Toupee Jay!!

[jay helfert]

Keith was not in a class by himself in loving action so much that sleep was a mere secondary thought. As most of you older scuffs and players know, Louie Roberts, sat on the front row of that class with Keith. In 1980 I was in Freddy’s joint, Northshore Billiards, watching Louie give Bernie Schwartz the 7 and the last 3. I had money in with Bernie only because Louie was just starting his third day. Steve Oaks and I had made road trips together and never gambled with each other until he walked in and asked me what was going on. I told him Louie was giving Bernie the 7 and the last 3 and I was in with Bernie. Steve told me, in so many words, that I was an idiot. He asked if I had ever seen Louie in dead stroke. I told him I had but that Louie was on the third day and that’s the only reason I liked Bernie’s action. Steve asked if I wanted another $100 on the next set? Having a clear conscious about telling him how long Louie had been up, I said sure. Bernie wins that set and the next and Louie was off trying to borrow more money, with no success. Steve and I still talk when we see each other but that smile he use to have when he saw me is now missing.

I like your side of that bet too. Bernie gambled real good, and even Louie in dead stroke shouldn't be giving up more than the 7. I never heard of anyone giving that kind of weight to Bernie.

 

[ribdoner]

Keith was not in a class by himself in loving action so much that sleep was a mere secondary thought. As most of you older scuffs and players know, Louie Roberts, sat on the front row of that class with Keith. In 1980 I was in Freddy’s joint, Northshore Billiards, watching Louie give Bernie Schwartz the 7 and the last 3. I had money in with Bernie only because Louie was just starting his third day. Steve Oaks and I had made road trips together and never gambled with each other until he walked in and asked me what was going on. I told him Louie was giving Bernie the 7 and the last 3 and I was in with Bernie. Steve told me, in so many words, that I was an idiot. He asked if I had ever seen Louie in dead stroke. I told him I had but that Louie was on the third day and that’s the only reason I liked Bernie’s action. Steve asked if I wanted another $100 on the next set? Having a clear conscious about telling him how long Louie had been up, I said sure. Bernie wins that set and the next and Louie was off trying to borrow more money, with no success. Steve and I still talk when we see each other but that smile he use to have when he saw me is now missing.

Bill,

Something tells me that LOUIE gave one of the good INDY players the 5, Can you confirm?

On the side....

Jay,

Did you ever go by the name of ROGER when you were running the roads?

 

[Fatboy]

Thanks, Jay. Very good read. Did you ever make any of the Greenway tournaments in Baton Rouge? You were the topic of many discussions there. I remember James Christopher always having a smile on his face when you were being discussed. I even remember his girlfriend at the time, Kathy Key, speaking of you. James met her in LA where she was from. If you ever knew Kathy you would never forget her. Seems like Popcorn and James were laughing and telling stories of your exploits. Bottom line is all the talk I ever heard in the south about you there always seemed to be smiling when your name came up.

i walked into that joint in 86 @ 1am(Greenway), not knowing what to expect, wow it was a gladiator acadamy, some guy named Buster Merchant was playing another guy 10 ahead for $1000 both got to the hill several times, I left at 9 am it was even and they were in the parking lot arguing about something, it was a great pool room, back then I couldnt play welll enough to make a game, I would have taken a shot and probaly got beat when i was playing my best. i was never a great player, but I wasnt afraid to take a shot, even having the worst of it just for the experience, and it did paid off in the long run. Balls over brains.

 

[Fatboy]

When it comes to gambling, there are usually three sides to a story. In this instance, it is yours, Keith's, and the truth as it pertains to being "pounded."

As it was told to me, you approached Keith to play some AFTER you observed Keith gambling with others for 3 days in a row in which he had no sleep. It was this instance in which you enjoyed the alleged pounding.

Keith accepted your kind proposition, even though he had not slept for 3 days, and he suffered the consequences. Had Keith been fresh as a daisy and not been up for 3 days in a row gambling with others, I'm not so sure the outcome of the match you refer to would have been a pounding. That's Keith's story, as relayed to me, and I'm sticking with it.

