Tournament Opinions Please

StevenPWaldon said:
If the tour you're helping out with has sponsors, you may want to run this idea by them.
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Speaking of sponsors... Any tour with multiple sponsors can benefit from this suggestion. Give each tour stop a title sponsor. Yes, the tours themselves have title sponsors, but there is nothing wrong with titling each stop as well. For example, the Predator 9Ball Tour at Masters Billiards Presented by "Insert Sponsor here". This is very common throughout sports. I know one of the hardest part of dealing with pool sponsors is that they are reluctant to hand over hard cash. Maybe for each stop, that title sponsor offers non-cash gifts/prizes. So, maybe the top 10 finishers or whatever cash out, and then the next 10-20 get free products or discounts. It's a great way to promote the involvement of that sponsor, increase advertising during each event and provide business to the sponsor on the back end. AND most importantly to this thread, it provides more incentive for the players! Just a thought...:D
 
GG11 said:
... What do you wish more tours offered ....
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Here's my request: make the format single elimination with buy-back. Here's how it works:

First day: You draw players into groups of 8. Each group plays single elimination straight through with minimal pauses. If you win your group, you're in the money and come back the next day. If you finish second in your group of 8, you get a free buy-back (or your money back). The other six losers in the group can buy back if they want to play some more. As soon as you have 8 players who buy back, start another group. A variation of the re-draw is described below. Stop the buy-backs when things have died down so much that you might not be able to fill a group or at the announced time. If you don't fill the last group of 8, that's OK, someone gets a break.

Second day: The group winners go on the big board in fully seeded order which means the players who qualified first get the first chance at a bye. You play single elimination. Make the matches longer if you like, since you don't have the waiting around that a double-elimination tournament has.

Options: If you have a calcutta, you could either wait to the second day or have one on each day. If you have really avid players, you could start some groups of 8 the morning of the second day, but without the possibility of buy-back. Allow an unlimited number of buy-backs until the close-off time.

Option for the redraws: This may be necessary if you have a good player in the buy-back group that people want to avoid by waiting to re-enter later. As soon as you have four people buy back, draw them onto a sheet for 8. Wait until you have 8 additional players and draw four of them onto the sheet in the open positions. Draw the next four onto a new sheet and wait for 8 more buy-backs to fill it out.

Suppose you have 90 players and 16 tables. Do your first draw as soon as you have 32 bodies in the room, and start them playing. You don't have to wait for the others to show up. As people lose and buy back, and as other people show up, you form new groups of 8. If you play a race to 6, and start at noon and run the first day until about 8PM, you have time for 168 matches. That's enough to qualify 24 players for the finals with a total of 192 entries including buy-backs. With 24 in the finals, you would play 8 matches in the first round with 8 byes, and then 8-4-2-1 for a total of only five rounds. This would allow you to have longer matches, maybe a race to 11 if you schedule an hour and a half per match.

If you charge $25/entry -- remember that it's single elimination, mostly -- you would have about $4800 prizes before any added money.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Here's my request: make the format single elimination with buy-back. Here's how it works:

First day: You draw players into groups of 8. Each group plays single elimination straight through with minimal pauses. If you win your group, you're in the money and come back the next day. If you finish second in your group of 8, you get a free buy-back (or your money back). The other six losers in the group can buy back if they want to play some more. As soon as you have 8 players who buy back, start another group. A variation of the re-draw is described below. Stop the buy-backs when things have died down so much that you might not be able to fill a group or at the announced time. If you don't fill the last group of 8, that's OK, someone gets a break.

Second day: The group winners go on the big board in fully seeded order which means the players who qualified first get the first chance at a bye. You play single elimination. Make the matches longer if you like, since you don't have the waiting around that a double-elimination tournament has.

Options: If you have a calcutta, you could either wait to the second day or have one on each day. If you have really avid players, you could start some groups of 8 the morning of the second day, but without the possibility of buy-back. Allow an unlimited number of buy-backs until the close-off time.

Option for the redraws: This may be necessary if you have a good player in the buy-back group that people want to avoid by waiting to re-enter later. As soon as you have four people buy back, draw them onto a sheet for 8. Wait until you have 8 additional players and draw four of them onto the sheet in the open positions. Draw the next four onto a new sheet and wait for 8 more buy-backs to fill it out.

