip most times with center ir higher ball but will often miss with low ball hit.
Paul
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
"We play the Game with the edge of our tip, not the center" - Buddy Hall

When i test my stroke up the middle of the table i'm good and hit my tip most times with center ir higher ball but will often miss with low ball hit.
Paul

You must be making a different motion with your hand/wrist when cuing the ball low.

Try cuing the cueball exactly where the cloth and ball meet, should be lower than usual. Then, make the same stroke you would use to hit a stun shot at the center of the ball.....but use the top Edge of the tip.

You also may be "flipping" the wrist, instead of releasing it. Imagine the tip is dipping DOWN immediately after you contact the cueball with the top Edge of the tip.

There are ways to fix that quickly and it's tough to do without seeing what you're doing exactly. Try those two suggestions and see if it makes any difference, either way experimenting is a step in the right direction.
 

HawaiianEye

Banned
When i test my stroke up the middle of the table i'm good and hit my tip most times with center ir higher ball but will often miss with low ball hit.
Paul

It sounds like you are doing something funny with your stroke.

Try keeping your stroke the same and lowering your bridge hand to get from upper TOI to lower TOI. If your stroke is the same then it may fix your problem.
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks CJ and HE I agree that I am doing something with my stoke. I have just got back to the table and am going to see what I can do following these tips.
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Trouble with draw shots

CJ Thanks again for taking time to consider my problem. HE as well.

Yesterday I spent time with TOI and draw. What I did was follow CJ's advise and cue up close to the cloth and then move over a bit to the inside. Previously I was addressing the ball to the inside and then lowering down into a draw position. I found that I was more accurate pocketing balls by addressing the low ball first and then moving a bit inside. Also I used the stun stroke that CJ advised and between these two changes made all the difference.
Thanks much!
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
The TIP can be used to aim and make any shot by either pivoting or a parallel shift

CJ Thanks again for taking time to consider my problem. HE as well.

Yesterday I spent time with TOI and draw. What I did was follow CJ's advise and cue up close to the cloth and then move over a bit to the inside. Previously I was addressing the ball to the inside and then lowering down into a draw position. I found that I was more accurate pocketing balls by addressing the low ball first and then moving a bit inside. Also I used the stun stroke that CJ advised and between these two changes made all the difference.
Thanks much!

That's great!

One thing I want to make sure you're doing because it's essential!

When you're moving the tip slightly to the inside DO NOT move the part of your hand that's firmly secured to the table. Just move the top part of your hand and fingers without moving the foundation.

As you get more advanced only move a "touch" (a hair) to the inside and after 3-5 hours practicing you can start coming down exactly to the TOI tip targeting position. To learn these champion level techniques think about what you're doing, and eventually you will do them subconsciously like I do.

This learning process takes a few weeks of diligent practice, if you're having trouble I can help either in writing or I do Face time video lessons as well.

The TIP can be used to aim and make any shot by either pivoting or a parallel shift, in which your hand would move because you'll have to move the tip much farther. I go over all the specifics in my TIP BANKING SECRETS on the website.
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ
I am going to practice this until the lockdown ends. I feel like I am totally getting it. I start tryi g to drop down directly to my TOI spot this week.
I'menjoying the website.thanks again Paul
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
CJ
I am going to practice this until the lockdown ends. I feel like I am totally getting it. I start tryi g to drop down directly to my TOI spot this week.
I'menjoying the website.thanks again Paul

That's great, I can't teach players to drop down to the TOI position as easy as if they go down to the center ball position and then move over to get the feel of how the angles change relative to the tip placement.

Remember, there's the ALIGNMENT position which is either Center to Center or Center to Edge and then there's the AIMING and I recommend using the 3 Part Pocket System and always aiming to the inside of the pocket with the Touch of Inside so that when you "pop" the shot it will contact the center of the pocket.