JAM

I have awalys liked Keith, never spoke to him much but listing to him is more fun, he has too much gamble in him sometimes. I watched him walk into the poolroom in Vegas one night, God only know how many days Keith had been up, he was playing something in the casions because he hadnt been in any pool rooms around town, He got someone to back him playing 9-ball for $700 playing something like 5 ahead, I cant remember who he played but he lost 2 sets only winning one rack in less than an hour. He got ran over, but he showed the heart of a lion. He was so exhausted he couldnt move but that didnt stop him from trying.

 

[JAM]

I have awalys liked Keith, never spoke to him much but listing to him is more fun, he has too much gamble in him sometimes. I watched him walk into the poolroom in Vegas one night, God only know how many days Keith had been up, he was playing something in the casions because he hadnt been in any pool rooms around town, He got someone to back him playing 9-ball for $700 playing something like 5 ahead, I cant remember who he played but he lost 2 sets only winning one rack in less than an hour. He got ran over, but he showed the heart of a lion. He was so exhausted he couldnt move but that didnt stop him from trying.

If there was ever any action in the joint, I don't think anybody could have stopped Keith, no matter what the circumstance.

I am reminded of when Jay Helfert, Keith, and Cecil Tugwell were traveling in Jay's van on their way to a tournament in Reno. They were in some mountains, and the weather was absolutely treacherous. A brutal snow blizzard was bad enough, but the roads were slick as ice.

Cecil asked Jay to pull over in the middle of this blizzard because he had to take a leak. Keith was snoozing in the back of the van. While Jay and Cecil were outside taking care of business, an Army truck was traveling down the mountain road and lost control, slamming right into the back of Jay's van where Keith was sleeping.

The only physical injuries Keith suffered were a separated shoulder and a severely sprained finger, the finger of his bridge hand, though he told me that he thought he was in shock a bit.

Allen Hopkins was Keith's first round in Reno. Keith was in extreme pain from the accident, but he prevailed and beat Allen 9 to 2. After the match, Keith went up to Jay and said, "How do you like me now, Toupee?" Neither rain, sleet, or snow could keep these guys away from that tournament, to include the action. It was Reno or bust, and that's the way it was!

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

Bill,

Something tells me that LOUIE gave one of the good INDY players the 5, Can you confirm?

On the side....

Jay,

Did you ever go by the name of ROGER when you were running the roads?

That's Roger Estelle, almost my twin brother.

 

[jay helfert]

If there was ever any action in the joint, I don't think anybody could have stopped Keith, no matter what the circumstance.

I am reminded of when Jay Helfert, Keith, and Cecil Tugwell were traveling in Jay's van on their way to a tournament in Reno. They were in some mountains, and the weather was absolutely treacherous. A brutal snow blizzard was bad enough, but the roads were slick as ice.

Cecil asked Jay to pull over in the middle of this blizzard because he had to take a leak. Keith was snoozing in the back of the van. While Jay and Cecil were outside taking care of business, an Army truck was traveling down the mountain road and lost control, slamming right into the back of Jay's van where Keith was sleeping.

The only physical injuries Keith suffered were a separated shoulder and a severely sprained finger, the finger of his bridge hand, though he told me that he thought he was in shock a bit.

Allen Hopkins was Keith's first round in Reno. Keith was in extreme pain from the accident, but he prevailed and beat Allen 9 to 2. After the match, Keith went up to Jay and said, "How do you like me now, Toupee?" Neither rain, sleet, or snow could keep these guys away from that tournament, to include the action. It was Reno or bust, and that's the way it was!

JAM

That was a major accident. The Army duece and a half hit us at about 40 to 45 mph. We were all (except Cecil) back in the van when it happened. we all got hurt, but Keith the worst. He was kneeling in front between the two high backed seats when we got hit. The force of the crash sent him flying to the back of the van and into the rear doors.