Suppose you have 90 players and 16 tables. Do your first draw as soon as you have 32 bodies in the room, and start them playing. You don't have to wait for the others to show up. As people lose and buy back, and as other people show up, you form new groups of 8. If you play a race to 6, and start at noon and run the first day until about 8PM, you have time for 168 matches. That's enough to qualify 24 players for the finals with a total of 192 entries including buy-backs. With 24 in the finals, you would play 8 matches in the first round with 8 byes, and then 8-4-2-1 for a total of only five rounds. This would allow you to have longer matches, maybe a race to 11 if you schedule an hour and a half per match.

If you charge $25/entry -- remember that it's single elimination, mostly -- you would have about $4800 prizes before any added money.
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I like your idea of keeping the entry fee low.
 
I can't play anymore for health reasons but I will voice my opinion for what it's worth. I would like to see the pro's that run some of the tours NOT play in them. Two or three of the tours have between 20 and 30% of the purse money in the pro pocket that's running the tour by the end of the season, in addition to what they make running the tour.

Most on here will not agree with this because they play on the tours and don't want to PO the pro that runs it. Then others will say it's good to match up against a pro. Fine, I agree, so go to just about any poolroom or tournament where pros are and donate in cheap sets.

I know everyone doesn't agree with this but many who would play on the small tours don't for that reason but will only voice their opinion in private. Look at how much of the purse goes back to the pro's that are running them at the end of the season. Just a little math we tell the story. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I can't play anymore for health reasons but I will voice my opinion for what it's worth. I would like to see the pro's that run some of the tours NOT play in them. Two or three of the tours have between 20 and 30% of the purse money in the pro pocket that's running the tour by the end of the season, in addition to what they make running the tour.

Most on here will not agree with this because they play on the tours and don't want to PO the pro that runs it. Then others will say it's good to match up against a pro. Fine, I agree, so go to just about any poolroom or tournament where pros are and donate in cheap sets.

I know everyone doesn't agree with this but many who would play on the small tours don't for that reason but will only voice their opinion in private. Look at how much of the purse goes back to the pro's that are running them at the end of the season. Just a little math we tell the story. Johnnyt
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I'm glad you noted that not everyone would agree with this statement. I'm not certain how much each tour director makes for the various tours, but I know for certain that there are some (cough cough ... Tony Robles .. cough ahem ...) are making very very little for spending 2 full 12 hour days at a stop on top of the many many hours spent promoting, organizing, planning, and meeting with sponsors, rooms,etc. And a pro that is putting all this time and energy into an event that basically is for the benefit of ALL the players, shouldn't have to sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else enjoy the fruits of his/her labor.

On top of that, you definitely gave many many reasons why people like to see a pro, even the tour owner, play in the events. For promotional purposes alone it's important.

I can see where you are coming from JohnnyT, don't get me wrong, and I'm sure there are tours out there that take a hefty portion of the funds given or made in a tour and pocket that money instead of dishing it out the the players that earn it, and then place in the money of the event as well, but not all of them do that. And so long as a tourney is run in a fair, nonrigged fashion, whoever shoots straight, plays great and wins the tourney should get a payday, even if it is the owner of the tour.

JMHO
 
GG11 said:
On top of that, you definitely gave many many reasons why people like to see a pro, even the tour owner, play in the events. For promotional purposes alone it's important.


JMHO
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GG11, I read this thread yesterday and didn't respond, because I really don't have any suggestions on how to improve the tour. It's already the best one around.

I understand what Johnny is saying, but there is no reason to make the pro running the tour sit on the sidelines. As a "B" player, I understand that that my odds of cashing are pretty thin, but just being able to play in that talent pool is enough of an honor in itself.

Believe me, if I draw Tony (or Ginky, or Frankie, or Thorston, or Mika, etc.) in the first round, it would make my day just to be on the same table as them. (Actually it would make my month!)

Good luck, and hopefully I'll see you guys at Comet in a couple of weeks.
 
There have been a lot of great suggestions in this thread... and I know GG11 was looking for as many as possible. I know there are a lot more tournament players lurking around in here with something to say regarding their thoughts on a great tour. Let us here it!

Because of the overwhelming amount of attention placed on boobs around here, I promise to post a half naked female pic as a reward to all who participate:D :D :D Please respond, we want to know what you think!
 