Doing this will give you a FEEL for the pocket like the champions describe. When I'm playing my best I can feel the object ball locate the pocket like it's got a homing device on it!
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey CJ another question

CJ I am making progress. The lockdown is giving me time to practice like I have not been able to since HS.
Yesterday I worked on my PSR and getting down on the shot the same each time. Then I spent at least an hour just hitting the que ball up and down the table trying to create that repeatable stop shot stroke with some pop, that I will use on many of my shots.
I have just done some long slight angle shots and had great results.
Can you give me some basic instructions on how I can best integrate positional spin when needed into this routine?
Paul
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
a lot of complimentary videos covering a range of topics,

CJ I am making progress. The lockdown is giving me time to practice like I have not been able to since HS.
Yesterday I worked on my PSR and getting down on the shot the same each time. Then I spent at least an hour just hitting the que ball up and down the table trying to create that repeatable stop shot stroke with some pop, that I will use on many of my shots.
I have just done some long slight angle shots and had great results.
Can you give me some basic instructions on how I can best integrate positional spin when needed into this routine?
Paul

My You Tube Channels have a lot of complimentary videos covering a range of topics, click below to see one I picked for you, I'd also recommend looking through my others asap.


https://youtu.be/GObwHCsWZLo
 

zcrash

Diligent Home Player
Gold Member
The rule of thumb for 'Touch of Inside' exceptions.

1) When you have to change the angle after contacting the cushion, spin is necessary.

2) When you are close to the object ball and want to "throw" the ball in, the touch of inside will sometimes undercut the shot, and I'd recommend a touch of Outside.

3) When you need to curve the cueball it's necessary to use spin and usually a slower shot speed.

4) Banking, kicking and caroms, I have a TIP Banking Secrets portion of my web site that is 43 chapters on banking every type shot and how to pivot, and parallel shift to do it.

There are three other factors in every shot that we must calculate.

1) Shot, or Cue Speed - I encourage also a consistent tempo, with a slight pause on the backswing to really feel that your shot speed is consistent,

2) Cue Ball Targeting - we must decide where we are going to aim ON the cue ball for every shot, I recommend cueing slightly to the inside, and a tip below center on as many shots as you can to develop a strong reference for how THAT type shot reacts.

3) How we aim before we go down on the shot, I recommend using a Center/Center or Center/Edge alignment FIRST.....then create the angle you desire based on that starting point. Your subconscious will end up doing this for you, however, it must have a starting point, or Reference point. The aiming should be done above the shot visually, when you get down to shoot you are better off in a touch/feel mode and "feel the shot with your eyes".

These are some points to consider and even if you aren't using a consistent TOI or TOO, it's still important to understand how to create great tempo. Also there are many aiming techniques but most champions use what I call a Connection Aiming System which I posted last week on the forum, it's easy to find.

This is a great comment by CJ--calling out the exceptions is probably more noteworthy than extolling the virtues (which I am really starting to appreciate). One other exception I would add to the list is cutting when the OB is just off the rail (and more than half a diamond from the pocket). TOI (or center-line, for that matter) will take the OB into the rail, and the shot is lost. Gearing, or even TOO (depending on angle and distance), is the best option in this case, at least for me.
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...cutting when the OB is just off the rail (and more than half a diamond from the pocket). TOI (or center-line, for that matter) will take the OB into the rail, and the shot is lost. Gearing, or even TOO (depending on angle and distance), is the best option in this case, at least for me.
Why not simply aim for a slightly thinner cut to accommodate the throw?

And why does it matter that the OB is close to the rail? With that cut angle you get the same amount of throw anywhere on the table.

pj
chgo
 

zcrash

Diligent Home Player
Gold Member
Why not simply aim for a slightly thinner cut to accommodate the throw?

And why does it matter that the OB is close to the rail? With that cut angle you get the same amount of throw anywhere on the table.

You may very well be right on this (I'm no physics major), but the margin for error is certainly reduced, at least for me. Now when the OB is actually touching the rail, I generally shoot into the rail with inside (different than TOI), if enough angle. If not enough angle, then I'm just hosed (not good enough to be otherwise :wink:).
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You may very well be right on this (I'm no physics major), but the margin for error is certainly reduced, at least for me. Now when the OB is actually touching the rail, I generally shoot into the rail with inside (different than TOI), if enough angle. If not enough angle, then I'm just hosed (not good enough to be otherwise :wink:).
Whatever works for you, I guess...

Hitting off center adds variables - I like to minimize variables.

pj
chgo
 
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