We were lucky that we got hit directly in the back of the van. It caved in the van about three feet and that absorbed some of the blow. Bill Mielke and I were in the two high backed front seats. Our bodies broke the back of both seats, and we both had stiff necks for a week or so. Lucky for us they were high backed seats. Otherwise, it would have been two broken necks.

Another interesting thing was that somehow the media got wind of this accident and it was all over the California news (radio and TV) for the next day or so. "California State Pool champion injured in highway accident". The CHP must have released this information. I told the officer who we were. I was the TD and Keith, Cecil and Bill were all champion pool players.

I sued the U.S. government (try that sometime) and eventually got a check for the value of the van. They never gave us a dime for medical bills or anything else. Danny Medina bought the battered van from me in Reno. It still ran, but would only go about 40 mph. He took it back to Denver and got it fixed up and drove it for years afterward.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Jay!

This is Bob Olson. We use to play a litte 20 years ago at Bob' Billards in Anahiem. Good to hear from you. I must say your the best tournament director in the country. Class, Class and more Class is all I need to say about you. I'm living in Vancouver, WA now. I run around with Ken Dodd (Artisa Kenny) and he's now 70 years old. HE CAN STILL PLAY LIGHTS OUT! If your ever up in the Portland, OR area please email me so we can play some more!!!

 

[jay helfert]

This is Bob Olson. We use to play a litte 20 years ago at Bob' Billards in Anahiem. Good to hear from you. I must say your the best tournament director in the country. Class, Class and more Class is all I need to say about you. I'm living in Vancouver, WA now. I run around with Ken Dodd (Artisa Kenny) and he's now 70 years old. HE CAN STILL PLAY LIGHTS OUT! If your ever up in the Portland, OR area please email me so we can play some more!!!

Ask Kenny about when he stopped by the Cue Ball in Bakersfield to hustle me. We played 9-Ball Banks for $75 a game, pretty good bet for 30 odd years ago. Tell him I'll give him a rematch next time i'm up that way.

I remember you Bob. We played something like 5 or 10 dollar 9-Ball, right? A short session as I recall. Did I win or donate?

Thanks for the kind words Bob.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Jay!

I have to admit you "educated" on the game of 9 Ball! I will ask Kenny later today about the other game. Your a great guy and player and didn't mind donating to you.

 

[hemicudas]

Tournament Directors

Jay, I have had many players over the years tell me they thought you were the best TD ever and this is by no means meant to start a debate but one of my favorite TD’s was Floyd Baxter. Were you ever around any of the tournaments Floyd ran? I have done some stuff with Floyd years ago and though you could not count on his playing ability to remain the same, LOL, you could always be assured of getting a perfect count.

 

[Fatboy]

This is Bob Olson. We use to play a litte 20 years ago at Bob' Billards in Anahiem. Good to hear from you. I must say your the best tournament director in the country. Class, Class and more Class is all I need to say about you. I'm living in Vancouver, WA now. I run around with Ken Dodd (Artisa Kenny) and he's now 70 years old. HE CAN STILL PLAY LIGHTS OUT! If your ever up in the Portland, OR area please email me so we can play some more!!!

i made a small score in there one night, I walked in flashed about $2000 and got into some $50 then $100 action, I was playing way over my head but managed to win around $300, which considering my level of play was pretty good. I liked that room, I awalys hit the balls good in there.

 

[ribdoner]