StevenPWaldon said:
Tony Robles's Predator 9-ball Tour has a graduated entry fee scale, and I think it's a great idea. Pros pay $100, A players pay $80, Bs $60, etc. It also has a special entry fee for juniors ($40) which I think is great. For young talent, it's daunting for parents to put up $100 so their kid can get tournament tough. $40 meanwhile, isn't much more than you'd spend on your kid for a weekend doing anything else.

Also, to echo previous posters I like that the Predator tour has class standings. Although the tournaments are open and there is no spot, players in various classes (Pro, A, B, C, D) receive points every tournament and the highest finisher at the end of the season receives a brand new Predator cue. This is great incentive to play in more than one tournament for players who probably won't make it into the money. If the tour you're helping out with has sponsors, you may want to run this idea by them.
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but the predator tour isnt fair where a open player has no shot to win a poy for his class cause of the pro's. they should be separtate classes so the open player has some type of goal.
 
lodini said:
There have been a lot of great suggestions in this thread... and I know GG11 was looking for as many as possible. I know there are a lot more tournament players lurking around in here with something to say regarding their thoughts on a great tour. Let us here it!

Because of the overwhelming amount of attention placed on boobs around here, I promise to post a half naked female pic as a reward to all who participate:D :D :D Please respond, we want to know what you think!
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Ok Lodini, I was going to suggest this before, but didn't want to put you on the hook.
You wanna improve the tour? Tell 'em Lodini's going to be in the house! I think that will bring in at least 10 extra players. Especially those of us on AZB who know who you are.
(I don't need any boobs or half-naked female pics for this, I just wanted to let you know you're appreciated around here!)
 
Jim Kuykendall said:
Mike, I play in the Fast Eddies tournaments in Texas and I agree with almost everything you say. The guys that run the tournament are great, but I think they would ultimately get a bigger turn out if they paid a consistent 25% or more of the field and played til only players in the money came back on Sunday. There are usally about 8 or 10 players who are going to consistently finish in the money. This doesn't leave much for the vast majority of average or a little better players.
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I couldn't agree with more Jim, but, there are a lot of factors that come into play.

I get pretty good heat from Fast Eddies ownership to finsh as early as possible on Saturday as to not interfere with the late crowd. I understand your side of it and have argued the point many times, but in a chain like Fast Eddies with 22 locations, it is difficult to get their attention for very long.

We always pay 25% of the field and 12 !/2 % when we are/were able to have auctions.

I understand the expenses far better than people think as I have paid more of them than anyone on this tours 6 year history

What really threw a wrench into plans was starting on Saturday morning vs. friday night.
 
don't kick people off your tour for winning the points race, when all they did is show up alot never winning a tournament!
Jeremy
 
worldison2 said:
Ok Lodini, I was going to suggest this before, but didn't want to put you on the hook.
You wanna improve the tour? Tell 'em Lodini's going to be in the house! I think that will bring in at least 10 extra players. Especially those of us on AZB who know who you are.
(I don't need any boobs or half-naked female pics for this, I just wanted to let you know you're appreciated around here!)
Click to expand...
That is the sweetest thing ever!!! Thanks, you just made my day:D
 
worldison2 said:
Ok Lodini, I was going to suggest this before, but didn't want to put you on the hook.
You wanna improve the tour? Tell 'em Lodini's going to be in the house! I think that will bring in at least 10 extra players. Especially those of us on AZB who know who you are.
(I don't need any boobs or half-naked female pics for this, I just wanted to let you know you're appreciated around here!)
Click to expand...

Don't believe him, he's looking for the Full Monte:D . Just joking. I too think Lodini is one of the better posters on here. Johnnyt
 
GG11 said:
I'm glad you noted that not everyone would agree with this statement. I'm not certain how much each tour director makes for the various tours, but I know for certain that there are some (cough cough ... Tony Robles .. cough ahem ...) are making very very little for spending 2 full 12 hour days at a stop on top of the many many hours spent promoting, organizing, planning, and meeting with sponsors, rooms,etc. And a pro that is putting all this time and energy into an event that basically is for the benefit of ALL the players, shouldn't have to sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else enjoy the fruits of his/her labor.

On top of that, you definitely gave many many reasons why people like to see a pro, even the tour owner, play in the events. For promotional purposes alone it's important.

I can see where you are coming from JohnnyT, don't get me wrong, and I'm sure there are tours out there that take a hefty portion of the funds given or made in a tour and pocket that money instead of dishing it out the the players that earn it, and then place in the money of the event as well, but not all of them do that. And so long as a tourney is run in a fair, nonrigged fashion, whoever shoots straight, plays great and wins the tourney should get a payday, even if it is the owner of the tour.

JMHO
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I agree with a lot of what you say in favor of them playing. Not 60% but about 50% agree. Then again when I played, all though I loved the game, I played for the money not glory or who I played. This probably made me a bit of a nit...probably?:rolleyes: Johnnyt
 
Mike Templeton said:
I think that one thing to consider is that only about 3% - 5% of the participants have a realistic shot of actually winning the tournament. The rest, like myself, are middle-of-the-pack players. I think that these are the players that you need to try to satisfy as much as possible since they make up the majority of the participation. The very best players, and the lower level players are gonna play regardless of the way the tournament is run. As a middle of the pack player, this is what means most to me:

--Don't make the payouts too top heavy. Pay a little deeper into the field. In most tournaments, I know that I probably can't win, but if I play good, I can get into the money, and at least get a little something to show for my efforts.

--Keep the entry fees reasonable. With gas and hotels eating into out budgets at record paces already, don't try to squeeze me for additional monies for the top 2 or 3 players there. Have a player auction if necessary to make it worth the time of the top players. And I know it may be necessary, but I don't like to have to pay $30 for a tour card when I might only get to play in 1 of the tour's events. I realize that the TDs need to make that money, but please try to make most of it from the room owner and not me.

--If it's a 2 day tournament, only bring back the people who are in the money. It's frustrating to have to spend the night in a hotel and have the other expenses of staying the night out of town only to come back Sunday and not make any money.

These are most important to me.

Mike
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ater
Mike knows something.

If you cater to the top three places, your tour will suffer. Cater to the middle group of players and let the rest of the chips fall where they may.

Be explicit in all of your tournament advertisements.

Use the attached word document to provide similar DETAILED information.

View attachment TOURNAMENT FLYER.doc

The more information you provide the better off you are going to be.

Hiding info like how much the table costs or if any of the money goes toward tournament director fees or any fees is not a good idea.

Discuss the amount of payout, the percentages that will be paid to each place based upon how many players and make sure to mention if there are any catches with the GUARANTEED ADDED MONEY.

Also, detail whether it is GUARANTEED MONEY or GUARANTEED ADDED MONEY and whether or not so many players are needed to meet the guarantee.

Also, I might suggest that you advertise that players who don't want to participate in the Calcutta, will not have their names called. Some people want to play in tournaments but do not want the embarassment of being called upon for the Calcutta. Me, I've got an alligator hide and it is hard to make me blush.

Make it easy for the lesser players to decide to play. Pay deep and don't make the money top heavy like Mike said.

The more you follow these rules, the quicker you will gain a solid following. ADVERTISE these new unique features PRIOR to the tournament and let people know. Get as many people as you can to "COME IN THE MONEY". :D That slogan is GOLDEN!

JoeyA
 
junior718 said:
but the predator tour isnt fair where a open player has no shot to win a poy for his class cause of the pro's. they should be separtate classes so the open player has some type of goal.
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An open player may not have a shot to win POY, but you do have a fair shot placing in the top 10 in each stop which should end up being worth more than a predator cue.

My biggest problem with the Predator tour is some of the dates conflict with Tri-State Tour stops in NYC. I would rather support Tony, but at the same time, Ive built up points in the tri-state and if im playing well, I have a shot at doing well or even winning a tri-state.
 
cleary said:
An open player may not have a shot to win POY, but you do have a fair shot placing in the top 10 in each stop which should end up being worth more than a predator cue.
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Well for a 2 day tournament it is only worthwhile if you place in the top 3.
4th place got back $350 i believe for a 84 man field? Minus the $100 entry and other expenses its not really worth it. Why should a player travel to this tournament and do so good and not get anything to show for it. The money should be spread out a little better. I have place 4th in a Joss with 38 players and got back $500.
 
Payout percentages for 64 players paying 25% of the field:

25, 16, 12, 9, 5, 5, 4,4, 3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-12, 13-16.

These are approximate percentages and should of course be rounded off. I think 13-16 should pay back entry fee as a minimum.

JoeyA
 
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