One loser? I booked a jillion losers. But thats because I barred nobody, and played all day, every day, and everywhere. I did my share of "jelly" in those days, so playing 12 to 14 hours a day was the norm. You think a daily diet of Jimmy Reid, Jimmy Marino, Cecil Tugwell, Ronnie Allen, Black Nate, Black Iceman, Crying Sam Crotcher and an assortment of the Mexican monsters at Daisy Mae's is going to produce all winners? Jay can back me up on this because he took me to a lot of the spots. He usually, prudently, didnt want any of my action because I so seldom played suckers and was only looking to gunfight. Looking back, he was probably secretly in with them. Ha ha. You can confess now, Jay.
Johnny Zaksas is still a top banker and I play in his joint periodically. However, good as he played, Johnny only played on the South Side, seldom traveled anywhere, and ducked me the whole time I was a top banker. In those days I used to brag that I was the best white banker in Chicago in an effort to rile up guys like John to come and try to knock me off. Best white banker was the best I could do, because the black bankers were, Bugs, Cannonball, Romberg, Youngblood, Johnny Boy Skinner, Tough Tony Brewer, Piggy Banks, and Howard the Coward Meechum, a murderous bank lineup.
Zaksas patience paid off, as he now plays me 10 to 8, $20 a game and I have no chance.

the Beard

Although I was in an extented hiatus from pool in the early 70's I heard about a good player by the name of FREDDIE the BANKER. Could you beat him

 

[hemicudas]

Although I was in an extented hiatus from pool in the early 70's I heard about a good player by the name of FREDDIE the BANKER. Could you beat him

The first time Freddy The Beard was pointed out to me he was reffered to as Freddy The Banker by the guy I was with. How bout it, Freddy?

 

[Fatboy]

If there was ever any action in the joint, I don't think anybody could have stopped Keith, no matter what the circumstance.


JAM

Keith got ran over like a frieght train that night, he one one rack as I recall, but it was only because he had been up for days, hell he hardly knew where or what he was doing, someone on the rail put him into the game, I think he played Joe(cant remember his last name) he was a big fat guy that worked at cue-/topia Fred Guarrenos room-oits closed now. Joe is a great player but not in keith's league he only beat him because Keith wasnt in any shape to play. But he tried his best like I said he has a huge heart and balls to back it up. It just wasnt his night and it was a free roll for Keith.

 

[vagabond]

Steve Oaks and I had made road trips together and never gambled with each other until he walked in and asked me what was going on. I told him Louie was giving

hi hemicudas,
I bet 99 % of AZB posters do not know who Steve Oaks is. You need to tell little bit about that insurance sales man from Indianapolis. By the way one time Middle town whitey`s son clashed with steve in executive billiards in Indianapolis and got badly bruised,tucked the tail between the legs and went back to his home in Ohio.

 

[vagabond]

he showed the heart of a lion. He was so exhausted he couldnt move but that didnt stop him from trying.

That is what the people born under the zodiac sign of Aries are.keith is an Aries.They are very courageous,dare devil kind of people.They do not back down and they fight till their last drop of the blood.

 

[hemicudas]

Steve Oaks and I had made road trips together and never gambled with each other until he walked in and asked me what was going on. I told him Louie was giving

hi hemicudas,
I bet 99 % of AZB posters do not know who Steve Oaks is. You need to tell little bit about that insurance sales man from Indianapolis. By the way one time Middle town whitey`s son clashed with steve in executive billiards in Indianapolis and got badly bruised,tucked the tail between the legs and went back to his home in Ohio.

Steve Oaks', speed in the 70s was in the top 20 players on earth, Vagabond. Some of you might remember Richie Austin from Memphis for the way he played, rather than where he ended up. Steve Oaks gave Richie the 7 ball every time he was in town and Richie has yet to book a winner. Louie Roberts, played Richie the same way and Richie won a few times playing Louie.

Steve was a 7 on an APA team, Oak's Strokes, that went to Vegas a few years ago and did pretty well. It's amazing the caliber of players that Larry and Terry allowed to play in their, "Amateur", league.

 

[matthew]

Great stories. I enjoyed reading them.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, I have had many players over the years tell me they thought you were the best TD ever and this is by no means meant to start a debate but one of my favorite TD’s was Floyd Baxter. Were you ever around any of the tournaments Floyd ran? I have done some stuff with Floyd years ago and though you could not count on his playing ability to remain the same, LOL, you could always be assured of getting a perfect count.

Floyd Baxter is a good man, who I am proud to call a friend. If he was in my neck of the woods, I would have loved to have him by my side at any tournament.